| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Kaervok
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Mar 2004 : 14:34:02
|
What I have always dreamed of happening to a Forgotten realms game was the third person live action style. I never knew how to explain myself until I installed my old game, Ultima 9. I love it. The first person controlls and the good story, although it would be greatly updated!!! I like the magic system and it's really straightforward. Every area is unique, unlike neverwinter, and yet, a new FR game would be amped to be set in Faerun and more customization.
To comment on myself, I just love the live action you swing the sword style rather than the combat animations where you just sit there and watch, like in Neverwinter. I always thought the control style of Jedi Academy games mixed with the Fantasy role playing element of D&D would be great. Ultima was a lesser version but still exaclty almost what I'm thinking---the little ticker in the middle, spell slots, yadda yadda. 
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 02:45:54
|
Live action? Uhm, you mean, getting actual people to perform...? What? Are you saying that there should be more animations for spellcasting and combat? Do you mean choreography? If so, there's KotOR's melee combat animations.
I personally prefer combat that requires you to click only once, and the controlled character will keep attacking until the opponent dies. Why? Because I have no desire to click again and again and again -- did that enough in Diablo(w)2, thank you very much. After a while, it can really hurt my clicking finger.
quote:
I always thought the control style of Jedi Academy games mixed with the Fantasy role playing element of D&D would be great.
Count me out. A RPG doesn't require the player's skill (as in hand-eye coordination and reflexes), but rather, the character's. What you're saying is an unholy union of a FPS and pseudo-RPG. Besides, knowing game developers, they'd spend all the resources working on such controls and then forget all about story and substance.
Here, why don't you go play Morrowind? |
 |
|
|
EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 14:34:51
|
quote:
I personally prefer combat that requires you to click only once, and the controlled character will keep attacking until the opponent dies. Why? Because I have no desire to click again and again and again -- did that enough in Diablo(w)2, thank you very much. After a while, it can really hurt my clicking finger.
Ah, you so bloody negatively attuned to everything that sounds kinda like something you might not enjoy. (I bet you were one of those who klicked the same monster over, and over, and over, and over again, in D2, huh? Or one of those who died to Fallen Ones in chapter 1, with your newly created sorc.)
What Karevok sais is blashpemic, however. And he should be burnt publicly on a stick, while old grandmothers spit on him, and his relatives' childeren will grow tails, and muttate into disgusting rats, with human heads!!! |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
|
|
|
Narad Bladesinger
Learned Scribe
Finland
170 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 14:52:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kaervok
What I have always dreamed of happening to a Forgotten realms game was the third person live action style. I never knew how to explain myself until I installed my old game, Ultima 9. I love it. The first person controlls and the good story, although it would be greatly updated!!! I like the magic system and it's really straightforward. Every area is unique, unlike neverwinter, and yet, a new FR game would be amped to be set in Faerun and more customization.
To comment on myself, I just love the live action you swing the sword style rather than the combat animations where you just sit there and watch, like in Neverwinter. I always thought the control style of Jedi Academy games mixed with the Fantasy role playing element of D&D would be great. Ultima was a lesser version but still exaclty almost what I'm thinking---the little ticker in the middle, spell slots, yadda yadda.
One thing I hate about NWN is all the areas. They look the same. It feels like you're never really making any progress, since you walk the same caves and villages.
The other thing is fighting. You don't get to do anything yourself. They really should come up with something better in those ways!   |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 02:42:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by EcThelion
Ah, you so bloody negatively attuned to everything that sounds kinda like something you might not enjoy. (I bet you were one of those who klicked the same monster over, and over, and over, and over again, in D2, huh? Or one of those who died to Fallen Ones in chapter 1, with your newly created sorc.)
So nice to see "I-am-so-l337-and-j00-suxx0r-cause-j00-cant-play-my-g4m3" attitude here. Please, I finished the game singleplayer without cheating; I never did try multiplayer, because the game's dull enough as is without the addition of players who... well, come with your attitude. Seriously, do you think that accomplishments in D2 multiplayer actually mean anything? A measure of one's clicking ability, perhaps? Keyboard-hitting aptitude?
What's "klick" and what's "blashpemic", anyway? |
|
|
|
EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 10:11:09
|
"klick", and "blashpemic" would be misstypes, my good... err... I mean "ym godo anm."
And I'm not
quote:
"I-am-so-l337-and-j00-suxx0r-cause-j00-cant-play-my-g4m3"
I'm
quote:
"j0 d0d! i m 1337! i r0xx! i pwn you, suxx0rz! W43rh4rh4rh4rh4rh4r!!!!11
lolololololololololololol!!!11 OMMFG! i haxx0r u 4ll!!11 All your posts are belong to me!!1 th3 1337n3ss sh4ll ov3rcom3 u 4ll!!!1"
(That's a quote, by the way)
And if ur gonna start with all that "doing this, and this, is meaningless"-stuff I will gladly inform you that there is no meaning with life other than that of wich you make. Then again that one is naught but an illusion; so basically the meaning of YOUR life would be to "be born, keep alive, get childeren, die. "While my life would be keep "alive, have fun, piss people off, die." You shouldn't go around searching for a meaning with everything.
And I never claimed that I though that it means something, other than that I'm better than u at it. And that's little or nothing.
And the entire point of DII is the multiplayer. You obviously got the game up-side-down.
quote:
Seriously, do you think that accomplishments in D2 multiplayer actually mean anything? A measure of one's clicking ability, perhaps? Keyboard-hitting aptitude?
It prepared my for WC3 
And, not to break any illusions here, but RPGs are not much more intelectually stimulating than other games.
Brighten-up, man.  |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 10:22:51
|
quote:
And if ur gonna start with all that "doing this, and this, is meaningless"-stuff I will gladly inform you that there is no meaning with life other than that of wich you make. Then again that one is naught but an illusion; so basically the meaning of YOUR life would be to "be born, keep alive, get childeren, die. "While my life would be keep "alive, have fun, piss people off, die." You shouldn't go around searching for a meaning with everything.
*slaps own forehead*
*giggles helplessly* Thank you for the laugh. I'm sorry, but I don't think we need to dip into pseudo-wisdom/philosophy here. I hardly need a stranger with questionable grammar explaining the meaning of life, or lack thereof, to me, thank you. Preach elsewhere.
quote:
And, not to break any illusions here, but RPGs are not much more intelectually stimulating than other games.
Brighten-up, man.
Duh. Please don't make assumptions; I said to someone else, in another forum, myself that RPGs don't require any more intellectual prowess than other genres.
For that matter, not to break any delusions here, random pseudo-intellectual attempts at being philosophical is, well... Ahahaha. For your information, by the way, I'm female, thank you very much. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 26 Mar 2004 12:34:33 |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 15:05:42
|
Folks,
One of the largest "nation-wide" live-action role playing groups is called "Amtgard".....foam sticks, complicated magic rules, tons of fun...
Do a google search on it to find out where the closest chapter is in your area..... |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 15:32:03
|
Can we please refrain from using 'Leetspeak' here? It has come to plague the WotC Message Boards from time to time, and as I recall, many of the moderators there began a ruthless 'crackdown' on it's usage.
Please, do not plague these hallowed halls with such ciphered novelty nonsense...It can be annoying to those unfamiliar with the most appropriate methods of decoding what is said...
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 15:42:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Can we please refrain from using 'Leetspeak' here? It has come to plague the WotC Message Boards from time to time, and as I recall, many of the moderators there began a ruthless 'crackdown' on it's usage.
Please, do not plague these hallowed halls with such ciphered novelty nonsense...It can be annoying to those unfamiliar with the most appropriate methods of decoding what is said...
It can be annoying to those of us that know it, too. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 18:11:09
|
In my opinion, those who think they need to use "chatspeak" of any sort are compensating for something, likely the inability to seem intelligent through normal speech. Rather a harsh judgement, I know. I consider such things as "lol" to be borderline, since it has come to mean something that isn't easily expressed through normal English.
(Notice I didn't say proper English. I don't want to start an American/British flame war here.  ) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 05:16:34
|
I actually don't see the L337 speak used seriously much. Usually, people use it in mockery or exaggeration (as I have) to make a point.
The "u", "r", "kewl" breed of shorthand, on the other hand, seems to be in abundance. (On some of the message boards I frequent and FF.net, anyway.) |
|
|
|
Narad Bladesinger
Learned Scribe
Finland
170 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 10:15:24
|
Ahem... Has the topic changed?
Anyway, because they are making tons of MMORPGs I wonder why they won't make one happening in FR? I mean that couldn't they copy some part of Forgotten Realms to a game and have all those places that really are on FR? That would be a Major must-have, but I quess I'm just dreaming... |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 10:51:29
|
| Because they couldn't make it work for everyone. It would either be a commercial failure, because all the normal MMORPGers would likely be saying "The world's too detailed!" or "What? Where's all the enemies to kill?" or the PnP FR lovers would be "Where's the immersive experience we've been waiting for?!". |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 11:06:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Narad Bladesinger
Ahem... Has the topic changed?
Anyway, because they are making tons of MMORPGs I wonder why they won't make one happening in FR? I mean that couldn't they copy some part of Forgotten Realms to a game and have all those places that really are on FR? That would be a Major must-have, but I quess I'm just dreaming...
Aside from what Arivia said, it'd be extremely impractical. Think of all the things that need to be done -- the geography, the NPCs, the dialogue, the quests. Morrowind is a perfect example of this: it's got lots of areas, lots of NPCs, but little to no substance. (The NPCs all end up looking the same, having the same conversations, and none of them has a personality to speak of.)
Moreover -- and this applies to all MMORPGs -- for a MMORPG to be alive, it needs non-static events, and most companies just can't be arsed to hire the GMs to oversee such events. It happend, oh, a few times a year in EQ (more if you pay for the special server), so for the most part players are stuck with raiding the same dungeons again and again, and killing the same critters over and over for the same loot, in the same areas. |
|
|
|
Narad Bladesinger
Learned Scribe
Finland
170 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 11:47:51
|
I quess you're right...
But everybody doesn't go just looting dungeons, some just do it for the adventure. Thats why Diablo2 is bad, but it has it's hook with the items that can pop out from the next chest.
I think that if FR would be transfered to MMORPG and they'd do it well, the areas themselves would be uinque, unlike NWN's areas.
There's so much in all the places in FR, I just wonder why nobody takes the advantege of it. |
|
|
|
Kaervok
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 12:32:22
|
Ya-hay, I'm a blasphemetic freak cause I want and Ultra-RPG awsome try hard at it game!
Because I wan't to click to attack the sword and I need to train to get the skills and work hard actually to get the magic!
Wow, you all who have said the sit back and click style must have been the ones who were lousy and laisy at games like Halo and Jedi Academy. I know the Idea sounds a bit wierd, but If some good company could pull it off, it would be good. Now what exactly is so blaphemous?
Every area in NWN seems, the same. Which in fact it is. Now someone said Morrowind, I have played it, for a nigh 5 minutes. Really odd. Although I was at a party and was a bit lightheaded. But I guess I'm the blasphemous toad cause I think different and have good ideas! |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 12:57:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Narad Bladesinger
I quess you're right...
But everybody doesn't go just looting dungeons, some just do it for the adventure. Thats why Diablo2 is bad, but it has it's hook with the items that can pop out from the next chest.
I think that if FR would be transfered to MMORPG and they'd do it well, the areas themselves would be uinque, unlike NWN's areas.
There's so much in all the places in FR, I just wonder why nobody takes the advantege of it.
It won't sell. How many people do you think explore a MMORPG for adventure? Most people do it for loot and experience points. Better loot, better stats, bigger monsters, flashier-looking visual effects. A MMORPG that caters to exploring and story-driven gameplay would be taking a big risk of becoming a financial failure -- and face it, companies want money; who cares about a minority of gamers and quality? Follow the same formula, get big bucks. That's why there're so many Diablo clones -- and why most MMORPGs end up being variations of the same thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Kaervok
Wow, you all who have said the sit back and click style must have been the ones who were lousy and laisy at games like Halo and Jedi Academy.
See Winterfox. See Winterfox laugh at you. Laugh, Winterfox, laugh.
I find it very telling that you make the assumption that the people who complain do so out of frustration/ineptitude at said gameplay. I finished the Jedi Academy singleplayer, had a go at some multiplayer action, and was seriously bored. (Cruddy level design, craptacular story, forgettable gameplay, outdated graphics. I played it through only to hear Jennifer Hale's voice.) The lightsaber combat is ridiculously random; it mostly takes luck and quick clicking rather than skill. And there's no tactic involved at all except "buff with Force powers, charge, click!" |
|
|
|
Narad Bladesinger
Learned Scribe
Finland
170 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 14:36:37
|
Kaervok, I really like your idea. If somehow could be done a MMORPG for example, so that the player would really have to 'play'. You'd need to perform the fighting technics (Of course not every move, but some at least) so it would measure the skill of the player behind the character. This has one major problem though. It is not very realistic if a lvl 6 fighter beats up a lvl 20 fighter, just because that other player is better.
So not a game where you do all by yourself, but not a game where you 'clikc it and kill it'. Thats a though one!
Winterfox, I think NWN's multiplayer as more like adventuring, than looting. Since you can create your own stuff, looting isn't important anymore.
And what kind of a games do you like? It would be good to know, since you dismiss all of our ideas...
But you do have a point. MMORPGs are making big bucks and everyone wants their piece. But people reach level-gaps and find so great weapons that they don't need any better.
What then? Start it all over again?
I quess people just haven't discovered the real essence of role-playing yet |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2004 : 05:23:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Narad Bladesinger
Winterfox, I think NWN's multiplayer as more like adventuring, than looting. Since you can create your own stuff, looting isn't important anymore.
NWN is not a MMORPG. 64 players per server do not a MMORPG make, not even close to it. There's a reason they call it "massively multiplayer", after all.
quote:
And what kind of a games do you like? It would be good to know, since you dismiss all of our ideas...
I dismiss ideas because I'm pessimistic. But if you must know, I prefer singleplayer, story-driven RPGs with at least palatable gameplay (I loathe turn-based combat such as one found in Fallout; the story and characters have to be very good for me to overlook bugs the likes of ToEE). For the record, I loved, say, FFVII (even though I don't think of it as a RPG) in spite of its abominable English, horribly pixelated graphics -- I played it on the PC -- and the console-ish interface. The storytelling somehow transcended the Lego-man character avatars, rigid plot-line with little to no options, and juvenile dialogue. Which is saying something.
Otherwise, some of my favourite RPGs are in this order: Planescape: Torment, Knights of the Old Republic, BG2+ToB, IWD+HoW+TotL. Yes, IWD is a dungeon crawl fest -- but it's got tactical elements, and done so well, and is hardly a Diablo clone.
quote:
But you do have a point. MMORPGs are making big bucks and everyone wants their piece. But people reach level-gaps and find so great weapons that they don't need any better.
What then? Start it all over again?
I quess people just haven't discovered the real essence of role-playing yet
High-level characters prance around. Sometimes it's fun to just know that your character is powerful enough to take on most everything other characters run away from. My enchanter went to take revenge on the NPCs that slaughtered her in her lower levels. ("Die, Gix, die, you dark elven scum!") They build up trading skills to generate money to support their other characters or their guild, and high-level characters are always in high demand in raids. (Cleric with epic Holy Water-sprinkler to resurrect, wizards to teleport, mages to pop rods, enchanters to mind booze.) Oh, and there's always better weapons to be found, sooner or later. Hit level 65? Got epic? Well, have you killed the dragon god for the tenth time yet? Level 65 enchanter, are you? Have you pulled off the charm-solo-dragon stunt?
There's also a large enough difference in classes that a lot of people start new characters to try other classes. Yep, wizards, magicians, necromancers and enchanters are really not one bit like each other. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 28 Mar 2004 05:25:19 |
|
|
|
Narad Bladesinger
Learned Scribe
Finland
170 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2004 : 08:49:32
|
About NWN I meant that it's singleplayer gets boring on the second chapter and a Lot of people play it online. And there the adventuring part comes up.
I quess that people just want to kill everything in their way just because they can. But I myself think RPG is all about the adventuring and I'm sorry to say that I'm a part of the minority.
Of course it is great to have new and better weapons when you've earned them, or get a level after you've killed a boss in some dungeon. But in my case it gets boring in some point. Trying new classes and making them reach the gap, its not fun anymore. And that is the point where adventuring kicks in! |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2004 : 09:11:37
|
| I stick to story-heavy singleplayer modules for NWN, because frankly, what's there to explore? All areas end up looking the same. Exploring seems a bit redundant when there's no story to drive it. (Unless the mod's saturated with tileset hakpacks, in which case, it'd be one hell of a download for players.) |
|
|
|
Narad Bladesinger
Learned Scribe
Finland
170 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2004 : 12:13:54
|
Only few things irritate more, than the areas of NWN. 90 degrees at every turn, no unique-looking places, and every city looks the same. Ah, when will there be a game like FF7? Now that was something I played for a long time. (Gold Saucer makes the game! )
I wish I could download something to my NWN. Modem isn't really the best thing for getting anything . I can't even update my NWN since the auto-update doesn't work... |
|
|
|
Kaervok
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2004 : 00:34:56
|
Kaervok, I really like your idea. If somehow could be done a MMORPG for example, so that the player would really have to 'play'. You'd need to perform the fighting technics (Of course not every move, but some at least) so it would measure the skill of the player behind the character. This has one major problem though. It is not very realistic if a lvl 6 fighter beats up a lvl 20 fighter, just because that other player is better.
So not a game where you do all by yourself, but not a game where you 'click it and kill it'. Thats a though one From Narad
Why thankyou. It's really hard for me to explain what I'm trying to do. But in a game like this, there would'nt be per se Character levels, more like an advance in weapon or spell techniques. The spells would be like real time as in you shoot a fireball and it has some homing effect but if someone was fast enough, hasted per se, or hid behing a physical(or magical) barrier, it would not get him. The attacks would be based more on skill and clicking techniques. Of course this RPG would have to have a good story with options on what to do, every place being unique and also, Char. Customization.
Only few things irritate more, than the areas of NWN. 90 degrees at every turn, no unique-looking places, and every city looks the same. from Narad
Yes, exactly. I hate the repited style, there was never anything unique. And all of the loading got irritating.
I find it very telling that you make the assumption that the people who complain do so out of frustration/ineptitude at said gameplay. I finished the Jedi Academy singleplayer, had a go at some multiplayer action, and was seriously bored. (Cruddy level design, craptacular story, forgettable gameplay, outdated graphics. I played it through only to hear Jennifer Hale's voice.) The lightsaber combat is ridiculously random; it mostly takes luck and quick clicking rather than skill. And there's no tactic involved at all except "buff with Force powers, charge, click!" By winterfox
I don't know which Jedi Academy your talking about. Im talking about JA 3. The combat actually takes skill. Whats random and completely lucky and boring is the turn based rolls action, like in NWN. Although Baldurs gate has that, BG games are still awsome. ALthough IN JA 3, the story is so so, but the fighting is awsome. There are tactics in that game, and luck rarely has anything to do with it. Running and jumping along-on walls, never using force for online dueling, le sigh,-- and of course the direction you swing the sabre. Le sigh, im sorry that you seem to have your games confused winterfox.
|
Edited by - Kaervok on 29 Mar 2004 00:42:13 |
|
|
|
Elmonster
Acolyte
Russia
49 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2004 : 08:40:41
|
First of all i would like to say that i didn't like the NWN for same reasons: dull, every location looks like as if it was copied and pasted, everything is static and boring, unintersting plot, no "feel" of Forgotten Realms.
Second, i really enjoyed Morrowind and Gothic (1,2). They are not ideal single player RPG's, but they have something that NWN lacks - "feel of the world"
What i think new FR game should look like:
- Take place in one region not in whole Faerun (Amn, Tethyr, Calimshan, Sword Coast North, Silver Marches, Cormyr...)
- Single player, party-based with solid plot
- Graphics and sound that create "a living world". Take Morrowind as an example. |
I wished on the seven sisters
Bring me the wisdom of the age
All that's locked within the book of secrets
I longed for the knowledge of the sage...
Fires at Midnight, Blackmore's Night |
|
|
|
Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2004 : 15:18:52
|
The "one-click" style is awful because then thats all you do is attack. And I don't see why the other "multy-click" style is much better your still just attacking.
Thats why I think the best would be a turn-based style it would create a lot more strategy and allow you to incorporate all of those cool feats and spells and anything else you want to try and especially in an MMORPG it would allow for greater teamwork I believe trying to mesh all of your skills and strategies together.
Go check out this thread http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2182 and please post your own ideas :) |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
New directions for FR gaming
