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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jul 2015 : 08:35:57
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Is there any issue with cutting and pasting spells from say the PGTF into a 5th edition campaign? The only difficulty I can see is that 5th edition have 6 saving throw types while 3ed only has 3 Fort (Con) Will(Wis) and Reflext (Dex) and some of the 3ed spells saving throws might fit bettter into the other 3 in 5th edition.
Anyone done any 3ed/5ed conversions?
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2015 : 14:41:46
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found this thread interesting:
http://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2rzjwx/spell_conversion_projects_for_5e/
for Saves it suggests:
* Con, Paralyzation, Poison, or Death Magic – Constitution
* Will, Rod, Staff, Wand – Wisdom (dex if location appropriate ie targeting a square)
* Petrification or Polymorph – Constitution (Wis if mind effecting)
* Reflex, Breath Weapon – Dexterity (con if non-damage effect)
* Spell – Wisdom (intelligence for illusions)
DC: Spell save DC is 8 + proficiency + attribute mod
maybe it helps you too :) |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2015 : 15:55:20
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Cool tks
I just noticed theres a Create new spells section in the 5ed DMG which would probably help reverse engineer 3ed spells into 5ed |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2015 : 18:59:29
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| Well for one its tricky since some 5e spells are more powerful than 3e ones and some 3e spells are better than 5e ones. The hardest part is figuring out what spells will require concentration. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2015 : 20:49:30
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I haven't done 3e to 5e transitions yet. But the above comments are right on, with the addition of something you alluded to.
There is a chart in the DMG for how much damage / healing a spell of a given level ought to put out. I'd make sure any spell I convert fits within that range. 
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2015 : 03:11:45
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| the big difference is that 3e spells that were higher level had higher saves. Thus, there was a reason for a higher level charm spell, etc... That concept is gone with 5e and its back to saving versus the spell and a 1st level spell is just as hard to resist as the 9th lvl... its just the 9th level likely does more damage. As a result, a low level save or die OR save or be debilitate spell in 3e would be drastic in 5e. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2015 : 20:45:52
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Here are a coule of conversions of some of my favorite 3.5 FR spells. Ball Ligtning for the awesome dungeon tailered spell, and Icelance for the iconic high altitude mage battles above and below icewhite clouds in Faerun skies.
Ball Lightning
5th level evocation spell
Casting time: one action
Range: 120 ft
Components: V,S,M (handful of copper and iron pellets)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
Six 3-foot-diameter balls of concentrated electricity appear that shed light as candles and move under your control. A ball of lightning deals 2d6 points of electricity damage to anything it touches, including creatures that attack it or move through it. When you create the balls of lightning, you mentally program them to move as you desire, even around corners. A ball can move up to 60 feet per round and flies with perfect maneuverability. When a lightning ball strikes a creature, the ball stops and remains in place for the remainder of the spell's duration. A ball dissipates if the distance between you and it exceeds the spell's range. A ball can only "see" under the available light conditions (including the light the ball itself sheds).
For example, you could program one lightning ball to follow the left wall of a corridor and strike the first creature it "sees," another to follow the right wall and do the same, and the remainder to follow 5 feet behind you in a semicircle. The first two lightning balls would turn corners to remain following the walls, even if this took them out of your line of sight, and strike the first creature they "see," which would cancel their program and leave them in their target's square.
Directing the balls is a free action on the round the spell is cast, and requires concentration on any other round. Reprogramming up to six balls costs a spellcasting action. A creature struck by a lightning ball or that touches one with natural or melee weapons gets a Reflex saving throw for half damage. Multiple balls are allowed to rest and attack in the same square. A creature struck by multiple balls of lightning in a round (or entering a square with multiple lightning balls) gets a saving throw for each. Stationary lightning balls can ignite flammable objects in the squares they occupy every round after the first.
At Higher Levels When casting the spell using a spell slot of level 6 or higher, create 2 more balls for every spell slot above 5th.
Icelance
4th level transmutation spell
Casting time: one action
Range: 120 ft
Components: V,S,M (at least 10 pounds of snow or ice)
Duration: Instanteous (special)
This spell requires a supply of approximately 10 lbs (4.5 kg) of ice, or the remains of an ice storm spell or similar effect to be active within reach of the caster. Icelance shapes the ice particles into a sharp lance in a few seconds and then propels the lance in a straight line toward a target you designate within range. Make a ranged spell attack on the target with an additional +2 to attack. On a hit the targets is stunned, and takes 3d6 cold and 3d6 piercing damage. Furthermore stunned creatures must make on a fortitude saving throw at the start of their turn. On a succesful save the stunning ends and they have halved speed untill their next turn.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2015 : 23:52:03
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| I like Ball Lightning. Icelance is way too powerful. A 4th level spell that deals 6d6 damage, imposes a significant status effect AND gets a buff to the attack roll is too good. I'd keep the damage at 5d6 (cold and piercing) and stuns but remove the bonus to attack. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2015 : 11:59:03
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Hmm. I guess the rare and limiting material component isn't enough to balance icelance in your eyes. Keep in mind that one cant easily cast this spell in a lot of the common climates in Faerun, unless you also combo an ice storm first.
I am more inclined to reduce the duration of the stun somehow, perhaps leaving it for one round only and reducing speed the next round without any saving throws.
Here another attempt of mine:
Aganazzar's Scorcher
2th level evocation spell
Casting time: one action
Range: Self (line out to 30ft)
Components: V,S,M (a red dragons scale that is not consumed in the casting)
Duration: Instanteous
A jet of roaring flame bursts from your outstretched hand going out in a 5ft wide line out to 30 ft. Any creatures and unattended objects in the spell's path take 2d8 points of fire damage, with a succesful dexterity saving throw halving the damage dealt.
At higher levels When casting the spell using a spell slot of level 3 or higher, deal 1d8 ponts of extra fire damage for each spell slot above 2nd level, with a maximum of 5d8 at a level 5 spell slot. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 16 Jul 2015 16:14:47 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2015 : 14:51:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Hmm. I guess the rare and limiting material component isn't enough to balance icelance in your eyes. Keep in mind that one cant easily cast this spell in a lot of the common climates in Faerun, unless you also combo an ice storm first.
It's been my experience that costly spell components rarely help mitigate a spell's effects. It will vary greatly from table to table (some tables don't even use spell components in their games) and from campaign to campaign. Coming across that much snow/ice isn't difficult if your adventuring in winter or in the North.
Second, the damage isn't terrible, 6d6 being sort of in the middle for a spell of that level. The range makes it a really good salvo spell too. The Stunned effect is pretty hard, but I'm actually OK with that too. What I don't really like is the +2 to attack. In 5e, with Bounded Accuracy SUCH a large factor in the game, having a +2 bonus is pretty darn amazing.
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I am more inclined to reduce the duration of the stun somehow, perhaps leaving it for one round only and reducing speed the next round without any saving throws.
That's a bit better.
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2015 : 16:59:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Icelance is way too powerful. A 4th level spell that deals 6d6 damage, imposes a significant status effect AND gets a buff to the attack roll is too good. I'd keep the damage at 5d6 (cold and piercing) and stuns but remove the bonus to attack.
How so? Dependence on the caster's attack is a drawback. Both fireball and lightning bolt in 5e do 8d6 as is (level 3), or 9d6 as level 4, AoE rather than single-target, and ST for full/half rather than attack (wizard's) for full/none.
AD&D1/2 version is Level 3, has attack at +4, damage 5d6, save or stun. And range 30'/CL. Static (not *CL) damage was a significant disadvantage, though. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 16 Jul 2015 17:02:01 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2015 : 17:20:55
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Hmm, but a ranged touch attack is not an option in 5e (it used to be one in 3.5), and a missed spell does expend the spell slot while doing nothing for that turn.
Here's another Icelance version written below, after realising ranged touch spells are not easily converted by giving them more accuracy.
Icelance
4th level transmutation spell
Casting time: one action
Range: 120 ft
Components: V,S,M (at least 10 pounds of snow or ice)
Duration: Instanteous (special)
This spell requires a supply of approximately 10 lbs (4.5 kg) of ice, or the remains of an ice storm spell or similar effect to be active within reach of the caster. Icelance shapes the ice particles into a sharp lance in a few seconds and then propels the lance in a straight line toward a target you designate within range. One target within range must make a dexterity saving throw. A succesful save halves their speed for a turn and avoids the damage or stun. On a failed save the target is stunned, and takes 3d6 cold and 2d6 piercing damage. Furthermore stunned creatures must make on a fortitude saving throw at the start of their turn. On a succesful save the stunning ends and they have halved speed untill their next turn.
Thanks Diffan! This is fun.
Gonna work on another tricky one. Spellmantle.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2015 : 20:52:03
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Oof. Its not easy to work all the specifics of this spell. I will show a simplified version below. Perhaps more elegant than older versions (2nd edition spell mantle is a nightmare)!
Spellmantle
rare 6th level abjuration spell
Casting time: one round
Range: Touch
Components: V,S
Duration: discharged, and up to one hour
This spell brings into being an aura, visible only as a momentary shimmering in the air, around the touched target. This magical mantle moves with its target, persisting about 1 foot from all parts of his or her body (even if some become separated from the main body) regardless of wakefulness of slumber, consciousness or damage or even feeblemindedness, and lasts its duration of an hour until the caster either dies or wills the mantle to collapse. It extends to cover all items the subject wears or directly carries, but does not remain with items that are dropped or left behind.
A mantle provides six charges that can be expended as a reaction to gain 'magical cover' against spells or spell-like effects of 4th level or lower. This grants advantage on saving throws versus spells and a succesful save completely negates damage and any effects the incoming spell would have. Failed saves only apply the effect of a normal succesful save. Ranged spell attacks or spells that have a range of touch penetrate the 1 foot barrier preventing the use of a charge. Area spells that are saved against are harmlessly absorbed by a mantle; negating all damage and potentially preventing other targets in the same area from making saves. This also applies to spells that target multiple targets and include the subject of a mantle. Be sure to make a spellmantled creature saving throw first when it is in a area of effect spell or a spell with multiple targets.
Spells without saving throws lower than 4th level are harmlessly absorbed by expending a charge of the spellmantle.
If any number of charges are expended after the subject was the target of an eligable spell, choose one of the following effects, chosen by the subject of the mantle and activated as a bonus action at the start of its turn.
Healing cure 2d8 damage
Regain spellslot The subject regains a spellslot equal to the level of the ability saved against up to a maximum of a 4th level spell slot
If the subject is somehow unable to make a choice the charge is spend to heal the subject.
At higher levels When casting the spell using a spell slot of level 7 or higher, gain one extra charge for each spell slot above 6th level and cure 1d8 ponts of extra damage for each spell slot above 6th level. The mantle can grant magical cover against 5th level spells when cast at 8th level or higher.
Usually rare spell can only be learned through quests or acceptance into high level orders. Spellmantle is a spell that is only thaught by Mystra's inner circle of initiated sorcerers, wizards and clerics. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 16 Jul 2015 21:51:40 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2015 : 21:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Icelance is way too powerful. A 4th level spell that deals 6d6 damage, imposes a significant status effect AND gets a buff to the attack roll is too good. I'd keep the damage at 5d6 (cold and piercing) and stuns but remove the bonus to attack.
How so? Dependence on the caster's attack is a drawback.
Not in 5e where the caster uses their Mental stat for attacks.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Both fireball and lightning bolt in 5e do 8d6 as is (level 3), or 9d6 as level 4, AoE rather than single-target, and ST for full/half rather than attack (wizard's) for full/none.
True, I wasn't all that concerned with the damage. 6d6 damage (cold & piercing) was fine by me. Heck even 8d6 wouldn't break the spell.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
AD&D1/2 version is Level 3, has attack at +4, damage 5d6, save or stun. And range 30'/CL. Static (not *CL) damage was a significant disadvantage, though.
The stunning effect is one of the best there is. It incapacitates the target, all attacks have advantage against the target, immobilizes the target, and makes it hard for them to speak (which messes with spellcasting). In result, it can quite possibly end most encounters with a single target enemy. I'm not OK with 1-shot win spells. Jump the damage to 8d6, save vs. stun and the stun lasts for 1 turn, and slowed for the following turn. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2015 : 22:12:50
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I'm really liking these conversions. As game balance when converting things like spells isn't my strong point, I thank you, and I'm learning a lot by following this discussion, for which I'm again, thankful.
I did want to point out, Bladewind that Aganazzar's Scorcher has a 5e official version in the Elemental Evil Player's Companion, if you're interested.
There's a few other spells in there that do similar effects to what you're going for. Might give you another way to double-check your conversion. Hope I was helpful. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2015 : 18:36:26
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That's helpful, aye. Seems I gave Scorcher a tad too little damage.
On the topic of Icelances stun, it is decribed to last up to a minute in its second editon spell description. Perhaps including a duration of 1 minute solves the potential problem of a permanent stunlock it can give in my versions above. Not sure if instantaneous casting needs to stay in that case i.e. Duration: Instantaneous (1 minute) or Duration: 1 minute. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2015 : 19:54:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
That's helpful, aye. Seems I gave Scorcher a tad too little damage.
On the topic of Icelances stun, it is decribed to last up to a minute in its second editon spell description. Perhaps including a duration of 1 minute solves the potential problem of a permanent stunlock it can give in my versions above. Not sure if instantaneous casting needs to stay in that case i.e. Duration: Instantaneous (1 minute) or Duration: 1 minute.
So long as the target gets a new save every round to remove the stun effect, a duration of 1 minute is possible. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2015 : 15:24:46
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Icelance latest version and Alamanther Return.
Icelance
4th level transmutation spell
Casting time: one action
Range: 120 ft
Components: V,S,M (at least 10 pounds of snow or ice)
Duration: Instantaneous (special)
This spell requires a supply of approximately 10 lbs (4.5 kg) of ice, or the remains of an ice storm spell or similar effect to be active within reach of the caster. Icelance shapes the ice particles into a sharp lance in a few seconds and then propels the lance in a straight line toward a target you designate within range. One target within range must make a dexterity saving throw. A succesful save halves their speed for a turn and avoids the damage or stun. On a failed save the target is stunned for 1 minute, and takes 3d6 cold and 2d6 piercing damage. Furthermore stunned creatures must make on a fortitude saving throw at the start of their turn. On a succesful save the stunning ends and they have halved speed untill their next turn.
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Alamanthers Return
9th level transmutation spell
Casting time: at least one action (see text)
Range: visual sight
Components: V,S,M (a foot wide silver mirror worth 500gp that is consumed in the spell)
Duration: see text
This spell allows the caster to duplicate the effects of any one spell he has ever seen cast - even if he does not know how to cast the spell, lacks the necessary material components, and is ignorant of even the spells name. The duplicated effect cannot be a magical-item discharge, psionic effect, natural spell-like power, or a druidic/clerical spell. The spell's level-dependant damagedice, range, extent, and duration of the duplicate spell match exactly those of a chosen casting that the caster saw. The target of the spell is up to the caster; it need not duplicate that of the observed casting. Any attack rolls and saves are made at the casters proficiency. After alamanthers return is succesfully cast the duplicate spell can be cast as a bonus action if it has a casting time of 1 action, 1 bonus action or reaction. If the casting time is longer the duplicate spell requires the same action as is described in the duplicated spells description (possibly requiring to wait another round to begin casting it).
The name of this spell comes from the mage who devised it, Alamanther of Aglarond, and his habit of using it to hurl nasty spells used on him right back at those who cast them. He was eventually destroyed in one of his frequent battles against the Red Wizards in Thay.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Cutting and pasting 3ed spells into 5ed
