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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Sep 2015 : 01:15:38
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I've been working out the logistics of advancing a DR 1357 campaign to 5e with certain of the characters surviving the hard way (elves, dwarves) with some old characters coming out of retirement but being low level because they are "out of practice."
These particular characters amassed respectable but not realms-shaking wealth.
Does anyone have any lore, math, or links to other threads about the cost of living in the Realms? How much implied net income would a commoner expect to make in a year in a village? (Implied because they probably barter with crops and beer). What about a city? What would it cost to live a middle class or better lifestyle? Wealthy? For around 130 years?
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Edited by - Veritas on 14 Sep 2015 00:32:39
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2015 : 17:51:28
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I doubt that a commoner, be it a farmer or someone living in a city, would amass much wealth even if the worked their ass off for a few centuries.
When talking about respectable wealth I would think of some noble families that own a couple of big estates, some land off the city and have a lot of people work for them. They are richt but far from realms shaking. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2015 : 21:55:06
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Well as already indicted Wealth accumulation is hard to determine. There clearly is not set way to determine how much a profession or working a craft can earn and also retain.
3.5 did provide an income craft check that might serve to indicate how much money might be earned over years, however that does not help at all with how much expenses for living, taxes, causalities including theft.
You might consider using the NPC wealth calculation if the characters will start out with some levels, however that number is not realistic either. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2015 : 22:13:17
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The 5e PHB has a table for Lifestyle Expenses per day on page 157, and the DMG has a table on page 38 for starting wealth based on Character Level and what type of magic (low magic, high magic, standard) is present in your world. You could probably derive something from that.
Going by the Wealthy lifestyle expenses table in the PHB, you'll need ~189,800 gp for 130 years, not factoring in Shieldmeet every 4 years. Rate of 4gp / day, multiplied by 365 days in a year, and then multiplied by 130 years. If you include Shieldmeet, it's an additional 130 gp, or 189,930 gp.
If you do a modest lifestyle, the rate is 1 gp per day, which is 47,580 gp. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 14 Sep 2015 00:45:52 |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2015 : 00:46:32
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Thanks for those who chimed in and I hope others continue to. The wealth advancement has been a minor point in a couple of campaigns that we advanced from the early Realms to 5e but in this case, we're trying to work out actual wealth attrition.
One character, for example, was a originally a midlevel elf fightermage with around 130k GP when he retired around 1386 DR. Off camera he retired home to Evereska where he served in their military units, survived the Phaerimm assault, loses his family at that time, and stays elf military until shortly after the Spellplague hits. He abandons magic (because 4e magic) and spends his time in scholarly pursuits until around 1486 when he desires to venture out, in middle age at the age of 312, fully dedicated to the arcane arts.
We also have 2 dwarves in similar circumstances where they were steadily employed (blacksmithing, innkeeping, serving as warriors when called to duty).
All the characters had various degrees of employment, although I'm trying to figure out how much the wealth would stretch and how high on the hog they lived up to 5e. It will be an interesting twist experiencing the much older characters having lived through the ToT, Spellplague, and among other catastrophes.
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2015 : 01:28:31
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Hmm, the same section of the PHB for 5e lists the minimum cost of hiring an artisan (like a Blacksmith) in a price per day table on page 159. The text also notes that the table is a minimum price, and that more skilled craftsmen can charge more.
A Skilled artisan costs 2gp per day. I'd assume it doesn't take all day to make a single pair of horseshoes. A craftsman at a museum I went to once made tiny pocket sized horseshoes in front of you in a matter of minutes. So, I can assume that a skilled blacksmith could probably bring in ten, twenty gp a day easily, if he had a good reputation and such.
Given that 4gp per day is the going rate for a wealthy lifestyle, your dwarves could probably easily sustain themselves and their families if they simply shod two horses a day. Making a sword would cost 2gp plus half the sword's cost, so for 27 gp, you could make a blade for an adventurer and have a good bit of profit to live off of for a tenday or so, if you're wise with your profits. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2015 : 01:35:28
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Veritas You still have the problem of if they spent their wealth or added to it.
The elf in military employ clearly would be provided basic food and shelter plus a wage, for that time it is possible personal wealth increased if spending less then paid. Some of wealth however might have been given to family before they died. During the years of the Spellplague there is no income coming in so wealth would need to be spent on the basics of food and shelter, further to pursue knowledge likely a large expenditure for tomes or lore.
It depends on how they decided to spend their wealth or if they decided to save their wealth for a rainy day that never came. In part you would need to consider the way they lived as adventures to guess how they would spend money in semi-retirement. Of course if there were plans of how to spend wealth, retirement home, etc. that should be considered as well.
Wealth is easy to spend if they choose to do so living higher on the hog then if they were frugal and might have added to their wealth instead of spending some if no all of it.
Of course one reason to come out of retirement could be that wealth was going too fast for one reason or another. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2015 : 02:51:53
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Great points above. The players have basically indicated that their characters would probably put themselves off around what we may call middle class, but probably well above the means of the rank and file. In other words, they're all probably spending more than they're taking in although not profligate spending. I didn't want to go into detail about the work histories of the characters because I doubt that would interest anyone.
We may just handwave it that the elf spent his wealth and is nigh on destitute forcing him back on the open road, although he is a sage, while the dwarves' wealth has shrunk by 2/3rd by more prudent spending but they invested in their respective family members and clans. They leave their wealth behind for the benefit of (we'll say) their families, however, which makes them appropriately poor although with better starting equipment.
I had moved one of my own characters forward in another campaign but he had basically been banished from the Prime Material Plane for the duration of 4e and his worldly goods were long since redistributed in his presumed death.
Looking into the problem did make me wonder what the value of a gold coin would be compared to real world currency at this point in time. A few gold has been compared to a very significant sum in FR novels at one point or another, but then you look at Ed's books where characters like Mirt and Manshoon are blithely moving around millions of gp worth of funds. Just look at the bartering in Spellstorm for some of those numbers. Admittedly they should be high end on the wealth spectrum but they do come across as having truly obscene access to funds and it makes me wonder just how much coins trading coasters and merchant families are able to muster and how that compares to the common man. |
Edited by - Veritas on 14 Sep 2015 02:56:18 |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2015 : 01:10:58
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| A very Realmsian solution for me would be to say that by the time the campaign starts the players have invested in a number of risky ventures that went bad. Some of them might still have coin, but it's locked into assets and so their cash on hand is actually quite modest. They may have also set up some scholarships, invested in their hometown's temple, library or city infrastructure which was then destroyed in the Spellplague. Some of them may have developed some addictions or gotten some collections that are entirely worthless and yet expensive to have accumulated. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
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Average Lifetime wealth?
