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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 20:49:48
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Chris Perkins spoke on future story lines. Here's a snippet:
"Cloak -- ... they were going up into the icy mountains, and this temple under a mountain that's basically become a repository of evil. There was this sect of good-aligned wizards and paladins who were keeping this temple, and all of the evil within it, trapped there, to keep the world from going, you know, crazy. Keep the world safe. But that was 400, 500 years ago. What's in there enow? Well, maybe the wizards have all died off. Maybe they sort of succumbed to the evil there. Who knows? But it's an interesting story, and that's a piece, or a fragment, of a story that is going to be important in the future.
Dagger -- Dagger is a story in which you're going around and pillaging the ancestral mounds of barbarian tribes. And that has a slightly different feel, don't you think? It feels a bit more pulpy, and oh, you're got an airship! Great!"
Anyone have any ideas on a temple in the Realms that fits that description? I'm assuming ancestral mounds of barbarian tribes is Uthgardt. An airship does give possible long range travel distances, so maybe this won't be contained entirely in the North?
The creator of Adventure Time (love this cartoon) was consulted for ideas. Kind of interesting. I wonder why they do that as opposed to driving their "dump truck of money" to Ed's house instead?
Thoughts?
Full article here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?3033-WotC-s-Chris-Perkins-Talks-About-Everything!-Upcoming-Storylines-Products-Staffing-Other-Worlds-More!#.VlN6pr93CM8
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Edited by - Eilserus on 23 Nov 2015 20:50:33
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 21:08:19
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Thanks for sharing.
I just hope that it's not ''stop the awakening ancient evil that will destroy the world''. And yeah, I'm surprised that they are using other people as consultants, while apparently ignoring Ed. Heck, even for the SCAG, Ed only did *unofficial* consulting. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 23 Nov 2015 21:18:43 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 21:15:54
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They consulted Pendleton Ward? That's cool.
What time is it?
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 22:17:02
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| Is plundering the Uthgardt ancestral holy mounds ever a good idea? |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 22:54:22
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
They consulted Pendleton Ward? That's cool.
What time is it?
Adventure Time! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 23:07:37
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*Shrugs* All I get out of this is WotC is not supporting the product, only 15 employees, two of which worked on the card game.
Seeking to get more interest from new players by doing a Greyhawk game and maybe reducing Realms games.
It kinda of reminds me of cutting tax rates will pay off National debt. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 00:09:36
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| I'm surprised he could speak with all that crap coming out of his mouth. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 02:15:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I'm surprised he could speak with all that crap coming out of his mouth.
Another well mannered and positive comment from Shadowsoul....  |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 04:40:53
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Folks, it would be really, really nice if someone associated with WotC could make some sort of statement without people rushing in to take it the worst possible way and spew negativity all over the place.
I get enough of that crap on the news. I don't need to see it here, too.   |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 05:00:34
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I actually do think there's a lot to like about the message. Sounds like we are going to see (some?) old settings come back... at least the ones that have a clear identity. He sounds friendly to the idea of resurrecting Ravenloft -- even Masque of the Red Death.
I think Greyhawk just needs some individuality. Something that makes it (1) stand out from the hypothetical crowd of medieval settings, and (2) clearly distinct from the Realms. Personally I think that's totally possible, but Greyhawk needs its own Ed; a prolific writer who is passionate about that setting and about showing its unique appeal.
Ditto Planescape and Spelljammer, hopefully, and I'd like to see D20 Dark Matter come back. It looks like they're trying to maximize the "spread" of their settings -- you like space, we have that, you like dungeons, we have that, you like postapocalypse, we have that -- and Spelljammer would be a strong contribution to that.
Since the Realms has links to whatever we like, every revamped setting increases the size of our universe.
Good times ahead. |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 05:17:55
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| Beyond the obvious allusions to an upcoming Ravenloft project, it sure sounds like WotC is trying to figure out new Greyhawk material. The barbarian mounds could be a reference to the Cairn Hills. Although the airship reference makes me think of Forgotten Realms's Halrua, or Eberron's airships. Or Mystara. |
- Ryan |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 05:45:18
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As much as I love Spelljammer, I don't see it getting brought back. Some of the Spelljammer stuff was great, some was crap, and overall, I think it suffered from people being unable to suspend their disbelief with regards to space travel. Flying 50-ton reptiles that breathe fire or lightning? Sure! Mumbling a few words and instantly being someplace else? Right on! Traveling in space on an open-decked wooden ship? What the hey, man, that doesn't make sense!
I never have understood how belief can be suspended for one unrealistic concept, but not for another that's just as unrealistic. It's like believing in Santa but thinking the Tooth Fairy is too far-fetched an idea to be real.
As for Greyhawk... I never got that much into the setting, and I'm certainly not trying to bash it. But when I first read some of the novels and such, the impression I got was of a patchwork quilt: here's one piece, here's another next to it that's wildly different, and here's a third one that's different from the other two -- and yet, despite being right next to each other, they all seem disconnected from and not affecting any of the others. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Nov 2015 05:47:56 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 05:54:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
And yeah, I'm surprised that they are using other people as consultants, while apparently ignoring Ed.
Was there anything in the recording to indicate this? After all, they named one consultant, not all of them.
We know Ed's still writing for the Realms; THO keeps dropping notes about Ed working on the Realms or completing a novel.
If he's not on the current roster of outside consultants WotC are talking to as part of this
new program they've started, it doesn't follow he's been cut off. He's been consulting for decades, one way or another. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 13:03:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
*Shrugs* All I get out of this is WotC is not supporting the product, only 15 employees, two of which worked on the card game.
Seeking to get more interest from new players by doing a Greyhawk game and maybe reducing Realms games.
It kinda of reminds me of cutting tax rates will pay off National debt.
Greyhawk might indeed have broader appeal. It has got that Gygaxian mystique, is popular among many old school guys, is the source of many things ' core' or iconic to the game, was the official setting in 3E, had RPGA support for longer than FR (I think), and was the setting of several popular adventure paths from Paizo.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 13:10:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
And yeah, I'm surprised that they are using other people as consultants, while apparently ignoring Ed.
Was there anything in the recording to indicate this? After all, they named one consultant, not all of them.
We know Ed's still writing for the Realms; THO keeps dropping notes about Ed working on the Realms or completing a novel.
If he's not on the current roster of outside consultants WotC are talking to as part of this
new program they've started, it doesn't follow he's been cut off. He's been consulting for decades, one way or another.
You may be totally right, that's why I said ''apparently''. It's just that I find it discouraging that Ed is not even mentioned, when they make this kind of announcements. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 13:11:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As much as I love Spelljammer, I don't see it getting brought back. Some of the Spelljammer stuff was great, some was crap, and overall, I think it suffered from people being unable to suspend their disbelief with regards to space travel. Flying 50-ton reptiles that breathe fire or lightning? Sure! Mumbling a few words and instantly being someplace else? Right on! Traveling in space on an open-decked wooden ship? What the hey, man, that doesn't make sense!
I never have understood how belief can be suspended for one unrealistic concept, but not for another that's just as unrealistic. It's like believing in Santa but thinking the Tooth Fairy is too far-fetched an idea to be real.
As for Greyhawk... I never got that much into the setting, and I'm certainly not trying to bash it. But when I first read some of the novels and such, the impression I got was of a patchwork quilt: here's one piece, here's another next to it that's wildly different, and here's a third one that's different from the other two -- and yet, despite being right next to each other, they all seem disconnected from and not affecting any of the others.
Novels?
GH novels have almost nothing to do with the development of the setting. Look at the Folio, the boxed sets, and the modules. It is very much a game setting, not a literary setting. |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 14:06:18
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Greyhawk, like the Scarred Lands, is very much a game setting.
The novels have very little to do with the actual setting, unless Nerull really is god-king of the 'loths. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 14:44:59
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As much as I love Spelljammer, I don't see it getting brought back. Some of the Spelljammer stuff was great, some was crap, and overall, I think it suffered from people being unable to suspend their disbelief with regards to space travel. Flying 50-ton reptiles that breathe fire or lightning? Sure! Mumbling a few words and instantly being someplace else? Right on! Traveling in space on an open-decked wooden ship? What the hey, man, that doesn't make sense!
I never have understood how belief can be suspended for one unrealistic concept, but not for another that's just as unrealistic. It's like believing in Santa but thinking the Tooth Fairy is too far-fetched an idea to be real.
As for Greyhawk... I never got that much into the setting, and I'm certainly not trying to bash it. But when I first read some of the novels and such, the impression I got was of a patchwork quilt: here's one piece, here's another next to it that's wildly different, and here's a third one that's different from the other two -- and yet, despite being right next to each other, they all seem disconnected from and not affecting any of the others.
Novels?
GH novels have almost nothing to do with the development of the setting. Look at the Folio, the boxed sets, and the modules. It is very much a game setting, not a literary setting.
I never said it wasn't a game setting. Kindly DO NOT put words in my mouth.
But when I read novels from the creator of a setting, and I get the impression from those novels that that setting was assembled by just tossing in things as they came to mind, then it doesn't make me want to know more about the setting.
Gary Gygax may have given much thought to these different countries and cultures and how they'd interact -- but I didn't see that in his novels. Greyhawk may not have been intended to be a literary setting, but novels are a great way to showcase a game setting... And Gary's books not only failed to do that, they gave me an impression of the setting that made me actively avoid it.
I have never gotten that same vibe from any other novels I've read. Even if the novels just focus on a small area and not a larger part of the world, I've never gotten that feeling that other countries and cultures were just tossed into the mix, with no thought about the overall feeling or how these elements would interact with each other.
And oh ye dancing gods, nothing can excuse naming an elf "Melf." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 15:02:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
*Shrugs* All I get out of this is WotC is not supporting the product, only 15 employees, two of which worked on the card game.
Seeking to get more interest from new players by doing a Greyhawk game and maybe reducing Realms games.
It kinda of reminds me of cutting tax rates will pay off National debt.
Yep, that's what I saw, WotC appears to have a glaring lack of vision.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 15:06:20
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Melf got the name from a kid named Luke...Luke Gygax.
Consider Melf the Elf to be similar to Herman the Human.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 15:13:19
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I'm so sick of the current approach that I think I'm done with 5e, or just about done.
I don't give 2 sh*ts about Perkins story lines, I'm not a fan of being rail roaded into seasonal stories I care nothing about.
And does Perkins honestly think that his APs serve 100% of D&D fans, because there are many of us with a growing contempt for them.
I want a proper FRCG, not some anorexic half arse attempt at sort of almost one.
And I'm not a Greyhawk fan, but if I was I'd be pissed at Perkins for saying no to the setting.
And I think people are dreaming if they think that a Ravenloft product is coming out. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 15:44:46
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| Nothing -- not one single product -- is ever going to serve 100% of D&D fans. If you don't like it, don't buy it -- but don't bitch about something not meeting an unreasonable expectation. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 15:53:46
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Cranky One is cranky.
Chill, bro. I' m just letting you know that the novels have very little to do with the development of the published game setting. And most of the Gord books came out after Gygax left TSR. Many fans ignore the Rose Estes stuff. That really does not leave much.
Quag Keep, sure, but good luck making it match up. It's pre commercial publication WoG, anyway.
FR has waaaaaay more novels, and there was clearly a strong tie in between the fiction line and the development of the game setting after the 2E era kicked off.
Novel continuity means pretty much nothing in GH. It seems to be a big deal in FR. |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 24 Nov 2015 15:55:04 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 15:55:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I never said it wasn't a game setting. Kindly DO NOT put words in my mouth.
Wooly, take it easy, OK? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 16:06:34
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Greyhawk, like the Scarred Lands, is very much a game setting.
The novels have very little to do with the actual setting, unless Nerull really is god-king of the 'loths.
Yup.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 21:00:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's like believing in Santa but thinking the Tooth Fairy is too far-fetched an idea to be real.
the impression I got was of a patchwork quilt: here's one piece, here's another next to it that's wildly different, and here's a third one that's different from the other two -- and yet, despite being right next to each other, they all seem disconnected from and not affecting any of the others.
Completely agree with this. I never read any of the GH novels, partly because I never saw them in stores, but I didn't go looking for them either.
It's not that GH couldn't be as good as FR... it just wasn't, and I think the reason is because the Realms had already enjoyed a lot more development and thought when it was published. The realms of FR fit together into regions and sorta 'systems' and it helped me get into the setting because it felt real.
I suspect (and I admit I'm not an expert) one of the issues Spelljammer faced as a setting was that it was the first of its kind. Every other space setting is set in a modern or futuristic time frame, with phasers and Gauss this and graviton that... Spelljammer was brilliant as a medieval space setting. It's not futuristic. It's not trying to force StarTrek into your FR game. It's swords and sorcery on ships, exploring not just "what's on the other side of those mountains" but other homeworlds.
But one big nail in Spelljammer's coffin was that there wasn't (that I saw) adequate support from TSR to justify going to other planets. All we've seen of Toril (considering that Kara-Tur, Zakhara, the Hordelands, and Maztica weren't fleshed out) is the northwest corner of one continent. The situation is similar in Greyhawk and Mystara... part of one continent. So the burden on DMs becomes even greater when the PCs can go anywhere, not just on one planet but piles of planets. Great for DMs who have the time to develop multiple new campaign settings; painful for those who don't. I can see DMs being afraid of "so what do we find when we go here?"
Since TSR was giving us a vehicle without destinations, we didn't jump up all at once and buy it. And they stupidly concluded that we would never be interested, and stopped producing it.
That's one possibility anyway.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 21:24:23
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When I read the summary, I got that Chris was interested in a variety of concepts. I see that not everybody read it that way, but I did, and I feel like it's significant for me to get a positive read on it.
It's really weird for me (after really wanting to see everyone involved with 4Eing the Realms flogged and blacklisted from the gaming industry) to be a voice of optimism amid others who now believe that nothing good will ever come out of WotC. I don't know if all the lessons from 4e have been learned, and I don't know if changes are being made for the right reasons, but it's apparent to me (even me!) that the Realms is better off now than it was a few years ago, and I feel like we --as fans of the Realms-- should be holding paramount our celebration of that. Cuz if we're not fans, then what are we even doing here?
Not intended as a flame. Just a question. Even I'm saying "yea, this is an improvement, there's hope for these Coastal Wizardy-type guys." What's your excuse for being sour? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2015 : 22:58:54
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
It's not that GH couldn't be as good as FR... it just wasn't, and I think the reason is because the Realms had already enjoyed a lot more development and thought when it was published. The realms of FR fit together into regions and sorta 'systems' and it helped me get into the setting because it felt real.
The actual source material may have been much better, and may have smoothed out the rough edges... I don't know because my first impression was the novels, and that first impression was far from favorable. I didn't dislike the setting, I just didn't see anything of interest.
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
I suspect (and I admit I'm not an expert) one of the issues Spelljammer faced as a setting was that it was the first of its kind. Every other space setting is set in a modern or futuristic time frame, with phasers and Gauss this and graviton that... Spelljammer was brilliant as a medieval space setting. It's not futuristic. It's not trying to force StarTrek into your FR game. It's swords and sorcery on ships, exploring not just "what's on the other side of those mountains" but other homeworlds.
There was a game called Space:1889, back in the day. It was an alt-history, Victorian-era space travel thing. Never played it myself, but I remember seeing the ads in Dragon -- I'm fairly certain it predated Spelljammer. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Nov 2015 22:59:41 |
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Chris Perkins on new Story Lines
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