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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Nov 2015 : 03:27:15
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Not for anything like canonical FR, but the chat about drow deities, the Seldarine, and all that has got me back to a silly old idea of mine. It would need to be used in a homebrew because it is a pretty major change to a setting like FR.
Surface elves are typically CE Lolth worshippers . What better place for spider loving villains than Mirkwood type forests?
Dark elves are typically CG Elistraee worshippers. They may rub dwarves the wrong way, but in the end they and the dwarves are on the same side against the evil monster races. Including those webby elves of the surface.
Both races include minorities of neutral aligned Druidic oriented elves.
This set up calls for a different take on the elf gods.
The Earth-Hollow ( placeholder name)
Deity of tree root systems, caverns, the womb, the intersection of underworld and surface lands, progenitor of the two elfin races, worms and bugs that crawl in the dirt
N
Aureshnee (was that it? Somebody help me out with the lore check), or as humans call her, Lolth the Demon Queen of Spiders
CE
Elistraee
CG
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2015 : 16:09:13
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| I think it is Araushnee ... a reference to Arachne. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 13 Nov 2015 16:09:46 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2015 : 16:49:40
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I am reminded of the moredhel in the Riftwar series, the evil elves known as dark elves or The Brotherhood of the Dark Path.
The backstory for them is that millennia before, these amoral godlike entities called the Valheru enslaved the elven race. When the Valheru were no more, the last of their number told the elves of the world they were free.
One group of elves thought this was all hunky-dory and went back to playing in the woods as they always had. This group became the regular elves, or eledhel.
Another group had directly served the Valheru, as body servants, slaves, sex toys, etc. This group had seen firsthand the might of their now-absent masters, and they hungered to possess that might themselves. So they made a point of trying to reclaim that might by doing things like collecting Valheru artifacts and hanging out in former Valheru strongholds. This became the Dark Path, and those elves became the moredhel.
There were some other groups of elves, too, but they're not relevant to this discussion.
Here's the fun bit, though: the biggest physical different between eledhel and moredhel is that eledhel tend to be fair-haired, and moredhel tend to be dark-haired -- though this is not an absolute. The two types of elves recognize each other on site; it's some sort of aura thing. But -- and this is the big one -- it's possible for moredhel to renounce the Dark Path and Return to the eledhel. When this happens, the elder spellcasters of the eledhel (the Spellweavers) enact a ritual spell, and though physically unchanged, the moredhel suddenly becomes an eledhel. That aura that marked the moredhel as a Dark Brother is changed, and suddenly every just sees a dark-haired elf.
It's not mentioned in the books, but assumably, an eledhel can fall and become a Dark brother.
Some moredhel live in the forests and are just as skilled at woodslore as elves are. Other moredhel live in the mountains and tend to be somewhat larger than their forest cousins. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2015 : 17:03:16
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Interesting idea, this could be in an time line were Araushnee succeeds in overtrowing Corellon.
I think the Seldarine could have VERY different members in this universe.
Neo Seldarine, headed by Araushnee:
-Malar - worshipped by wood elves, wild elves and especially Lythari.
-Umberlee - patron of the Sea Elves.
-Fenmarel - Seduced by Araushnee, Fenmarel is still one of the less Evil members of Neo Seldarine.
-Auril The Queen of Air And Darkness- Patron of Avariel, she is also worshipped by many more evil Dark Elves. While many say Auril's share wickedness eclipses even that of Araushnee, she is distant from the rest of Neo Seldarine, and is suspected to harbor a desire to overtrow Araushnee.
Fallen Seldarine: headed By Eilistraee, these elves deities are patrons to the Subterran Dark Elves, although Eilistraee's worship is by far greater than that of other members of Fallen Seldarine.
- Vhaeraun - Vhaeraun was terrified by how his betrayal caused the death of his father, and how his mother corrupted the surfrace elves. This motivated Vhaeraun to defect to his sister's side. Alignment : Chaotic Neutral.
-Zandilar the Dancer- The primary Dark Elf Goddess of Love and Desire. Zandilar is also the sole survivor of the Yuir pantheon, slaughtered by the Neo Seldarine. Zandilar is the lover of Vhaeraun, but many say the relationship is mostly fuelled by lust not love. Zandilar and Vhaeraun have together spawned the god
-Selvatarm- Dark Elf god that governs martial skill, war and valor, may be the second most popular god among Dark Elves, because of his heroic deeds before ascension to full godhood, as well through his avatars. While he's the child of Zandilar and Vhaeraun, he was basically brought up by his aunt, and he probably considers Eilistraee as more as his mother, than he does Zandilar.
There should be at least a bit more deities in both pantheons, but that's all I came up with as of now.
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Edited by - Baltas on 13 Nov 2015 20:20:30 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2015 : 18:46:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Interesting idea, this could be in an time line were Araushnee succeeds in overtrowing Corellon.
I think the Seldarine could have VERY different members in this universe.
Neo Seldarine, headed by Araushnee:
-Malar - worshipped by wood elves, wild elves and especially Lythari.
-Umberlee - patron of the Sea Elves.
-Fenmarel - Seduced by Araushnee, Fenmarel is still one of the less Evil members of Neo Seldarine.
-Auril The Queen of Air And Darkness- Patron of Avariel, she is also worshipped by many more evil Dark Elves. While many say Auril's share wickedness eclipses even that of Araushnee, she is distant from the rest of Neo Seldarine, and is suspected to harbor a desire to overtrow Araushnee.
Fallen Seldarine: headed By Eilistraee, these elves deities are patrons to the Subterran Dark Elves, although Eilistraee's worship is by far greater than that of other members of Fallen Seldarine.
- Vhaeraun - Vhaeraun was terrified by death by how his betrayal caused the death of his father, and how his mother corrupted the surfrace elves. This motivated Vhaeraun to defect to his sister's side. Alignment : Chaotic Neutral.
-Zandilar the Dancer- The primary Dark Elf Goddess of Love and Desire. Zandilar is also the sole survivor of the Yuir pantheon, slaughtered by the Neo Seldarine. Zandilar is the lover of Vhaeraun, but many say the relationship is mostly fuelled by lust not love. Zandilar and Vhaeraun have together spawned the god
-Selvatarm- Dark Elf god that governs martial skill, war and valor, may be the second most popular god among Dark Elves, because of his heroic deeds before ascension to full godhood, as well through his avatars. While he's the child of Zandilar and Vhaeraun, he was basically brought up by his aunt, and he probably considers Eilistraee as more as his mother, than he does Zandilar.
There should be at least a bit more deities in both pantheons, but that's all I came up with as of now.
I like this take on an alternate timeline. What would happen to Aerdrie and Hanali? Araushnee/Lolth would have likely killed Sehanine, but what about those two? Lolth wanted to rule over the Seldarine, not destroy them, so she could have tried to corrupt both Aerdrie and Hanali, but I can't picture Araushnee actually managing to change them.
Hanali could join the Fallen Seldarine, or influence the elves and belong to the Neo-Seldarine in the same way Eilistraee belongs to the Dark Seldarine and influences the drow in the original timeline. Aerdrie would have to clash with Auril, though, given the shared area of influence/worshipers, so she would be forced to either flee, or change, or be subsumed. Deep Sashelas would also be in a similar situation, and in contrast with Umberlee. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2015 : 19:51:01
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Well, I'm not sure about Hanali Celanil and Aerdrie Faenya, that what I meant with "There should be at least a bit more deities in both pantheons, but that's all I came up with as of now".
Auril would probably want to destroy or subsume Aerdrie, and in this continuity, Auril might be one of the stronger members of Neo Seldarine, as she never got drained by Talos, and is the queen of the Unseelie Court, so she may use this have Araushnee let her kill Aerdrie.
Hanali Celanil might have survived, but Lolth may have corrupted her, like by forcing Hanali to subsume one of the Succubi Queens. Lolth/Araushnee in canon after all has some connection to Succubi, and is known for abducting succubi, as she created the first Yohol from abducted succubi. I guess she could have changed Hanali into her chief handmaiden, and that would make Hanali Celanil similar to Sharess when she was infuenced by Shar.
Hanali would still be probably seen as the nicest among Neo Seldarine, along with Fenmarel.
With Fallen Seldarine, it's a bit problematic, as I allready placed Zandilar as the love and lust goddess, as Zandilar is not very utilized, seeing how she was absorbed by Bast. While Sharess is in some part Zandilar, everything implies that she's much more Bast.
My above having version by having Hanali Celanil take Sharess' role, is a bit ironic, but I think it makes sense, seeing the what if nature of my idea.
Another idea could be Hanali and Zandilar merged, because Hanali being greviously wounded, but Zandilar would be more dominant, if changed into more less neutral and more good.
Indeed the third idea is that Hanali would a borderline member of Neo Seldarine, like canon Eilistraee in the Dark Seldarine, and worshipped by good surfrace elves.
I guess though a lot of Seldarine would perish in the war between Araushnee and Corellon. I imagined Deep Sashelas as one of the causalities although he could be just reduced to an Archfey worshipped by the benevolent Sea Elves and water Fey. I'm still thinking about others, like Erevan Ilesere. Sehanine Moonbow and Labelas Enoreth, I think that would be killed by Araushnee, as I think they would never side with her, and Sehanine is a prominent enemy of Araushnee/Lolth from the very start. |
Edited by - Baltas on 13 Nov 2015 22:42:10 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2015 : 00:18:00
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| Yay, fun feedback and new ideas! |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2015 : 18:32:36
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Glad you like them. Also, I think that Erevan Ilesere would never serve Lolth/Araushnee, due to Araushnee's aliance with Auril/Aurilandür The Queen of Air and Darkness, seeing how Erevan is also a member of the Seelie Court(Erevan is called "The Jack of the Seelie Court", suggesting he may be Puck/Robin Goodfellow).
So the share enimity between a Seelie Court member(Erevan), and the Queen of the Unseelie Court(Auril), would make Erevan's presence in Neo Seldarine impossible, I think.
So I guess Erevan Ilesere would become a member of Fallen Seldarine, or move fully into the Seelie Court, and be worshipped by both non-evil or rebelious surfrace elves, and dark elves. Even if wasn't a member of Fallen Seldarine, I guess he would be a close ally of them. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2015 : 18:47:34
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Also, another idea could be adding Dalamar from Krynn, being brough bt Eilistraee as an non-evil counterpart to Kiaransalee, and given the power a demigod, along with redemption., and full shift towards True Neutral(he seemed to be already going in that direction). Not to mention, Dalamar is aquinted with Toril thanks to contacts with Elminster(although those aren't 100% canon...), althoug he would be a very freeshly ascended member of Fallen Seldarine, and a Demigod of around Divine Rank 2, I think. He would be known as Dalamar the Grey XD.
For Neo Seldarine, an idea could be promoting Malkizid to a demigod, that would be worshipped mainly by Sun Elves, and would promote creation of Fey'rii and Daemonfey.
Another candidate for an evil light themed deity in Fallen Seldarine, is Karontor. Karontor was once described as beautifull and "shinning", and Araushnee would restore him to that state, or at least mostly.
Malkizid or Karontor could be used to also lure Dark Elves into the worship of Neo Seldarine. Malkizid manipulated Drow in canon, and Fomorians in 4E were Rulers of the Feydark, the Underdark of Feywild. I guess Karontor could a Shinning God, that would lure Dark Elves with the promise of returing their society to Surfrace.
As Malkizid's and Karontor's use in my ideas overlap somewhat, a idea could be that Araushnee let Karontor to subsume Malkizid, which resulted in Karontor regaining his former beauty. |
Edited by - Baltas on 14 Nov 2015 19:05:32 |
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Surface webby elves
