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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Oct 2015 : 06:41:15
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I'm considering updating my notes for my next campaign for the 5e era (it will be a player vote) and wanted to wrap my head around what happened in the 4e era so I can acknowledge and respect it while also explaining why things are now different.
The part I'm having trouble finding information about is the gods that were revealed to have in fact been other gods all along (most famous example was Gruumsh and Talos). The only gods I can find is what follows:
Gruumsh - Talos, Kozah
Selune - Sehanine Moonbow
Bane - some of the goblin deities.
Chauntea - Yondalla
Silvanus - Rillifane Ralathil
Is this all of them? We're the rest revealed as primordial/exarchs/left unmentioned?
If yes, were there any exarchs not mentioned in the 4e FRCG?
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DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2015 : 11:16:58
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Well, Hanali Celanil was revealed to be the same as Sune, Aerdrie Faenya as the same as Akadi, and Auril the same as The Queen of Air and Darkness.
Only really Auril being the same as The Queen of Air and Darkness was properly developed though, with Silvanus freeing her from the influence of Tharizdun's Black Gem, and devoped lore about her in an article by Brain R. James, Hall of the Frost Maiden:
http://www.wizards.com/files/367_Realmslore.pdf
And this one actually fits nicelly, as both Auril and The Queen of Air and Darkness were somewhat underused, and both seemed to in part inspired by Gaelic goddess Cailleach, with some research pointing out the tirle The Queen of Air and Darkness, might have been one of Cailleach's titles. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2015 : 12:51:36
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I'd recommend not merging ANY deity. Pretty much every instance of it has no benefit at all to a campaign. In a world with literally hundreds of gods, combining two because you feel like it does not make much sense and has even less effect.
As far as "exarchs" go - they used the term to include demigods, quasi-gods, hero-deities, and most of the lesser gods. There are TONS of these. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2015 : 13:11:39
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| Banjo the Clown was revealed to be an aspect of Spongebob. |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2015 : 13:14:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I'd recommend not merging ANY deity. Pretty much every instance of it has no benefit at all to a campaign. In a world with literally hundreds of gods, combining two because you feel like it does not make much sense and has even less effect.
Although not canon (and I realize this forum is meant to be canon) here's what I've done with Amaunator and Lathander:
When the Spellplague erupted and people fled from the worship of Lathander, a historian by the name of Loris Phaelin saw the chance to capitalists on the occasion and declared himself an adherent of Amaunator. In order to attract the worship of the Lathanderites he revealed what has become known as the heresies. That Lathander had not died but had been reborn in his older incarnation of Amaunator.
The High Priest (and only priest) of Amaunator quickly gained a following, including among the priests of Lathander. Seeing that their conversion would add to his credibility he accepted them as adherents, but required they follow the strict practices of Amaunator and abandon all the trappings of Lathander. This successfully stamped out most worship of Lathander and saw the rebirth of the Amaunator church, something which had not existed since the fall of Netheril.
With the return of the Weave those few adherents who had adhered to the teachings of Lathander came out and raised their voice to declare that Lathander too had been reborn. Trapped in it's own propaganda the church of Amaunator was torn as many of it's priests supported the Lathanderites and switched allegiances to Lathander, believing they were simply serving a new aspect of the same god.
Today the Amaunatori faithful are but a shell of what they once were. They have denounced Loris Phaelin as a heretic and have worked to distance themselves from the former church. The older priests have a bitter hatred for the Lathanderite clergy while some of the younger ones have made peace with the past and see no reason to hold animosity towards Lathander or his priests. Some have even made overtures towards sympathetic churches to include a small shrine to Amaunator and permit both priest hoods to operate from the same church.
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To me this respects what came before (acknowledges the Netheril boxed set that said Amaunator was dead, acknowledges 4th ed bringing Amaunator back, acknowledges 5th edition bringing back Lathander) while building atop it and making the gameworld richer (now we have a small minority continuing to worship Amaunator. When you enter a dawnbrjnger's church you might find priests belonging to two separate gods. Players can explore how the two faiths differ if they so desire). Reason I want to know which gods were merged is not because I want to continue it, but I simply want to acknowledge it and weave into the history of the world (Gruumsh now has a following among humans despite the fact the worship of Talos is now active once more. The Circle of the Rust and Worm may continue to venerate Gruumsh while the Lords of Tempest have rededicated their work to Talos).
Thanks for the god info as well. Let me know if anyone else is aware of any other merging a. It seems there were a lot less than I had once thought. It seems most were simply demoted or killed. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2015 : 15:29:08
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Well, Malar killed and absorbed/subsumed Herne, possibly twice as Herne seemed to re-emerge. Malar also possibly subsumed/absorbed the goblinoid deity Stalker.
Ishtar gave Isis her portfolio and avatar, and I think it counts as a partial mergining. Sseth devoured/absorbed several other scalykind powers, including Varae, Sss'thasine'ss, Amphisbaena the World Serpent, Squamata the Black and possibly even Merrshaulk. This could a rare occasion when an aspect/avatar(Sseth), took over the main deity(here Merrshaulk), like with Rudra.
Bright Nydra was a lesser deity/denigod/exarch under Selune, before merging with Selune.
Bast and Zandilar the Dancer merged into Sharess, and she in turn was almost swallowed by Shar.
Other deites of Yuir, merged with members of Seldarine:
Elikarashae (subsumed by Shevarash)
Magnar the Bear (subsumed by Rillifane Rallathil)
Relkath of the Infinite Branches (subsumed by Rillifane Rallathil)
The Simbul (subsumed by Labelas Enoreth)
I wonder though if Elikarashae wasn't maybe originally an aspect of Eilistraee, seeing how very similar are their names, and how both were deities of the hunt. It would be very ironic though, seeing how Shevarash hates drow, and even for a time Eilistraee.
Eilistraee herself merged for a moment with her brother Vhaeraun into the Masked Lady.
Lolth absorbed Zinzerena, a hero-deity of drow.
Selvetarm absorbed the demon lord Zanassu, corrupting himself immensly in as a consequence.
Shar subsumed Ibrandul and Eshowdow(originally an aspect of Ubtao), although Ibrandul seems to have regained independent existence.
Tchazzar was eaten from inside by Tiamat, but was later summoned by her as an independant near deity/exarch, aparently of divine rank 0.
[EDIT]
Also, forgot about those:
Talona subsumed Sss'thasine'ss(a Yuan-Ti deity), and Kiputytto. Kiputytto might be even more absorbed, as Talona took on many of Kiputytto's features, and even her symbol.
Talos absorbed/subsumed many gods and demigods, quite a bit of those demigods raised by him in intention of subsuming them. Malyk was surelly subsumed by him, as was probably Bhaelros. There is also the matter of Kozah. Kozah looked and acted almost exacly like Talos of today, so it's quite possible Kozah rather subsumed or merged with a god named Talos, and took his name after the absorbtion/merger.
Ghaunadaur absorbed/subsumed Juiblex in the Realms. |
Edited by - Baltas on 24 Oct 2015 16:07:19 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2015 : 19:15:34
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| I think they are just ignoring most of the 4e lore at this point, and leaving it up to individual groups to decide if its true or not. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2015 : 19:21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think they are just ignoring most of the 4e lore at this point, and leaving it up to individual groups to decide if its true or not.
Yep, the new book seems to give a picture of the current era that is very similar to the beginning of the 3e era |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 01:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think they are just ignoring most of the 4e lore at this point, and leaving it up to individual groups to decide if its true or not.
That's pretty much the best way to handle it IMO. Those who dislike the lore can ignore it. I met my 5e group with the arrival of 4th ed and we played Living Forgotten Realms quite extensively and had quite a few characters we all liked. So for me I have no problem weaving that all in while progressing things largely to a 2e state. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 01:25:06
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Bane was not revealed AS some of the goblin deities, he managed to conquer their pantheon.
Herne is not returned, he died during the Time of Troubles - Malar is pretending to be him, like Shar pretends to be Ibrandul, Lolth pretends to be Zinzerena, etc.
Ghaunadaur did not subsume Juiblex, he merely poses as Juiblex in Faerun because Juiblex himself apparently ignores Toril's Material Plane.
I'm sure there's still more to be added to Baltas' list but they slip my mind at the moment. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 01:54:41
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Bane was not revealed AS some of the goblin deities, he managed to conquer their pantheon.
Herne is not returned, he died during the Time of Troubles - Malar is pretending to be him, like Shar pretends to be Ibrandul, Lolth pretends to be Zinzerena, etc.
Ghaunadaur did not subsume Juiblex, he merely poses as Juiblex in Faerun because Juiblex himself apparently ignores Toril's Material Plane.
I'm sure there's still more to be added to Baltas' list but they slip my mind at the moment.
Actually, Malar first killed, and ate/subsumed Herne on the planes tens of thousands of years ago, that's how Lolth noticed Malar first, as noted in Evermeet: Island of Elves.
Lolth doesn't just pretend to be Zinzerena, she absorbed her. Some of Zinzerena's personality remained within Lolth, and that caused Lolth to create Zinzerena avatars, and lead rebelions against her own rule. So there was a Zinzerena personality within Lolth. I think so at least.
Shar was said a few times to absorb the deities she subsumes/kills and steals portfolio of, and that was the case with Ibrandul and Eshowdow, and almost was the case with Sharess.
In general, when deities kill and take another deities portfolio and name, it's often rather unclear if they just took their power, and impersonate them, or if they outright absorbed them, at least up to a level. |
Edited by - Baltas on 25 Oct 2015 01:16:04 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 03:44:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Actually, Malar first killed, and ate/subsumed Herne on the planes tens of thousands of years ago, that's how Lolth noticed Malar first, as noted in Evermeet: Island of Elves.
Lolth doesn't just pretend to be Zinzerena, she absorbed her. Some of Zinzerena's personality remained within Lolth, and that caused Lolth to create Zinzerena avatars, and lead rebelions against her own rule. So there was a Zinzerena personality within Lolth. I think so at least.
I had read that Malar's *defeat* of Herne had led to him gaining Araushnee's attention for her Anti-Seldarine plot but I've not read Evermeet: Island of the Elves, which does indeed say *kill*. Of course, in Faiths & Avatars, Herne is stated as having been hunted & killed in the High Forest during the ToT.
The way I read it, Zinzerena's death caused Lolth to gain her portfolio of Chaos, and it was that which altered Lolth and caused her to foment rebellion against herself. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 25 Oct 2015 03:47:11 |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 08:53:55
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Of course, in Faiths & Avatars, Herne is stated as having been hunted & killed in the High Forest during the ToT.
Wel, with Gods, killing them, is often less hard than keeping them dead XD. So I think Herne might have re-emerged somehow, possibly as an archfey. But curiously, Herne was said to be evil on Toril, as opposed to his True Neutral alignment on other worlds. So ma take was that he was subsumed/absorbed by Malar for a time, but managed to separate, and become active in the High Forest and Great Dale.
But the time he was absorbed by Malar, left him corrupted, resulting in his evil alignment in the Realms. Alternatelly, Herne was killed, and Malar used his name for years, corrupting his faith, and that resulted in a corrupted Herne when he returned to life.
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
The way I read it, Zinzerena's death caused Lolth to gain her portfolio of Chaos, and it was that which altered Lolth and caused her to foment rebellion against herself.
Well, as I wrote before, it's often left ambigous. But the fact Lolth used Zinzerena's form and name while opposing herself, and the fact Lolth later was stated to have 8 personalities/aspects(one of which may be Zinzerena), implied she might have actually absorbed Zinzerena. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 20:35:11
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| I think the lore of gods merging pre-4e, such as the Yuir gods being absorbed by the Seldarine, will stay as it is, but any of the "reveals" the god X and god Z are the same that came about with 4e is either being ignored or they're going back and saying that X and Z are in fact different (which I prefer). |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 21:08:58
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Yeah, but I thin out of all of those reveals, Auril being The Queen of Air and Darkness actually worked. Auril and Queen of Air and Darkness(even before they were retconed as one being), both resembled Cailleach a Gaelic winter goddess. Indeed, some researchers theorize that the Queen of Air and Darkness, may have originated as an epitet of Cailleach.
Auril is even served by bheur hags, and Bheur is another of Cailleach's titles/names... |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 23:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
I think Herne might have re-emerged somehow, possibly as an archfey. But curiously, Herne was said to be evil on Toril, as opposed to his True Neutral alignment on other worlds. So ma take was that he was subsumed/absorbed by Malar for a time, but managed to separate, and become active in the High Forest and Great Dale.
But the time he was absorbed by Malar, left him corrupted, resulting in his evil alignment in the Realms. Alternatelly, Herne was killed, and Malar used his name for years, corrupting his faith, and that resulted in a corrupted Herne when he returned to life.
Well, the Herne killed during the ToT was described as a corrupted version of Malar's Master of the Hunt avatar. Legacy of the Green Regent described him as a neutral demigod worshiped by the orcs of the High Forest. The Herne from the Celtic Pantheon (that brought Herne to Toril) is described more like a wilder version of Odin from the Norse Pantheon.
So we've got three different descriptions of the same minor deity. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 01:21:19
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Indeed, Herne has connections to Odin, especially through king Herla, but Herne is also connected to several other specifically Celtic deities, like Cernunnos, or the elven king Gwyn ap Nudd/Oberon.
Cernunnos,Herne, and Gwyn ap Nudd, also resembled Freyr, as acording to some descriptions, Freyr also had antlers, and like Gwyn ap Nudd, was the king of elves.
Another interesting fact is that Herne was also worshipped in the Great Dale, near Rashemen were the similar entity the Stag King resided. |
Edited by - Baltas on 26 Oct 2015 01:31:37 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2015 : 05:36:50
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| There is a section of forest called Herne's Wood in the jungle on the border of the Utter East and Zakhara. I find this odd for several reasons, not the least of which being that's a region controlled by yakfolk. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Oct 2015 05:38:21 |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2015 : 11:12:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There is a section of forest called Herne's Wood in the jungle on the border of the Utter East and Zakhara. I find this odd for several reasons, not the least of which being that's a region controlled by yakfolk.
Well, there are few posibilities:
-The Imaskari gated a group of Mediterran Celts there long ago, as I think you proposed yourself Mark.
-The name of Herne arrived with the Ffolk and Northlander colonists, who just renamed the Wood after Herne.
-There were random human, elven, orcish or other worshippers of Herne in the region.
-On Toril, like on Earth, there was a proto-Indo-European group, that dwelled originally in this region, and worshipped Herne, before branching out to different groups, like Talfiri. It's possible the the Talfir and Arthraen, started as one group, before splitting, one group staying in the Area of Aglarond, Thesk, Ashanath, the Great Dale, Narfell, Yuirwood and Impiltur, becoming the Arthraen(and later Nar), while the rest traveled further west, up to the Western Heartlands and Sword Coast, becoming the Talfir. As the Arthraen-Talfir worshipped Herne before the split, it would explain why Herne was worshipped in both High Forest(Talfir?) and Great Dale(Arthraen?). |
Edited by - Baltas on 27 Oct 2015 11:54:51 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2015 : 15:19:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Only really Auril being the same as The Queen of Air and Darkness was properly developed though, with Silvanus freeing her from the influence of Tharizdun's Black Gem, and devoped lore about her in an article by Brain R. James, Hall of the Frost Maiden:
http://www.wizards.com/files/367_Realmslore.pdf
And this one actually fits nicelly, as both Auril and The Queen of Air and Darkness were somewhat underused, and both seemed to in part inspired by Gaelic goddess Cailleach, with some research pointing out the tirle The Queen of Air and Darkness, might have been one of Cailleach's titles.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Baltas. I pride myself on the depth of research I put into the Realmslore I craft and its pleasing to see it well received. The Hall of the Frost Maiden article was planned to be the first of a series of god articles, which sadly did not come to pass. The next article was to cover Silvanus' astral domain and give further details on the Stormstar Requiem. One of these days... |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2015 : 17:28:17
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| That really is a shame that more about the Stormstar Requiem never saw print... but my biggest regret about the 4E era was that your Rashemen article - which hopefully would have been accompanied by a map by Mike Schley - never saw publication. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2015 : 20:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Thanks for the vote of confidence Baltas. I pride myself on the depth of research I put into the Realmslore I craft and its pleasing to see it well received. The Hall of the Frost Maiden article was planned to be the first of a series of god articles, which sadly did not come to pass. The next article was to cover Silvanus' astral domain and give further details on the Stormstar Requiem. One of these days...
That's sad those articles didn't into frutition, I really loved your articles Brian, along of course the rest of your work. I hope you'll be able to write articles in some form, or at least use the lore you came up in future. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2015 : 23:16:51
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| These articles would be in Dragon magazine I take it? I stopped subscribing to that magazine because I was only interested in certain articles and it wasn't worth the subscription. But I would be interested on lore pretaining to the gods :) |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2390 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2015 : 00:56:33
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
I'm considering updating my notes for my next campaign for the 5e era (it will be a player vote) and wanted to wrap my head around what happened in the 4e era so I can acknowledge and respect it while also explaining why things are now different.
To call things their own names, 4e lore contradicts pre-existing lore on any non-trivial topic more often than not.
Thus, ultimately there are 3 choices as to what to do about it:
1) Drop 4e
2) Hold 4e, drop anything that doesn't fit.
3) Cherry pick case-by-case.
"Explaining why" in this context practically means "pretending that massive contradictions don't exist".
Which is obviously convenient for someone who screwed up in the first place, but for the end user it's just manually mounting needless headache on top of already existing one.
Do you need that?
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think they are just ignoring most of the 4e lore at this point, and leaving it up to individual groups to decide if its true or not.
That's pretty much the best way to handle it IMO. Those who dislike the lore can ignore it.
The problem is, to support this "leaving it up", every area where 4e contradicts pre-existing lore must be mumbled around. The inevitable result: lack of any continuity and compatibility at all - just like with Darkvision travesty, only applied to every other subject of Realmslore.
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2015 : 01:27:36
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
To call things their own names, 4e lore contradicts pre-existing lore on any non-trivial topic more often than not.
Thus, ultimately there are 3 choices as to what to do about it:
1) Drop 4e
2) Hold 4e, drop anything that doesn't fit.
3) Cherry pick case-by-case.
I've chosen:
4) Explain things in a way that respects the 4e canon while still adhering to canon from earlier editions.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
"Explaining why" in this context practically means "pretending that massive contradictions don't exist".
"The churches lost their ability to cast divine spells when the weave was lost. Combined with the apocalyptic events of entire nations disappearing and large swathes of people dying or being horribly maimed many proclaimed that the gods had abandoned them. Some faiths were able to weather this by standing alone. Other faiths worked together and by combining their efforts were able to bring stability to the world. Those faiths whose priests relearned how to cast spells first had a significant advantage and many faiths flocked to them as a result." By stepping away from "everything said in the 4e FRCG is the objective truth and instead documented what was believed by the majority of people or people in the know (for some areas)" the two sets of canon can be reconciled.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
for the end user it's just manually mounting needless headache on top of already existing one.
Do you need that?
If I wanted to avoid it completely I'd just play in the 1st edition era. I'm not sure what already existing headache I should be having is in reference to. However I've yet to actually find a bit of lore that removed more options than it put forward.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
The problem is, to support this "leaving it up", every area where 4e contradicts pre-existing lore must be mumbled around. The inevitable result: lack of any continuity and compatibility at all - just like with Darkvision travesty, only applied to every other subject of Realmslore.
I don't know what you're referring to here. At the end of the day everyone has the following options:
1) Set the game in 1st edition era and ignore or cherry pick what canon they apply moving forward (campaign can actually start at any point in time).
2) Set the game in 2nd edition era and ignore or cherry pick what prior canon and future canon they apply moving forward (campaign can actually start at any point in time).
3) Set the game in 3rd edition era and ignore or cherry pick what prior canon and future canon they apply moving forward (campaign can actually start at any point in time).
4) Set the game in 4th edition era and ignore or cherry pick what prior canon and future canon they apply moving forward (campaign can actually start at any point in time).
5) Set the game in 5th edition era and ignore or cherry pick what prior canon and future canon they apply moving forward (campaign can actually start at any point in time).
If you see any option as a "travesty" than you're likely better off choosing a different option.
I understand this thread is focusing on some parts of the Forgotten Realms people dislike. But I think such topics should be something that can be discussed here (so as not to make anyone whose a fan of a particular era feel unwelcome). I realise the information I sought and what I plan to do with it won't be everyone's cup of tea. But it works for me and the information provided on the 4e canon has been helpful. So thankyou for everyone who participated. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
Edited by - JohnLynch on 28 Oct 2015 01:29:29 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2015 : 03:42:35
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think they are just ignoring most of the 4e lore at this point, and leaving it up to individual groups to decide if its true or not.
That's pretty much the best way to handle it IMO. Those who dislike the lore can ignore it.
The problem is, to support this "leaving it up", every area where 4e contradicts pre-existing lore must be mumbled around. The inevitable result: lack of any continuity and compatibility at all - just like with Darkvision travesty, only applied to every other subject of Realmslore.
However, it does suit their current style of lore-revelation. What you point-out would become a snowballing problem, had they any plans to 'dig deep' once again.
FR and D&D have become synonymous now - they only need enough to run adventures. It will never be what it once was; it can't, without a reboot. I think that ship has sailed. Either love what it's become, or find something else.
I hear the TEGG group has some great stuff in the works. 
This is not a direction I (or others) wanted - sometimes when you run out of road, you have to pave a new one yourself. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Oct 2015 03:45:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2015 : 04:08:51
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| I'm not sure if the original topic has been sufficiently addressed or not... But I'd like to see us get back on it. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2015 : 14:39:34
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Also, I'm not sure if Silvanus and Rillifane Ralathil were explicedly connected, only that just Rillifane Ralathil's old worshippers, were worshiping Silvanus in the 4E era.
Although Silvanus and Rillifane being combined wouldn't be that jarring, seeing how there were some implied connection between the two before 4E. If I remember right, Silvanus, Rillifane Ralathil, and Emmantiensien, were said to be aspects of the Word Tree. Also, Mielikki in her elven aspect as Khalreshaar, is said to serve Rillifane Ralathil, instead of Silvanus, which was also something very curious. |
Edited by - Baltas on 28 Oct 2015 14:43:09 |
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4e: Gods revealed as other gods
