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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 09:33:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Not to be negative but 4e? Why?
Because WotC like gold pieces as much as our adventurers do? |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 23:57:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Not to be negative but 4e? Why?
Because WotC like gold pieces as much as our adventurers do?
That's the real reason for it... and almost any other business decision in the real world.
There were so many D&D 3e and 3.5e sourcebooks and third party D20 and OGL products that it eventually dilutes the sales of the core product. And all these are based on the three essentials (PHB, DMG, and MM) that are readily available for free. Its hard to sell those books when everyone either has them or uses the D20 SRD.
So there's the popular excuse that there's "too much" 3e material out there making the rules overly convoluted and in need of revision and simplification... 4e solves that "problem" by making all previous material useless. Meanwhile, the players are left wanting certain classes and races and other options because only so much can go into an initial sourcebook. This leaves WotC with the potential to sell more new sourcebooks later by including the material everyone's been waiting for... of course, over time, they'll just paint themselves into the same corner again having "too much" material making the rules as convoluted as before.
Rinse. Repeat. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 01:24:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
There were so many D&D 3e and 3.5e sourcebooks and third party D20 and OGL products that it eventually dilutes the sales of the core product. And all these are based on the three essentials (PHB, DMG, and MM) that are readily available for free. Its hard to sell those books when everyone either has them or uses the D20 SRD.
I don't think any of this was a factor... Gamers like to buy books, and most gamers can't conveniently set up a computer for each gaming session -- so the SRD, while nice, didn't kill sales.
And the OGL was brilliant, because it meant everybody could make games using the same rules -- so even if you weren't playing regular D&D, you still needed the books, and if you got into something else D20 before D&D, you could quite easily get into D&D. The OGL basically made D20 the ruleset for RPGs, so any playing any RPG could hook someone on D&D, and vice-versa.
No, what dilutes the sales is when you flood the market with 8001 other "core" books from one company. What dilutes sales is not giving the customers what they want. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 04:09:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Not to be negative but 4e? Why?
Because WotC like gold pieces as much as our adventurers do?
They like them even more than that I'm afraid. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 05:04:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
They like them even more than that I'm afraid.
They're supposed to like them. If 4e makes them more money than they could have made by continuing in some other vein with 3e, then they made the right decision, both for the company and the majority of their customers. The money we spend on the products is our vote on how well we like them. If 4e does well, that means it's making the customers happy. I don't think it is, and I don't think it will. I know it's not making me happy, and I'm casting my vote accordingly.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 16:15:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
No, what dilutes the sales is when you flood the market with 8001 other "core" books from one company. What dilutes sales is not giving the customers what they want.
And, assuming 4e doesn't flop for losing a significant portion of hardcore 3e players, you don't think they won't keep adding sourcebooks to 4e to get themselves into the same situation? The way I see it, they started out with the business model to do so by excluding content that from the PHB that players wanted right from the start but seem willing to wait for. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 17:19:01
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I've noticed an increase in local game-day attendance with people who have never played D&D before. As an example, where 1-3 tables would have existed in our local gaming shop before on any given game-day. Now, 3-5 have been persistent since the release of 4E. I still see 3.X tables being played from time to time and even the random AD&D table.
I think that when there are any changes to a game system, you will always leave people behind. The key is bringing in new business and inspiring new (and often younger) crowds.
Heck, I still know a few hardcore 2E players that think 3E+ is horrid and will refuse to play :D |
Edited by - Matt James on 31 Jan 2009 17:20:27 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 17:42:37
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| Well, most gamers I know have not turned 4E, simply because they have spent lots of money on 3,x material and are quite settled in their respective settings, be it the FR or Eberron. And AFAIK most of these gamers are not exactly 100% against 4E as such, but what "it" did to the FR. So they not just annoyed the 3,xE community, but large parts of the FR community too, whether 1E, AD&A or 3,xE. We'll have to see what will happen to Eberron later this year. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 18:06:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I think that when there are any changes to a game system, you will always leave people behind. The key is bringing in new business and inspiring new (and often younger) crowds.
But why does that require a new edition? Why can't they simply promote the product better? I might be wrong, but it appears to me that the only places they advertise are bookstores and gaming magazines. So bringing out a new edition lets them put up a bigger display in the bookstore, and that attracts more interest. Why not look for more direct ways to advertise to their target audience?
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
Edited by - ErskineF on 31 Jan 2009 18:09:44 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 18:47:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I think that when there are any changes to a game system, you will always leave people behind. The key is bringing in new business and inspiring new (and often younger) crowds.
But why does that require a new edition? Why can't they simply promote the product better? I might be wrong, but it appears to me that the only places they advertise are bookstores and gaming magazines. So bringing out a new edition lets them put up a bigger display in the bookstore, and that attracts more interest. Why not look for more direct ways to advertise to their target audience?
Well, I am not privy to their business intelligence information. But, I am sure they saw something where they thought they could increase their sales, etc...
As it relates to the new edition, I have no major issues with it. I think it is fun to play and I enjoy the group tactics. As for the flavor of storyline, especially as it relates to FR, I believe they knew there was going to be backlash from it (i.e. spellplague). I think it was a calculated risk and that whether we like it or not, it is here to stay. This is my pragmatic view on the situation, I am in no way advocating or condoning what they did as I've kept the frame of mind that this is a business first, and fantasy world second.
Edit: Spelling |
Edited by - Matt James on 31 Jan 2009 18:48:41 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 23:23:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
No, what dilutes the sales is when you flood the market with 8001 other "core" books from one company. What dilutes sales is not giving the customers what they want.
And, assuming 4e doesn't flop for losing a significant portion of hardcore 3e players, you don't think they won't keep adding sourcebooks to 4e to get themselves into the same situation? The way I see it, they started out with the business model to do so by excluding content that from the PHB that players wanted right from the start but seem willing to wait for.
I didn't say that.... They did it with 2E and 3.x, so of course they'll oversaturate the market with 4E. The only question is how long its going to take before sales fall off from this doing that... And considering the number of folks that are refusing to touch 4E, I think we'll see 5E in 5 years or less time. Maybe closer to 3. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 06:02:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I've kept the frame of mind that this is a business first, and fantasy world second.
I'd be the last person to disagree with that. Businessmen don't automatically know what's in their best interests though. They're human like the rest of us, and sometimes their calculations are way off. I think this will turn out to be one of those times.
There was a lot of kicking when FR3 came out, but by not using an RSE to introduce the changes they were able to tell people, "Don't worry. Nothing's changed except the rules behind the scenes. All your FR2 books are still useable." And it was true, because FR2 source books were very heavy on lore, and very light on stat blocks and rules-stuff.
That's not true of FR3 though. If you take out the feats, spells, and PrCs, what you mostly have left is a rehash of stuff that was already printed in FR2. To say that there's maybe 5-10% new lore in the books would be generous. Even if they weren't making that little bit of lore obsolete by advancing the timeline forward 100 yrs, by ditching the rule system they've made all of the FR3 books worthless. That means they've created a situation in which their hardcore, long-time fans can't afford to buy into the new system. The more of our money we've given them in the past, the less likely we are to follow them into the future. Is that smart?
They've shown us very clearly just how much they value our investment in their product. They couldn't put themselves into our shoes for two seconds and think, "Here's a guy with a wife, a family, a mortgage, doctor's bills... He's spent at least a couple thousand dollars on our products in the past. How is he going to react if we ask him to nullify that investment by switching to a new edition in a completely revised campaign setting?" Do the guys who make the decisions think we're all living in our mother's basement, with nothing to do with our Jiffy-Mart paychecks but spend it on the latest game stuff?
If they had stayed with third edition, and come out with a new setting, call it FR1470, they could have filled those hundred years with whatever they wanted to, and fans would have bought it. I know FR fans--they can't help themselves. Combining the two, though, was a total deal breaker. I think they're going to find that out the hard way.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 10:26:24
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
They've shown us very clearly just how much they value our investment in their product. They couldn't put themselves into our shoes for two seconds and think, "Here's a guy with a wife, a family, a mortgage, doctor's bills... He's spent at least a couple thousand dollars on our products in the past. How is he going to react if we ask him to nullify that investment by switching to a new edition in a completely revised campaign setting?" Do the guys who make the decisions think we're all living in our mother's basement, with nothing to do with our Jiffy-Mart paychecks but spend it on the latest game stuff?
If they had stayed with third edition, and come out with a new setting, call it FR1470, they could have filled those hundred years with whatever they wanted to, and fans would have bought it. I know FR fans--they can't help themselves. Combining the two, though, was a total deal breaker. I think they're going to find that out the hard way.
I second all that you've said.
If $E had been presented as an evolution and the Realms had been seen to have been updated (in terms of showing the conclusions of story-lines and the re-drawing of political boundaries) then they could have prevented a lot of acrimony. Instead, its out with the old and in with the new. Some who like the older versions of the Realms will look at the newest edition and see it as fun challenge. Good for them.  However, I look at my bookshelves and think what use are these source-books now. Why should I stop my 18 month old daughter scribbling in the Grand History of the Realms or the 3rd Edition Campaign Guide when they are no longer relevant?
To return to the "businesses have to make money" argument. No-one disputes that. But do they have to make money in such a cack-handed way? Why annoy loyal customers for the sake of new customers? Why swap one set of customers for another? Why not build on what you have and attract more customers?
I could go on asking questions but it's a pointless exercise. The decisions have been made, and nothing I say or do (or nothing that I said and did) will be heard. I suppose this post is merely a form of therapy. Still, at least my daughter has lots of colouring paper now - even if it is very expensive.
Edited for spelling. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 01 Feb 2009 10:28:12 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 14:44:33
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
They've shown us very clearly just how much they value our investment in their product. They couldn't put themselves into our shoes for two seconds and think, "Here's a guy with a wife, a family, a mortgage, doctor's bills... He's spent at least a couple thousand dollars on our products in the past. How is he going to react if we ask him to nullify that investment by switching to a new edition in a completely revised campaign setting?" Do the guys who make the decisions think we're all living in our mother's basement, with nothing to do with our Jiffy-Mart paychecks but spend it on the latest game stuff?
This is true. But there were also very loud (although not as numerous) complaints on their own forums that the Realms needed changing. Even though, IMO, these complainers were in the minority, WotC took a look at the feedback from the forums and acted on it. "Squeaky wheel gets the grease"-type of thing. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 14:49:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Why annoy loyal customers for the sake of new customers? Why swap one set of customers for another? Why not build on what you have and attract more customers?
This is my biggest complaint, too. I understand and quite agree with wanting to attract new customers. But it seems counter-productive to me to throw away a lot of dedicated customers in favor of customers that are going to buy a handful of products and then move on to something different.
Intro'ing the Shattered Realms as a new setting would have done so much better. They would have had the new customers, and with it being a new setting, they'd have gotten a lot of the old customers, too. Instead, they opted to make us feel that all of our old lore was now useless. They counted on us being blindly loyal to the brand, and now (I hope) they're realizing that was a mistake.
It seems to me that this is a reflection of the modern business world: don't worry about making a buck tomorrow, make a buck now. And if making a buck now prevents making a buck tomorrow, oh well, we'll worry about that then. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 14:53:23
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-Aint that the Truth Ashe. I was complining about somethings at work and guess what happens. I get a project. Truely the squeaky wheel gets the grease. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 14:56:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
They've shown us very clearly just how much they value our investment in their product. They couldn't put themselves into our shoes for two seconds and think, "Here's a guy with a wife, a family, a mortgage, doctor's bills... He's spent at least a couple thousand dollars on our products in the past. How is he going to react if we ask him to nullify that investment by switching to a new edition in a completely revised campaign setting?" Do the guys who make the decisions think we're all living in our mother's basement, with nothing to do with our Jiffy-Mart paychecks but spend it on the latest game stuff?
This is true. But there were also very loud (although not as numerous) complaints on their own forums that the Realms needed changing. Even though, IMO, these complainers were in the minority, WotC took a look at the feedback from the forums and acted on it. "Squeaky wheel gets the grease"-type of thing.
The Realms have been changing for a while. Change doesn't have to be catastrophic...
I've come up with my own plot that includes Mystra's murder, takes out a number of the Chosen, and replaces her. And my plot does not involved anything as dramatic as magic going awry during the ToT.
I've also been working on a way to intro the dragonborn (under another name). I've got that mostly worked out, save for some details.
Both of my ideas are non-catastrophic, and both of them actually draw on existing lore, at least in part -- that was very important to me.
I did this mostly as an exercise, but to me it proves that they could have made some of the desired changes without blowing up everything or doing a timejump.
And their excuses for why the timejump was necessary means that if the same team is in charge when 5E comes out, they'll feel obligated to blow it up again. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 15:02:26
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Reminds me of the Question I was asking around July/August/September. Would this be happening if the old TSR crew still worked for WotC? I wonder what Steven Schend and Krash would have come up with.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 15:15:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Intro'ing the Shattered Realms as a new setting would have done so much better. They would have had the new customers, and with it being a new setting, they'd have gotten a lot of the old customers, too. Instead, they opted to make us feel that all of our old lore was now useless.
As you suggested, they could have called the new setting Shadow Toril, or my own Counter Toril suggestion. There were a number of ways they could have brought in the new rule-set that could attract new customers and retained their current ones too.
Having a duplicate world where history, geography and religion is a little different could have set a fascinating novel series too.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They counted on us being blindly loyal to the brand, and now (I hope) they're realizing that was a mistake.
Brand loyalty is mostly, in my opinion, due to customers not seeing a reason to change. Rather ironic. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 21:46:59
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I've kept the frame of mind that this is a business first, and fantasy world second.
I'd be the last person to disagree with that. Businessmen don't automatically know what's in their best interests though. They're human like the rest of us, and sometimes their calculations are way off. I think this will turn out to be one of those times.
So... I'm not the only one who remembers the New Coke fiasco, eh? |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 23:18:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
So... I'm not the only one who remembers the New Coke fiasco, eh?
No, and that's a great analogy. Let's hope it has the same happy ending. FR-Classic, anyone? 
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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sneakypetev
Acolyte
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 00:14:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
They've shown us very clearly just how much they value our investment in their product. They couldn't put themselves into our shoes for two seconds and think, "Here's a guy with a wife, a family, a mortgage, doctor's bills... He's spent at least a couple thousand dollars on our products in the past. How is he going to react if we ask him to nullify that investment by switching to a new edition in a completely revised campaign setting?" Do the guys who make the decisions think we're all living in our mother's basement, with nothing to do with our Jiffy-Mart paychecks but spend it on the latest game stuff?
If they had stayed with third edition, and come out with a new setting, call it FR1470, they could have filled those hundred years with whatever they wanted to, and fans would have bought it. I know FR fans--they can't help themselves. Combining the two, though, was a total deal breaker. I think they're going to find that out the hard way.
I second all that you've said.
If $E had been presented as an evolution and the Realms had been seen to have been updated (in terms of showing the conclusions of story-lines and the re-drawing of political boundaries) then they could have prevented a lot of acrimony. Instead, its out with the old and in with the new. Some who like the older versions of the Realms will look at the newest edition and see it as fun challenge. Good for them. However, I look at my bookshelves and think what use are these source-books now. Why should I stop my 18 month old daughter scribbling in the Grand History of the Realms or the 3rd Edition Campaign Guide when they are no longer relevant?
To return to the "businesses have to make money" argument. No-one disputes that. But do they have to make money in such a cack-handed way? Why annoy loyal customers for the sake of new customers? Why swap one set of customers for another? Why not build on what you have and attract more customers?
I could go on asking questions but it's a pointless exercise. The decisions have been made, and nothing I say or do (or nothing that I said and did) will be heard. I suppose this post is merely a form of therapy. Still, at least my daughter has lots of colouring paper now - even if it is very expensive.
Edited for spelling.
You guys have stated my opinion better than I could have, but I would like to add that WoTC could have made more profit,(IMO), by making 4E a seperate game from D&D 3.5. Like a "D&D Basic", lighter on rules, but more use of minis. And they could have continued with or improved upon 3.5. and left the Realms alone.This way they could keep the old fans and introduced a younger/newer group to D&D. And fans of the FR novels would not have had to deal with the huge changes. |
"Go for the eyes boo,go for the eyes!"- Minsc |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 03:47:25
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quote:
Originally posted by sneakypetev
You guys have stated my opinion better than I could have, but I would like to add that WoTC could have made more profit,(IMO), by making 4E a seperate game from D&D 3.5. Like a "D&D Basic", lighter on rules, but more use of minis. And they could have continued with or improved upon 3.5. and left the Realms alone.This way they could keep the old fans and introduced a younger/newer group to D&D. And fans of the FR novels would not have had to deal with the huge changes.
I don't know how much money they would have made off of calling it D&D Basic, but there certainly are better ways that they could have handled it. Ultimately, though, I think they were looking for a way to reboot it because it means another round of initial sales. Initial sales are generally better because people are usually more willing to buy something new, especially if they didn't like the old thing, but are willing to give a new thing a try. WotC probably thought that they could bring in new customers by changing it enough to get people who didn't like it so much before into it, while they thought that their old customers would follow brand loyalty. Honestly, I almost got caught up into 4e because it sounded new and exciting when I first heard about it, but the more I heard about it, the more I realized that it was not a good kind of new. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 10:01:22
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Honestly, I almost got caught up into 4e because it sounded new and exciting when I first heard about it, but the more I heard about it, the more I realized that it was not a good kind of new.
From time to time, I've found myself considering it too. From what I've heard about Healing Surges, Second Winds and the way that hit-points are being treated it sounds like they are moving towards stamina not wounds. To explain a bit further, in earlier editions, hit points were akin to taking wounds, but it seems that now they are more a measure of how long you can keep fighting and dealing damage. It's an approach I've adopted for my home-brew role-playing system and it reminds me of the Fighting Fantasy books.
But then I recall buying the three core books for 3.5 and realising that I'd basically bought the same books. I felt ripped-off and given the short amount of time between 3.5 and the latest edition, it'll feel like a rip-off again. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 14:33:17
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Unfortunately for me, my voice which is anti $e was never heard because I gave it a chance. If I had known I would never have bought the books and got it all off of pirate sites.
So as far as WOTC knows I am perfectly happy with the $e rules set and the new world.
I thought about selling my stuff on EBAY to cancel my vote but I actually want to keep the rules set, I might revisit it with Dark Sun. but the FR...
I would sell that to another person to cancel my vote so to speak.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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D&D 4th edition!
