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King Graham
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jan 2016 : 03:41:41
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I'm relatively new to FR and to D&D in general. I say relatively because I was mega into it as a teen and had a ton of supplements and source material, all of which was thrown away on me. I'm 25 now and starting to get back into the scene and I suppose I have a lot of catching up to do and a lot I want to learn.
My first question for all is thus: In worlds such as Tolkien's, or Warhammer Fantasy, Elves are a melancholy people who are fading out as a race. There is a running theme in such worlds that Elves are becoming rarer and rarer and disenchanted with the world. They are haughty, distant, remote and hold a certain level of cat-like disdain for the younger races. In the Warhammer universe especially, it is noted that the Elves have become complacent and no longer build grand things; In Tolkien's, they are leaving in ever greater numbers for the Great Havens and their power, numbers and magic have greatly declined and their populations are confined to but a few small enclaves.
I am curious how common Elves are in the Forgotten Realms (in terms of population); how their nature in the Realms differs from their portrayals in worlds universes such as Middle Earth and the Old World?
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2016 : 07:22:36
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Thematically
Elves in Faerun have been declining for millenia, and many of them Retreated to the West (Evermeet), so in this respect FR follows the Tolkien theme. But recently they've started coming back to the human-dominated Faerun; whether this halts their long-term decline, who knows?
Population
I haven't seen any overall data on this, but there are about 1.5M on Evermeet, and I would guess a similar number (or more) on mainland Faerun. The FR wiki is a good source for population stats for various realms, cities & towns, including the proportion for each race.
Nature
FR elves are long-lived, but not immortal (like in Middle Earth). Their nature varies, depending on the individual, but also on the subrace to which they belong. A quick rule of thumb:
Sun elves:
Haughtly, distant, superior (racist), proud, contemplative, concerned with magic & the arts & the the fine things of their civilization. Somewhat uptight.
Moon elves:
The most cosmopolitan of the elven subraces (i.e. the most ready to travel & mix with other races, least likely to be strongly prejudiced against them).
Wood elves:
Reclusive, live in the forests away from human lands, see their duty as protecting the wild places from encroaching civilization, and also acting as custodians of the remains of the ancient elven realms. Some FR novels portray them as impulsive, wanton pleasure-seekers, who scandalize their more uptight sun & moon elf cousins (e.g. their leader sitting on Elminster's lap) & behave like satyrs.
Drow:
Bad 'uns. |
Edited by - BenN on 18 Jan 2016 07:24:40 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1487 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2016 : 07:57:05
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D&D elves are very, very, very different from Tolkien's Firstborn.
Also, haughty, disdainful and remote aren't what I'd use to describe Tolkien's elves. In the Second Age, Sauron's initial assault pushed them all the way to the Grey Havens, and the end of the Second Age was marked by the death of their greatest king at Sauron's hand. In the Third Age, Galadriel had to fend off direct mental probes by Sauron, and Thranduil had the unpleasant fate of not only having Sauron as his literal next door neighbor, but the dwarves bringing down an Uruloki on his head. Elves were always the most battered of all the races in the war against Sauron and Morgoth. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2016 : 09:26:40
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Well, one differencce between elves in Faerun and those in Middle Earth and the Old World, is that Elves in Faerun, especially Moon Elves, are more integrated into human/multiracial society of Faerun, more commonly found living among humans, and entering relationships with them. Half-Elves are also more common, and a sub-species of their own(i.e. they must not decide to live like a human, or elf).
There Elven Sub-races, also have some paralells to Middle Earth ones if not 100% exact ones:
-Sun Elves most resemble High Elves, specifically Noldor.
-Moon Elves most resemble Grey Elves/Sindar.
-Wood Elves are roughly similar to Silvan Elves.
-Wild Elves are argubly the most similar to Green Elves/Laiquendi.
Star Elves, or Mithral Elves, are more complicated. They are similar to the High Elf archetype, but more Fey. The closest comparison I could make are Vanyar in terms of J.R.R, Tolkien's work, or High Elves from Avelorn, from Warhammer, but those aren't perfect matches by any means.
There are of course some subraces that have no direct similarities between Faerun and Middle Earth. Drow are more similar to Druchii from the Old World, but matriarchal, ebony-skinned and subterran.
Aquatic Elves are a bit like Nixies, Mermaids and other merfolk.
Avariel are winged elves, Lythari are somewhat like Elven lycanthropes(but not evil, or infectous).
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Edited by - Baltas on 18 Jan 2016 10:02:04 |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2016 : 12:20:51
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Also, elves in Faerun, are natives of the realms of Faerie(later retconned into Feywild), with various waves of migration:
-first were the Fey Creator Race/LeShay, who actually seem to immortal(ie unaging, undying) like Tolkien's elves, but are not playable due to being extremelly powerful. Some disagree if LeShay are elves at all, and the canon sources are a bit ambiguous about this.
-Second Weave were the gated/brought by the Leshay, were the Green Elves(ancestors of Wild Elves, Wood Elves and possibly Drow), Avariel, and Lythari.
-a possible third weave were Dark Elves(ancestors of Drow), but other sources indicate they were just a subgroup of Green Elves. Some indicate Dark Elves escaped from the Fey Lord in Faerie/Feywild, and those Fay Lord might be LeShay who were in the Faerie.
-the (aparent)last weave of migration were the Sun and Moon Elves, who cameto Toril/Faerun after their realms/island in Faerie, Tintageer, was destroyed.
It's unclear, if I remember right, how Aquatic Elves appeared in Faerun, nor the Star Elves. The Star Elves could come though with either the Green Elves, or the with Moon and Sun Elves, but it's nothin certain. |
Edited by - Baltas on 19 Jan 2016 09:16:57 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6354 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2016 : 09:18:12
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| Yeah, that's a certain possibility with Aquatic Elves, and would explain the lack of information on their arrival. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2016 : 10:35:55
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| Mrs. Elaine Cunningham's Evermeet: Island of the Elves tells us a story of a moon elven priestess of Deep Sashelas, IIRC, which is turned to aquatic elf when her ship is drowning. There were other aquatic elves around at that time, though. It is important to note that aquatic elves could not be spellcasters originally, and that this story was used to explain how a new generation of spellcasting sea elves came to be, near the Green Isle. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 19 Jan 2016 15:02:21 |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2016 : 03:08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Mrs. Elaine Cunningham's Evermeet: Island of the Elves tells us a story of a moon elven priestess of Deep Sashelas, IIRC, which is turned to aquatic elf when her ship is drowning. There were other aquatic elves around at that time, though. It is important to note that aquatic elves could not be spellcasters originally, and that this story was used to explain how a new generation of spellcasting sea elves came to be, near the Green Isle.
Do you have the page(s) that tale is told on? I have the book, but have never seen that tale in it... |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to?  |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2016 : 11:50:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Do you have the page(s) that tale is told on? I have the book, but have never seen that tale in it...
It's on the 11th chapter, the story of Anarzee Moonflower. She is the daughter of a Durothil and a Moonflower, and maybe she is a gold elf, although she adopted her mother's family name. Curiously, albeit somehow expected, her priest mentor is mentioned as an aged sea elf.
EDIT: In fact, the book says that HIGH magic has returned to sea elves. The previous FR monster compendium entry said that sea elves could not spellcast at all because, according to their legends, the drow have stolen them of this power (E:IoE mentions something about it, IIRC). But it seems sea elves could be clerics, as the mentor of Anarzee.
As for Anarzee being a surface elf priest of Deep Sashelas, Cormanthyr says that elves of every elven subrace could be clerics of Sashelas - but only aquatic elves could be specialty priests. In the sourcebook Demihuman Deities, set in more modern Realms, only aquatic elves and hal-elves, along with malenti, can be clerics, sea druids or priests of Sashelas. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 20 Jan 2016 13:30:02 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2016 : 04:15:03
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I recommend reading the aforementioned Evermeet: Island of Elves. It will give you a great history of the Faerunian elves. Source books on elves are good, too, as is the Cormyr trilogy.
The elves worship a pantheon called the Seldarine, with Corellon Larethian as the leader. The gold elves in particul5do tend to be haughty, while moon elves tend to be more accepting. Drow are considered evil, but the followers of Eilistraee, a goodly drow deity, are good (and, rumor has it, she and her brother Vhaeraun, who was considered evil, are now working together to bring the drow away from Lolth).
Many elves live on Evermeet, and during the Retreat, many elves left the main continent for Evermeet, so they became more rare, though they were never completely gone, and now, after the Spellplague, Evermeet, which had disappeared into the Feywild, has returned to Toril.
Two major elven cities are Evereska and Myth Drannor (Cormanthyr), though that city recently suffered a major blow. Elves can also be found in major cities like Silverymoon and Waterdeep, and of course in smaller communities in the forests.
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Sweet water and light laughter |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2392 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2016 : 17:59:02
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Evermeet: Island of Elves is best read in context - after reading at least Songs&Swords, and at best, enough of Realmslore to understand the significance of Dracorage and Descent of the Drow.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2016 : 18:07:19
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| True, though I read it before I read Song and Swords, and I did all right. If you have the opportunity to read Song and Swords first, then do so. And any source book on elves is helpful |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2016 : 16:11:36
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| The first mention of aquatic elves in E:IoE is their captured souls within the vest of Ka'Narlist - which puts the existence of the aquatic elves before the arrival of the sun and moon elves. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2392 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2016 : 20:18:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I'll add the elven info from Demihuman Deities, the Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves sourcebook, and the Daughter of the Drow books by Cunningham to that list as well.
This explains. 
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The first mention of aquatic elves in E:IoE is their captured souls within the vest of Ka'Narlist - which puts the existence of the aquatic elves before the arrival of the sun and moon elves.
Yeth?  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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A question about Elves
