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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1357 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2016 :  20:49:11  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by Rymac

quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

After all, the blade would be selecting potential King Arthurs for the elves.


That had never occurred to me, although that's what Moonblades do. Taking that analogy further, perhaps a way to reawaken a Moonblade would be seek a sacred place of power, perhaps with the help of that place's guardian. In the obvious example, a lake and its Lady of the Lake.



I think it should be considered that as a group, the moonblades were selecting a king, but they were not individually seeking a king.

By that I mean, it has been established that some of the moonblades were not potential king swords - their wielders needed different skill sets and many if not most of these were not suited to be rulers.




Examples of this can be seen in the other Moonflower moonblades:

When Arilyn drew her blade it was not looking for a potential leader of the elves. It was looking to a defender of the elves. One who would fight for the various elven peoples wherever needed.

The other moonblade was wielded by a cleric in the book, so I'd assume it to have powers that lend themselves to magic and healing. When one drew it, they needed to be qualified for that role, not to lead all elves everywhere.

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BrianDavion
Seeker

71 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2016 :  10:45:40  Show Profile Send BrianDavion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by BrianDavion

I used to know an awesome site for constructing Sindarinn and Qunya elvish names, that unfortunatly seems to have been taken down. no FR doesn't use those languages but handy for creating names that at least SOUNDED right. pity it's gone. :(
By the way, on a seperate tangent, one question that's come to mind from this conversation and I'm curious as to the answer...

How do you intend for us to interpret the historical aspects of the Evermeet novel Elaine, should we view them as "the true events being witnessed" or "the product and writing of Danilo's research, and thus possiably prone to error, misinformation or simply embelishment?





When EVERMEET was being written, editor Brian Thomsen was very clear that he wanted to maintain "deniability" that would allow for future changes and flexible interpretations of the "facts" in the novel. So yes, I think it's best to regard it as Danilo's work, the product of the best information he could get his hands on. He submitted the manuscript to an elven sage for review, but the ms that became the novel is not an approved and revised version. I would say that he has most of the facts right, but he did not have all the facts. And even if he DID, I maintain that all history is fiction, in that facts are, of necessity, selected to shape a narrative. The narrative Danilo constructed was shaped by two things: His desire to give Arilyn the gift of her family story, and the invasion of Evermeet.

Also, some parts of the book were never intended to be taken as historical fact. Dan and I both considered the section on the gods to be mythology and metaphor, not a literal, factual recitation of what transpired in distant times and other planes of existence.

There are essentially three layers of storytelling happening in this novel. It was an ambitious experiment, one that succeeded in some ways, and fell short in others.




thanks Elaine. that was how I sort of interpreted it, and I'd been wondering for years if I was interpreting it right. for the record as a reader I thought it was a great success, it remains to this day one of my favorite FR novels. glad to know I was reading it right.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2016 :  16:19:47  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reposting this response to a question on my Q&S thread about the status of the proposal moonblade project and Reclamation:


The status is "unchanged," which is to say no additional progress has occurred.

Most of my time these days is spent working on a website startup and a nonfiction book. My current fiction project is "Burning," a short story for the anthology HATH NO FURY. There's a Kickstarter going on now, and it's nearly funded.

But I do plan to move forward with a DM Guild project. I think the "Lost Children of Evermeet" might be my best best--it's the most focused and contained of the topics I've pondered--but the research necessary for that will also help with the moonblade project. I don't have a long term schedule, but here are August's tasks, FYI:

* Read through Evermeet, compile info on the Moonflower royal family

* Brief narrative outline for the life story of each of the royal offspring

* Brainstorm possible adventure hooks


The reception to a small project of this nature will give me more info about how the DM Guild works and help me better assess if I can afford to spend the time that a moonblade product would require.

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 16 Aug 2016 16:20:50
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1394 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2016 :  11:52:06  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, very nice! The LOST CHILDREN project also interests me, and any prospect of the MOONBLADES and RECLAMATION advancements, even if slow, makes me very happy! Go on, Mrs. Cunningham, keep us informed!

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2016 :  16:32:49  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

Wow, very nice! The LOST CHILDREN project also interests me, and any prospect of the MOONBLADES and RECLAMATION advancements, even if slow, makes me very happy! Go on, Mrs. Cunningham, keep us informed!



We'll see how "Lost Children" goes. As for moonblades and Reclamation, I'm sort of leaning to combining the two. That way, it would be a lore book with adventure hooks, with fiction for "flavor." Sure, most game products have a few paragraph--or as in the case of the Pathfinder Tales modules, a few pages--of fiction, but who's to say you could add a tad more?
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1357 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2016 :  05:25:17  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've had another thought about the fate aspect of the moonblades.

In your Evermeet novel, it is stated that the magic of the Moonblades would select the ruler after there were only so many left active and that that number had not yet been reached when Zoar was selected by counting blades.

So what if the big reveal of the kingsword has yet to happen?

What if it is another moonblade that is destined to rule and the elves just jumped the gun and will be put on the correct path some time soon?

Wouldn't it be a gas of one of the theoretically possible (debated above) gold elf moonblades or even the tainted Starym blade are the real king sword :P
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1394 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2016 :  01:42:43  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
In your Evermeet novel, it is stated that the magic of the Moonblades would select the ruler after there were only so many left active and that that number had not yet been reached when Zoar was selected by counting blades.


Are you sure? I think when the king was chosen the numbers have been reached, no?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1357 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2016 :  04:12:39  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nope, they said :

"The young have so little regard for history," Lady Durothil said dryly. "Are you forgetting that the choice will be made, not by the council, but by the will of the gods, as interpreted by enchanted swords?"

"How are we to know that one of these lost swords might not have been meant to determine kingship?" Saida Evanara demanded. "How can such a decision be made now, when not all of the moonblades can be accounted for?"
 
"In that, we will have to trust the gods," Mi'tilarro Aelorothi said firmly. Such was the weight of the Gold elf's words that all protest fell silent, for the patriarch of the ancient Gold elf clan was also a high priest of Corellon Larethian.

"The Council of Elders honors all those who came this day to stand before the People and the gods of the Seldarine, and to dare the crucible of the moonblade's magic. No dishonor tarnishes the houses who were not selected, and a place in Arvandor awaits all those who had the courage to take up a moonblade. To those new moonfighters among us, we extend congratulations."
 
The Gold elf's gaze swept the small group of Moon elves before her. "The task ahead is more difficult still. There are yet five-and-twenty living moonblades. Legend says that when four-and-twenty remain, the king sword will announce itself and its wielder. We are one too many, and thus the royal family must be determined by its collective strength. Moonfighters, please gather by clans."
 
So - there were 25 present, plus other ones missing that could have been active still. And the magical call never happened. Maybe it still will.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2016 :  14:33:50  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Nope, they said :

So - there were 25 present, plus other ones missing that could have been active still. And the magical call never happened. Maybe it still will.




I thought there were intriguing possibilities in this, but the point is now moot, as other writers have taken the moonblade lore in other directions.

Still, it would be interesting to know what might have happened when the count went down to 24...
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1357 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2016 :  17:01:43  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The way I look at it, as far as lore goes in FR - it seems to be that a Johnny-come-lately lore trumps older lore situation. So, anything you decide to write on the topic and present as fact will trump whatever else has been done otherwise :P

I think it would be very interesting for a new ruler to be promoted by the moonblades and for Amlaruil to become a power behind the throne type of adviser/protector akin to the Srinshee.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3245 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2016 :  17:30:56  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why did no one mention this part of the moonbladr history when i was musing over an evil origin to moonblades. Its perfect.

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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2016 :  13:00:54  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Why did no one mention this part of the moonbladr history when i was musing over an evil origin to moonblades. Its perfect.



It didn't occur to me, because the context of an evil origin isn't something I've ever considered so my mind simply didn't go there.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3245 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2016 :  14:55:31  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry Elaine, i should have been clearer as the question wasnt really directed at you, but to other scribes that contributed to a scroll i had created about moonblades long before the dms guild began.

The crux was that malkizid engineered the creation of Evermeet (from GHoTR), and therefore the moonblades may have been engineered secretly by his agents as well. Thus giving the blades an overt goodly origin but a secret evil purpose.

I had suggested that the whole king maker ritual had been a farce or a corruption called early by malkizid to further divide the elves (which could be the blades true purpose), and that such an event may happen again and choose another king to cause more strife.

People didnt like the idea, stating it outright contradicted canon, but no one mentioned the quote above which fitted my idea perfectly.

Anyways, ill stop hijacking the scroll now. My apologies.

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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1377 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  02:16:17  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

The crux was that malkizid engineered the creation of Evermeet (from GHoTR), and therefore the moonblades may have been engineered secretly by his agents as well. Thus giving the blades an overt goodly origin but a secret evil purpose.

I had suggested that the whole king maker ritual had been a farce or a corruption called early by malkizid to further divide the elves (which could be the blades true purpose), and that such an event may happen again and choose another king to cause more strife.

You did not demonstrate the connection. The whole deal with moonblades does not follow from creation of Evermeet. Nor does inherently require it.
To connect it, you'd have to postulate that Malkizid manipulated Ethlando into this bright idea… and that the Seldarine didn't notice anything amiss (such as that they never sent any relevant visions to the seer believed to be inspired by them into something that affects their faithful in a whole world) when they gave this project their blessing.
Even then, this solution was accepted exactly because the division was a problem already. And if Moonblades were part of a plan to divide the elves any more, this plan was proven completely useless. Cormanthyr, for one, had it much worse. And why would it not be so?

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1357 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  03:32:08  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The idea is not entirely without merit, and since history in FR is pretty fluid, AND since we only have a tiny (like 5 minute) glimpse of Ethlando - there is nothing that contradicts such a plot twist in your home campaign.

I personally liked Malkazid as the evil lurker in the shadows of the Crown Wars - but am not a huge fan of him being behind pretty much every major problem the elves have had. It is by far more interesting for interracial strife to be its own evil - it doesn't need a devil to blame. Toss in interspecies conflicts (humans/dwarves/dragons/demihumans) and the elves have enough problems.

Moreover - he is basically just a grumpy solar; and there are several of the morally upright solars who serve the Seldarine. Why would one of these not spend its time countering old scar face? There is simply no good answer to that. :)
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3245 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  07:08:26  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry again, just a bit more thread derailment.

Firstly lets leave the gods out of a debate because for every god you say wont allow it, i have 10 evil gods who will do anything to make it happen. Gods dont do anything, they are like management, they just take the credit.

Im not suggesting some mustachioed evil maniac secretly make the blades and stick evil in it. Im suggesting everyone was blinded by their own righteousness and the goodness of the idea.

The blades only pick good virtues in people, they help those people with great powers, and in the end they pick the goodest king. Nothing evil there.

Ethlando was being entirely good in his purpose to make the blades.

The only problem is his unconscious racism towarda gold elves that everyone felt at the time.

The only input malkizid had was to suggest the idea to ethlando in the first placr with a dream or by leaving an old manuscript lying around that ethlando decided would be better if he did it for good elves rather than those of house vyshaan.

So no evil took place. No evil is in the blade. No evil is involved in its making. Its all good. But malkizid holds the key to invoking the kingmaker ritual and knows how to manipulate and reset it.

It may not even be malkizid who messes with the ritual to promote strife. The starym sword likely corrupted the whole magic of the blades so who knows what will be happening now.

A major theme of high magic ia that there are always unintended consequences. This should be no different.

Plus i love making everything a mix of good and evil. As you say everything should be a battle ground and no side should win. So good guys do a good thing, but evil should always mess with it somehow.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29792 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  10:03:49  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Firstly lets leave the gods out of a debate because for every god you say wont allow it, i have 10 evil gods who will do anything to make it happen. Gods dont do anything, they are like management, they just take the credit.



Leave the gods out of something they have a direct interest in?

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3245 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  11:31:22  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well if you can detail which part of the ritual they performed or in the words of Troy "and how many armies will the gods provide", they it makes sense to discuss that participation.

But if Ethlando and the other high mages performed the ritual then the gods involvement is theoretical.

That wasnt my point though really. The argument is always that the gods wont allow it but i can point to gods that will allow it. So who wins. If i can name more gods that will provide their power to allpw something bad then surely the evil gods win. Either way saying xxxx god wont allow it is a poor argument, they allowed the crown wars, they allowed the corruption of the starym blade, they allowed the fall of myth drannor, the destruction of rystall wood, the destruction of uvaeren, the unleashing of ityak elfeater, the death of zaor.

If the gods in their mysterious ways would allow all that destruction and interfering of their plans then why not allow the moonblades to go a bit wonky.


I can only conclude from the sheer number of horrible events that have occured, that either the gods are powerless (either because they are metaphysical beings and can take no direct actions, or because any other number of myriad gods oppose their actions), or they dont like or care about their subjects all that much.

Either way the gods do not allow it seems an inconsistent argument at best because they are so fickle you just dont know what they will allow.

Therefore for sanity reasons alone they are best left out of it. If i can find a plausible way to use the moonblades for evil then why should it not be possible. And using peoples own goodie two shoes tendencies against them is a deliciously evil way to corrupt a purpose.

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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  13:03:58  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Sorry Elaine, i should have been clearer as the question wasnt really directed at you, but to other scribes that contributed to a scroll i had created about moonblades long before the dms guild began.

The crux was that malkizid engineered the creation of Evermeet (from GHoTR), and therefore the moonblades may have been engineered secretly by his agents as well. Thus giving the blades an overt goodly origin but a secret evil purpose.

I had suggested that the whole king maker ritual had been a farce or a corruption called early by malkizid to further divide the elves (which could be the blades true purpose), and that such an event may happen again and choose another king to cause more strife.

People didnt like the idea, stating it outright contradicted canon, but no one mentioned the quote above which fitted my idea perfectly.

Anyways, ill stop hijacking the scroll now. My apologies.



No worries. I'm not sure this scroll CAN be hijacked, as long as the discussion is tangentially related to moonblades.

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 31 Aug 2016 13:05:31
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29792 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  13:51:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well if you can detail which part of the ritual they performed or in the words of Troy "and how many armies will the gods provide", they it makes sense to discuss that participation.

But if Ethlando and the other high mages performed the ritual then the gods involvement is theoretical.

That wasnt my point though really. The argument is always that the gods wont allow it but i can point to gods that will allow it. So who wins. If i can name more gods that will provide their power to allpw something bad then surely the evil gods win. Either way saying xxxx god wont allow it is a poor argument, they allowed the crown wars, they allowed the corruption of the starym blade, they allowed the fall of myth drannor, the destruction of rystall wood, the destruction of uvaeren, the unleashing of ityak elfeater, the death of zaor.

If the gods in their mysterious ways would allow all that destruction and interfering of their plans then why not allow the moonblades to go a bit wonky.


I can only conclude from the sheer number of horrible events that have occured, that either the gods are powerless (either because they are metaphysical beings and can take no direct actions, or because any other number of myriad gods oppose their actions), or they dont like or care about their subjects all that much.

Either way the gods do not allow it seems an inconsistent argument at best because they are so fickle you just dont know what they will allow.

Therefore for sanity reasons alone they are best left out of it. If i can find a plausible way to use the moonblades for evil then why should it not be possible. And using peoples own goodie two shoes tendencies against them is a deliciously evil way to corrupt a purpose.



There's a heck of a difference between the fall of a city, or the death of a ruler, or even allowing elves to kill each other, and a divine plan to select leadership. You're arguing that the gods would deliberately set something in motion and then not even pay attention to see if it goes according to plan.

With the exception of the Ityak Ortheel and the corruption of the Starym moonblade, everything you refer to was done by elves, to elves, and inspired solely by those elves. (Yes, even the fall of Myth Drannor -- if they had kept their lore better, or chosen a better key, or even policed themselves better, the Trio Nefarious would not have been released).

The Elf-Eater is a different case, because it's not connected to elven deities. The elven gods can't keep a non-elven god from doing something in his or her purview.

The Seldarine chose to get involved in who would rule the elves. That's very much something in their purview. And that's very much something they are going to keep an eye on, particularly with High Magic having been involved in the creation of the moonblades.

As for the Starym moonblade, that one is a one-off. It's a single blade, not the entire lot of them. And it was corrupted after it was made, not during the creation. Moander's gig is corruption, and he even corrupted a deity, once, without that deity noticing. So him being able to corrupt a moonblade is very much in keeping with all existing lore.

Further, with it being a one-off, it's much more likely to be overlooked -- there were hundreds of other moonblades at the time. If more were corrupted, it would dramatically increase the odds of being noticed. And once there are fewer blades, there would be increased scrutiny on the remaining ones -- especially if it wound up in the hands of the ruling family.

If I had to spin a tale around corrupting the intent of the moonblades' creation, I'd go with the Moander angle, with him and his followers working to corrupt the blades one at a time, over a period of centuries. But even that approach is problematic...

And in a setting where the gods are known to be active and to happily interfere far too oft, you can't just handwave their involvement out the window or play the "no gods can do anything because of other gods" card -- a card that prior Realmslore has repeatedly shown to be invalid.

It's better to spin something entirely new, rather than try to force something existing into a mold it simply wasn't made to fit.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3245 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  14:34:39  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well we will have to disagree here. As i said before the elves made the blades, the elves cast the ritual, what did the god do precisely.

Elves didnt destroy rystall wood, other creatures did. I suppose if the elves looked after themselves better we could blame it on them. Elves didnt destroy uvaeren, a whopping big meteor did, but if they had placed their realm better it wouldnt have happened. Conversely, if i follow my idea to the end, malkizid didnt corrupt the moonblades purpose, he merely prompted an idea and allowed the elves own elitism to turn it into a force for strife and division.

I never hand waive anything out of existence (unless its really awful), i just provide an alternate spin. The gods claiming all the credit for the actions of mortals i put down to an awful lot of spin. Kind of how in the bible lots of events are attributed to a deity but in actual fact are just rare natural phenomena (Noahs tale being the separation of spain and africa in gibraltar, the colour of the red sea being down to a proloferation of insects, etc, etc).


So if the elves messed up through their own elitist racism against their own racial subdivisions then that must be allowed because Bane likes strife, Shar likes loss, Gruumsh hates the elves, Lolth hates the elves, etc, etc.

I fail to see how Corellon can stop the moonblades if Malkizid was involved (by arranging for a bit of paper to be found by ethlando which gives him the idea for the moonblades) when everything else is the same as it was before, its just that the idea was an evil one instead of a good one.

If Corellon is so involved with the moonblades why didnt he just magic them into existence himself, that way no evil could be involved. Why did he need the elves to do anything. If he is so all powerful that he can see the future and the past with such perfect clarity as to divine the involvement of any evil in his plans then why does anything ever go wrong.

The god argument is really tired and old and beyond a few myths and legends that people take as gospel truth (reality is not that different from fiction in that regard), i fail to see how it has persisted for so long.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  17:05:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No one ever said the gods are all-knowing and all-powerful. And saying they'd keep an eye on things is not saying they are omniscient.

The god argument persists in the Realms because the gods are active and make sure mortals know it.

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  18:02:35  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Then it must be our definitions of active that differ. Corellon's faithful servants helped make the moonblades and gather together the clans in cooperation so the ritual would bind all elves together.

Whereas malkizid and his followers planted the detail of the original idea on some forgotten parchment in a vyshaan ruin and then left a clue pointing to the location of ancient lore.

No one was inactive and i dont doubt agents of the seldarine carefully guarded the place where the moonblades were made and the ritual was performed (just as the servants of lolth were trying to infiltrate and sabotage things). But Corellon didnt turn up and cast the ritual, nor did gruumsh himself turn up to smash the puny elves, nor lolth cast her own anti ritual to deliberately corrupt things. If such events happened with actual divine beings turning up and stomping all over the place in their size 9000 shoes then everything would just turn into 1385 every day.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  19:14:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Then it must be our definitions of active that differ. Corellon's faithful servants helped make the moonblades and gather together the clans in cooperation so the ritual would bind all elves together.

Whereas malkizid and his followers planted the detail of the original idea on some forgotten parchment in a vyshaan ruin and then left a clue pointing to the location of ancient lore.

No one was inactive and i dont doubt agents of the seldarine carefully guarded the place where the moonblades were made and the ritual was performed (just as the servants of lolth were trying to infiltrate and sabotage things). But Corellon didnt turn up and cast the ritual, nor did gruumsh himself turn up to smash the puny elves, nor lolth cast her own anti ritual to deliberately corrupt things. If such events happened with actual divine beings turning up and stomping all over the place in their size 9000 shoes then everything would just turn into 1385 every day.



High Magic was used to create the moonblades. And Corellon is in charge of High Magic.

Further, we have this from Cormanthyr, in the description of the High Magic ritual used to create magic items:

quote:
The priests involved in this ritual invoke their gods' attentions and patronage to the working, while the High Mages perform the ritual to bind the summoned power to the items. Sometimes, the gods themselves directly infuse powers into the items that are not invoked by the priests or High Mages, and these often become the relics of that god's religion.

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 31 Aug 2016 :  19:47:08  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So their attention and patronage was summoned, but it doesnt say if they gave it. We had a similar process on earth where someone would offer money or a service to the church and in return they would bless whatever they requested thus giving it the gods attention and patronage. Why does it have to be different on faerun. Why does a blessing have to involve the god turning up. Why does it mean that when attention is given Corellon and the justice league wont let anyone play with their favourite toys.

And the second bit of that quote sounded more generic than specific to the moonblades. Are any of the moonblades considered relics of corellons church? If not then it sounds like he had no direct part in their creation, he just gave his approval like a manager signing off a new investment.

If he isnt all powerful and isnt all knowing, and didnt turn up to directly scrutinise the whole process, then why is it inconceivable that the moonblades purpose be twisted towards evil. Good intentions can be twisted towards evil without any actual involvement from evil people. What exactly is he supposed to turn up and stop if all that is happening is what the moonblades were designed for in the beginning (pick a ruler who is just and generous and good and thus probably not a gold elf).

I have very active gods in my realms, but no god ever turns up in person, and avatars only turn up when summoned and the need is great. Everything else is done by proxy and dream and signs and servants.

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