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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Mar 2015 : 16:14:26
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This came to me in another scroll, regarding Elminster and the Shadowsil. Thoughts?
I think there are some interesting mindtwists that (can) take place as someone grows very old. Things that make the old very different than the young, and yet... understandably so, and ultimately not so different after all.
Love --real love, not lust and not the flowery declarations for others to see and awwww-- Love burns forever. Even as memories get dusty and the body fails, love is unquenchable. Sometimes so strong that it sustains life past the usual limits.
Even if the one you love turns willingly and hungrily to darkness... the flame might turn cold as you feel abandoned, but it still can't be extinguished. You remember them as they once were, like those who have seen Polaris remember it at its brightest, those who enjoy roller coasters remember their most exhilarating ride on each one... to our dying breath we remember the good things at their best (and the bad things at their worst, but that's not love).
So it doesn't matter if it's been a day or ten thousand years since their last touch... when a love dies, it will hurt as if it happened when you spent all day every day engulfed in each other. That might seem warped to onlookers (and readers), when one of you works for good and the other for evil, and the witnesses don't know that the evil was once good, or at least the wondrously beautiful potential for great enduring good. You're even more alone now, in your love, but still the fire burns and still the memories are bright.
But in that case, where she's rejected his ideals and become a powerful force of darkness... when he knows she won't come back to the light... he might want her dead. When there's no room left for hope, when all efforts have been made and failed. And that might seem evil to younger friends. Because how can love be compatible with wanting someone dead? It's not out of selfishness, but actually selflessness.
On a typical Realmsian's time scale, where life might be expected to last 75 years or so (barring a violent end) and magic can extend it for much longer, we might expect a wizard to always hold out hope, especially when his love is also a wizard.
But Elminster understood the Shadowsil, arguably better than she knew herself. He knew her hunger, and her weaknesses, and also her passions. He knew that she was "in it to win it" and her ambition would never be sated. He might have had the power to change her, against her will, but that would have broken her and at that point he might as well literally kill her because it would figuratively be the same thing.
And there's a difference between dying after a few years of evil, and dying after a few hundred years of evil. At some point, the evil will outweigh the good, in the eyes of history. The Shadowsil had already reached that point -- history has no memory of the good things she did. They were small things. Her evil was turning to big things.
So it's not really that the Shadowsil needed to die. It's that her evil needed to be stopped. The folk who would die at her hands, both directly and moreso indirectly... those folk deserved to live, they deserved a chance to make their own choices, hopefully to serve the common good because the common good was woefully short of servants. The Shadowsil had already had many chances, and consistently made ambitious and hungry choices. She didn't need to die, but the evil needed to be stopped and she had made it clear that wouldn't happen while she lived.
I don't think Elminster necessarily wanted the Shadowsil to die that day, but he knew that it would eventually be necessary. Undoubtedly, a part of him wanted --needed-- it to be someone else to kill her... no man wants to kill a woman he Loves. In some ways (evil outweighing good) he had already waited too long, hoping that someone else would spare him from doing the unthinkable.
Yet... a part of him needed to be the one, because he needed to be there when she fell, in the desperate hope that she still remembered him the way he remembered her... and there was not one other person in all the worlds who would care for her in her final moment as he would. No one else knew her. So... despite his desire to quell evil, he had probably shielded her from previous brushes with death, even though he didn't want to have to end her... he couldn't let anyone else end her. No one else loved her as he did.
For all his might and wisdom, Elminster needed to hear her whisper his name again, in love. He had to be there. He had to be there then, in yet another "most painful moment of his life."
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11719 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2015 : 22:00:59
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| Its an intriguing concept, especially when you point out the fact that people always remember the best of times. They might not see each other for twenty years, but when they meet again, its those old memories that kindle comradery. With someone as long lived as Elminster and the Chosen, I bet there are several instances where they've seen someone swayed to the dark side. I'd best most folk don't necessarily start out as evil at the lower levels (stress on the word most there), but rather are tested and take the easier path bit by bit. Thus, they've probably seen a lot of young adventurers turn dark over the years. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2015 : 23:38:55
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I would think so too. Barring the obvious, like fiendish parentage, deep dark evil isn't often born... it's crafted.
Personal tangent: I might be biased as far as the time and memory thing goes, because I'm that way. I don't remember the specific words that were spoken in conversations, but I remember how I feel with people and in the situations I'm in, and whatever I felt the last time I saw someone tends to stick forever... it doesn't change due to simple passage of time. If I see someone again, my initial reaction is as if no time has passed. Then there's that awkward moment of finding out they've traveled the world since then, married, had kids, lost a parent, or whatever. I recently reconnected with someone I haven't seen since I was 9... as far as I'm concerned we're still buds, even though we haven't spoken in 30+ years and when we knew each other life revolved around GI Joe (him) and Legos (me).
The opposite is also true. I still want to clobber a guy who embarrassed me in front of a girl I liked in 8th grade. Dude, it's been a looooong time, let it go.  But the time really doesn't matter at all to me. Every time his name gets mentioned, or hers, I get steamed all over again. Fortunately, the experience I've gained with people since then (I'm not socially adept even now, and I was really bad at 13) has allowed me to realize that he probably had no more control over the situation than I did. And the bottom line is that despite him putting me in the situation, I'm the one who said something stupid.
So the good relationships stay good indefinitely, and the bad ones get some of the sharp edges sanded down. It works out alright.
I get that it's different for most other folks... long silences seem to lower the priority on that friendship, or somethin. "Life goes on" and pulls us in different directions, etc. But for me it's all about how I felt with that person the last time we had time to sit and chat (or play, as the case may be). I might be in the minority, but the fact that this is how I tick suggests that others feel that way too.
/tangent
It just seems like individuals with really long lifespans, like Elminster, would have an unusual/skewed view of time. They don't have the freedom (or even the desire) to keep up with the daily events of everyone they know. They're busy with stuff too, and there's some not wanting to hear about it when someone dies, and an ever-increasing number of less-immediately-important facts slip behind whatever their highest priorities are. This is especially true for someone (like Elminster) who is zipping around the Realms on a daily basis, but it's probably true even for someone who doesn't move around as much (Larloch) or someone who basically just ponders entropy and the fate of the universe (Ioulaum?). I don't know what Araumycos is thinking about, but I can almost guarantee it doesn't involve how many spores his childhood colony-mates have released and what their birthdays are.
The Elminsters and Larlochs and Srinshees of the world... their relationships must necessarily be based on remembering things in a different way... the good they've done, but not their words or even deeds... the times they've changed lives for the better, together; the satisfaction they felt when discussing whatever seemed important on that long-ago date; etc.
It seems to me --without bragging at all because it makes me sound old-- like they must relate with people kinda like I do. So I wanted to toss it out there, and see if anybody can relate with it, or if there's a better way to picture it. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2015 : 23:49:10
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I think you've described Elminster's feelings towards the Shadowsil perfectly, xaeyruudh. One of the best posts I've read here at the Keep in a long time!
And THESE are the sorts of things that Ed has been exploring for years in his fiction; what it means to grow old, what love really is to individuals who have lived for centuries, everyone's individual path through life's shades of gray (because Ed's characters are never black and white; everyone has various gradations of gray as they move through life and make moral choices).
You can stand back from Ed's Realms writing and take a good long look at it and conclude that Ed is writing about love: what it means to various individuals, what love moves us to do, and how we express our love (of place, of a group, of our family, of individuals, of ideas or causes...).
Bravo, xaeyruudh! 
And well said, too, sleyvas. I'd say the Srinshee has probably seen more adventurers turn dark over the years, with El running her a close second.
love,
THO |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2015 : 23:53:06
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| Ed's writing is certainly evidence of his love and how he'll sacrifice for it. Thank you both! |
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Love, and very old protagonists
