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mastermustard
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Mar 2015 : 20:55:08
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For the past couple of years the number of novels released has bottle-necked. The same thing happened to Eberron; They got down to four book releases per year, before dropping off the map completely.
Will this be the fate of the Forgotten Realms as well?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2015 : 21:28:40
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It certainly seems that the FR novel line isn't prolific at the moment, but that doesn't mean it will end altogether. Of course, it might go down the road of Eberron, but only time will tell.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2015 : 23:43:33
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| The novel line is not going to end. I don't see it recovering to the level of its golden age any time soon though. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2015 : 23:59:19
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Aye. As long as Salvatore lives, and fanboys pour money into Drizzt, there will at least be one Realms novel published with regularity.  |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 00:06:55
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| AFAIK Ed also has to have a novel (or a product)/year, otherwise the Realms will revert to him. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 00:19:14
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| I think there will at least be a handful of Realms books released per year for the near future. Realms books have been coming out since the late 80's, they ain't gonna stop now. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 00:54:02
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| Potentially because of pirating? They might not bother creating books if many people just download them |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 04:31:31
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Potentially because of pirating? They might not bother creating books if many people just download them
Not creating books means not getting money.
Besides, digital piracy is not as big of an issue as some IP holders would have you believe. There are plenty of successful digital marketplaces that show people will spend a reasonable amount for a legal download, or to legally stream something. I'm not saying that digital piracy doesn't cost IP holders money; I'm saying it's not the huge "the sky is falling!" issue it's made out to be. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 05:03:30
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| Oh man, sore subject. I think it's done. Not like done done, but I don't think they'll ever go back to the 10-12 books a year. Which makes me really sad. |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 05:06:47
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| If only we could write fan fiction good enough to be of consideration = P |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 12:16:18
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Based on sales, Salvatore, Greenwood, and Evans are good. They are each going to get at least 1 hardcover a year until their sales drop off. In Salvatore's case, he could take a serious nosedive and still be pulling in money for WOTC.
The problem is that a lot of talented writers are sitting on the sidelines.
1) Shadowbane is a great series with a marketable hero that is getting no press. De Bie wrote an excellent novel in Downshadow, but then his 2 sequels get relegated to ebook status, and the 3rd sequel isn't greenlit yet.
2) The Erevis Cale books were very well received by FR readers, but WOTC can't see eye to eye with Kemp, so Godborn takes forever to get published, and now we have no sequels on the horizon.
3) I don't know where old favorites like Cunningham or Niles have drifted off. They have been published in fantasy since working for FR, so why no FR novels?
4) Newer writers like Smedman and Johnson have come in and done excellent work for WOTC, but I still don't see any more projects lined up for them.
I hope it gets better, because the talent is out there, and a rich setting exists for them to write in, but I don't see it getting any better from here. Maybe if the 5e Campaign Guide does crazy numbers, but WOTC has to release it for that to happen. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 13:33:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
If only we could write fan fiction good enough to be of consideration = P
That would be nice. Unfortunately for every good piece of fan fiction created there are 1000 pieces of poopy created as well. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 14:00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
If only we could write fan fiction good enough to be of consideration = P
That would be nice. Unfortunately for every good piece of fan fiction created there are 1000 pieces of poopy created as well.
Seems to be a similar situation with official novels as well, although everyone's definition of quality is different
I sort of agree but would change the ratio to 1:5 |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 14:32:43
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It would be nice to see WotC mend fences with Kemp. Loved his books. No idea what created the rift there, though I'm sure it's neither one side nor the other that's the mustached villain.
Do I think we'll ever see a resurgence to something like the Golden Age? No. Not in the novels, and not in the brand as a whole. D&D, as a brand, will never see a return to glory like it knew in the past (the 1e-3e era). It will continue, of that I have no doubt, but it will never again see the proliferation of content it once knew (for many reasons, both good and bad, that have been discussed at length about these hallowed halls). |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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IXTenebrae
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 22:03:50
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quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX
It would be nice to see WotC mend fences with Kemp. Loved his books. No idea what created the rift there, though I'm sure it's neither one side nor the other that's the mustached villain.
Do I think we'll ever see a resurgence to something like the Golden Age? No. Not in the novels, and not in the brand as a whole. D&D, as a brand, will never see a return to glory like it knew in the past (the 1e-3e era). It will continue, of that I have no doubt, but it will never again see the proliferation of content it once knew (for many reasons, both good and bad, that have been discussed at length about these hallowed halls).
I did some searching on this one and found a posting by Kemp on his Facebook that it came down to money. He felt it unfair that the realms writers were not getting paid along industry rates. I can't remember how I stumbled upon it. Otherwise I'd post a link to it.
That didn't take long. My Google-fu is strong:
https://www.facebook.com/paulskemp/posts/10152596807420830?stream_ref=10 |
Edited by - IXTenebrae on 23 Mar 2015 22:19:13 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 22:42:37
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Yes, my understanding is that the "second tier" writers were being paid at a rate that wasn't competitive. Ed and Salvatore were on longer terms contracts, but who knows when they end and what will happen then.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 23:16:05
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| That really sucks since I thought Kemp was one of the best Realms writers ever. Methinks I'm probably not the only one who believes this. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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IXTenebrae
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 23:21:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
That really sucks since I thought Kemp was one of the best Realms writers ever. Methinks I'm probably not the only one who believes this.
Nah, you're just imagining things.
Just ignore my edits on the FR wiki and the username (which I actually had before reading any Kemp) playing on the latin "Ex Tenebrae," or from the darkness. And ignore my terrible latin. |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 14:55:45
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I'm also among those who believe we won't see a return to the glory days of 10-12 new FR novels a year. 5 novels a year seems to be the new norm, with two of those by Salvatore. And with the D&D staff at WotC apparently at its lowest number ever, I don't think they could handle 10-12 new FR novels a year in addition to developing and overseeing the overall D&D line even if they wanted to.
This saddens me greatly, as for me the books of Erik Scott de Bie and Paul Kemp were exactly what I wanted from FR novels now that I'm in my thirties. From my POV, de Bie and Kemp wrote R-rated novels that I really enjoyed, unlike the perpetually PG-13 stuff of Salvatore. This shouldn't be viewed as a knock against Salvatore, who is obviously still very popular and profitable for WotC, as evidenced by the fact that they have him writing two novels a year. In fact, he used to be my favorite author. But that was twenty years ago, and now I prefer works that have more adult material and deeper characterization than Salvatore provides. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 19:42:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
I'm also among those who believe we won't see a return to the glory days of 10-12 new FR novels a year. 5 novels a year seems to be the new norm, with two of those by Salvatore. And with the D&D staff at WotC apparently at its lowest number ever, I don't think they could handle 10-12 new FR novels a year in addition to developing and overseeing the overall D&D line even if they wanted to.
This saddens me greatly, as for me the books of Erik Scott de Bie and Paul Kemp were exactly what I wanted from FR novels now that I'm in my thirties. From my POV, de Bie and Kemp wrote R-rated novels that I really enjoyed, unlike the perpetually PG-13 stuff of Salvatore. This shouldn't be viewed as a knock against Salvatore, who is obviously still very popular and profitable for WotC, as evidenced by the fact that they have him writing two novels a year. In fact, he used to be my favorite author. But that was twenty years ago, and now I prefer works that have more adult material and deeper characterization than Salvatore provides.
And that was formerly the great thing about FR. You had a lot of brilliant writers with different styles. Erin Evans and RAS both recently wrote novels centered in Neverwinter. Both wrote great novels, but I got something different out of the city from each author. Same with De Bie and RAS both tackling Luskan, or Evans and Ed giving us different takes on Cormyr.
That applies to races also. RAS does a brilliant job with the drow, but I equally loved what Elaine and Lisa Smedman have done with them. Same goes for different takes on gods, organizations (like the Zhentarim, etc.) Variety is what made FR great. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 20:13:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
[quote]Originally posted by Krafus
Variety is what made FR great.
It is, but at the same time I can't help but think that the Realms novel line could have been soooo much more. How cool would it have been to see novels/trilogies set in Zakhara and Kara-Tur? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 20:25:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
[quote]Originally posted by Krafus
Variety is what made FR great.
It is, but at the same time I can't help but think that the Realms novel line could have been soooo much more. How cool would it have been to see novels/trilogies set in Zakhara and Kara-Tur?
They did originally plan some Kara-Tur novels, but they were scrapped without ever being announced. It's the reason we have some entries in Hall of Heroes that aren't described anywhere else, like Doin Sanehiro. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 23:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
I'm also among those who believe we won't see a return to the glory days of 10-12 new FR novels a year. 5 novels a year seems to be the new norm, with two of those by Salvatore. And with the D&D staff at WotC apparently at its lowest number ever, I don't think they could handle 10-12 new FR novels a year in addition to developing and overseeing the overall D&D line even if they wanted to.
This saddens me greatly, as for me the books of Erik Scott de Bie and Paul Kemp were exactly what I wanted from FR novels now that I'm in my thirties. From my POV, de Bie and Kemp wrote R-rated novels that I really enjoyed, unlike the perpetually PG-13 stuff of Salvatore. This shouldn't be viewed as a knock against Salvatore, who is obviously still very popular and profitable for WotC, as evidenced by the fact that they have him writing two novels a year. In fact, he used to be my favorite author. But that was twenty years ago, and now I prefer works that have more adult material and deeper characterization than Salvatore provides.
And that was formerly the great thing about FR. You had a lot of brilliant writers with different styles. Erin Evans and RAS both recently wrote novels centered in Neverwinter. Both wrote great novels, but I got something different out of the city from each author. Same with De Bie and RAS both tackling Luskan, or Evans and Ed giving us different takes on Cormyr.
That applies to races also. RAS does a brilliant job with the drow, but I equally loved what Elaine and Lisa Smedman have done with them. Same goes for different takes on gods, organizations (like the Zhentarim, etc.) Variety is what made FR great.
I agree. I miss Elaine, Smedman, de Bie, Kemp, Johnson. They had great stories going, and they added flavor. I love Erin's work, and I will continue to read Ed and RAS, but I don't want to just depend on those three to get my novel fix. And if they are the only ones producing novels, that puts a lot of pressure on them. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2015 : 02:24:20
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quote:
Lilianviaten
3) I don't know where old favorites like Cunningham or Niles have drifted off. They have been published in fantasy since working for FR, so why no FR novels?
I think this question answered itself.
If you have what it takes to make it big, be successful, and create worlds ... why lock yourself into toiling small, being trapped in somebody else's crowdy little world, and accepting whatever scraps they can afford to toss to you?
WotC suffers from a lot of bad rep. It doesn't even matter whether they deserve it or not, but they're a panicky publishing peanut in a scary big mean world filled with more riches and terrors than they can hope to grasp. When authors can do better then I don't fault them for doing better - who wants to work more to gain less? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 25 Mar 2015 04:33:47 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2015 : 23:24:03
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| I miss the novels that weren't about RSE's and just focused on small things going on in the Realms. I loved the Lost Library of Cormanthyr and similar such books. I really get tired of the same old books and same old characters to be honest. I want to read more about characters we have heard of by name but know nothing about. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2015 : 19:45:36
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| Am sick of waiting. Better be a Damn floidgate of books once they finalize 5e |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2015 : 20:02:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I really get tired of the same old books and same old characters to be honest. I want to read more about characters we have heard of by name but know nothing about.
I'd carry this further to say I'm tired of the same old settings. Any book set in Cormyr, Sembia, or the Sword Coast automatically has one strike against it for me. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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mastermustard
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2015 : 01:27:35
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Am sick of waiting. Better be a Damn floidgate of books once they finalize 5e
I hope that that's all this is. I don't play tabletop D&D, I just read and collect the novels (Eberron and FR) fairly religiously, and if novel support stays as it is for both settings I may have to find a new hobby. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2015 : 05:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Am sick of waiting. Better be a Damn floidgate of books once they finalize 5e
Finalize 5E? What exactly does that mean? Seems pretty finalized to me. I mean, sure they'll release more rule books. But they'll do that until 6E.
Nah, I'm all but positive that the current release regimen and the stable of writers are what we've got. It's a shame too. The large number of voices the Realms had was what kept me coming back. I honestly don't want to see every FR novel every year be about tieflings, Drizzt, or Elminster. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2015 : 14:00:49
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This is the Hasbro-effect, but not for the reasons many people believe (i.e. evil empire corporation). When they took over WotC, there were several lines of business they knew nothing about, or how to manage: Gaming conventions, novels, and role-playing games.
Gen Con: Acquired by Peter Adkinson as part of the WotC transaction. Hasbro knew nothing about gaming conventions and really had no interest in taking it over.
Novels: Kept due to it being wrapping in the intellectual property of the D&D brand.
RPG: D&D is more valuable as a brand than it is as a tabletop roleplaying game. Remember, at the time, there wasn't the current lawsuits over the IP required for making motion pictures, and other similar shows. Hasbro likely had an eye for this line of business, and rightfully so. The D&D brand is massive--and coming off of the successes of LotR, Hasbro was likely licking their lips as the possibilities.
We are a niche inside of a niche. The numbers don't support what we came to know in the 90s and early 2000s. The industry is shifting, evolving, and won't likely ever be the same. |
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Will FR novel support ever recover?
