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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 16:42:51
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Do you ever run games that actually change canon events in the Realms?
At the moment I am building a campaign that begins from Ascalhorn just after the fall of Myth Drannor. The refugees from the City of Spells have started entering the city and that is where I want to begin the campaign. I would like for my players to, if possible, prevent the fall of Ascalhorn and go from there. I may require everyone to play elves because of the longer lifespan but not quite sure yet. I really like the idea of changing events in order to create my own version of the Realms.
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 16:58:25
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| I did from 1375 forward. I just run with the "what's in the books is the general accepted truth, but the reality behind those rumors might be different." For example, everyone thinks Blackstaff is dead, and most people accept that as true. But until I run a Campaign that focuses on that fact, nothing is for sure. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 17:00:41
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| If I was running a Realms campaign, there would be a lot of things I would change, starting with the Return of Shade... But most of that would be background stuff; I'm not sure of any canon events I would play through changing. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 17:25:10
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| If I run a game involving those canon events, then sure, I change them according to the PC's actions. I might also go into non-canon detail about things most folk wouldn't know about an event. I feel weird about actually changing canon that my PCs don't have any connection to though. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 17:28:19
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I usually take FR lore as a basis for my campaign, but I don't hesitate to change canon that I don't like or that doesn't fit what my players and I need from a location/event, even drastically.
For example, we did/are doing so with the Silence of Lolth. In my ongoing capaign, one of the plots my players have decided to get involved has both Eilistraee, Vhaeraun (who in my FR are rather neutral towards each other*) and their followers joining forces as a desperate measure during the Silence of Lolth and taking the initiative to change the minds and future of their people.
The premise of that is quite long to write down, but the event would be the culmination of a series of actions on the Dark Dancer's (and Masked Lord's) followers side that started way before the silence of Lolth (actually, something that has been going on for centuries) and that has slowly brought the hope for a new life to many dark elves, leading them away from those hellholes and towards a better existence, on top of allowing the Eilistraee/Vhaeraun's ideas to silently spread, especially among the ''free'' drow, (i.e. the low class). With time, infrastructures** have been created, food/water reserves (scarce and needed by the dwellers of the Underdark) have been gathered (and preserved through magical means) and refuges both on the surface and underground have been built, both for frequent use and in order to prepare what would have been the conclusion of all of this: the final strike, leading the drow to rebel and completely break free from Lolth and her order when the right time would have come (a time that came far earlier than the two siblings expected, due to Lolth's silence).
Sword Dancers and Nightshadows would then infiltrate in the various drow cities, sparking the seed of rebellion by more openly showing to the drow the miserable, inhuman, choice and joy-less condition that Lolth and her reign forced them into. The stagnation and all the chance progress/growth that was lost due to tradition and dogma, their lives being deprived of any value would be made evident to them, especially now that Lolth has gone away, giving basically 0 craps about them and leaving them in a very vulnerable state, while on the other side there is someone who actually cares.
Ofc, each side would do this in their own way. Vhaeraun's followers would choose the route of terror tactics, with attacks and assassinations affecting high ranking members of houses/temple, to show that Lolth's power is far from what she wants the drow to believe.
Eilistraeens would still be fighting with their newfound ''allies'', but they would mainly focus on providing the population with needed cures, food, water in time of crisis, they would make themselves protectors of their people and would more openly offer the chance of getting away from this (and an actual, concrete alternative to embrace, since they have refuges to welcome them, portals to bring them away with safety and a goddess who cares about -and even loves- them). Followers of the Dark Dancer would also bring to the drow the joyful, luminous aspects of life that they have been unjustly denied, they would show them what it means to be a people, united, fighting for a common goal, to forge their own path and place in the world (for example, in my campaign they and the Vhaerunites lent their aid and swords to the drow city of Maerimydra when fire giants and other monster attacked and took it, helping the refugees with healing and food and assisting them to retake the city, while restoring the Twisted Tower as a temple of the Dark Maiden once again. They proved that a united people can achieve much much more than a bunch of paranoid, power-hungry, brainwahsed backstabbers, that the kind of life they wish for is actually possible).
Meanwhile, on the surface Eilistraee, Vhaeraun and their drow would be preparing the ground for an eventual exodus from the Underdark. In particular their efforts would be pointed towards restoring Miyeritar (I chose to not use the events in ''Blackstaff'') and using it as a safe haven for all drow. Of course, especially with elves trying to conquer Myth Drannor back, plopping a drow nation like this would lead to troubles (in fact, the situation is destined to become very tense).
On the 'divine' side of things (which players are experiencing because Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are archfey in my game, and don't refrain from interacting with their people) the plot would involve Eilistraee's relation with Corellon and the Seldarine becoming more strained, cold and even hostile due to her excessive (to them) audacity -so to speak-, especially in this project and collaboration with Vhaeraun, with the two siblings getting closer as a result and Eilistraee rebelling against her father (because, lets face it, the actions of the Seldarine in her and her followers' regards have costed lives, and all of this mess with drow is in great part their fault as well. IMC the Dark Dancer has got tired of offering her hand and even love to the Seldarine, only to receive indifference and maybe even hostility hidden behind kind words, when all she wants is to build a future of life for all elven people).
Lolth's silence has a very different reason behind it, it is quite long and I don't really feel like writing it down, but it is related to something that was done to Araushnee -not by Corellon-, turning her in the demon that she is now, with Shar being heavily involved (she and Netheril also have a big plot going on in the campaign, connected with what happened to elves and drow, and to the most recent events as well, but it totally is not canon) and Eilistraee ''feeling'' that something is changing about her mother, experiencing visions/memories coming back and trying to gain her mother back.
*IMC Eilistraee and Vhaeraun still feel some sibling affection for each other, hampered by how some Vhaerunites' actions damage the efforts of the Dark Maiden towards creating peace and harmony between the drow and the other races. Nonetheless they are able to get over it and join forces when the situation is dire enough to require that. However the most recent full-on 'alliance' started from the mortals rather than from the two deities: each faction has been spying and keeping tracks of the other's progresses, sometimes even with a somewhat silent/indirect cooperation, and now that the opportuinity to radically change the future of their people arose, they decided to openly work together.
**The most relevant among those is a network of portal that extends through the Underdark, connecting areas near various drow cities and settlements with the surface, with the Promenade being its ''hub''. The net is made up of ''Song Portals'' -magic took by Illefarn- crafted with the aid of Eilistraee, which would show up and activate only through a specific melody and emotions in order to avoid hostile intrusion. Furthermore tunnels would be covered with directions that point to the position of the portals, and such directions would be revealed only through Eilistraee's moonfire. Sometimes the goddess gifts lost drow trying to escape aggressors (or simply towards a better life) with temporary manifestations of this magic, in order to lead them towards the nearest portal and to safety -likely near one of her settlements where her people would aid the newcomer-).
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 01 Jan 2015 17:43:54 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 18:10:01
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I've recently reached a "One-at-Most" decision for major RSEs in my campaigns. For me it's mostly ignoring the things that don't fit my campaigns, and things I just don't like, but erasing stuff is pretty much the epitome of changing it right? Absolutely yes, make the Realms your own.
You always have the option, in the next campaign, of building from the previous one or going back to canon and changing a different selection of events/places/whatever. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 18:42:45
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I like to use canon Realmslore as a jumping off point for my own campaigns--especially lore that comes from novels.
This way I can weave the players in and out of events, have a general idea of what the world around them is up to, and so have a backup of sorts if the players don't bite on my adventure hooks (since I can insert a novel event that forces the player's hands and gets them moving).
This last works well for when play slows, as it inevitably does in every campaign, and I need a means to get things doing again. Giving the players the opportunity to cover the King of All Cormyr's retreat to Arabel while a raging dragon and endless hordes of orcs and goblins swarm in on the attack enlivens play, to say the least.
The events in "Beyond the High Road" and "Death of the Dragon" have proven useful in this regard.
Should I get the chance to run a new campaign, I think I'll set play around the events of "Elminster Must Die" and "Bury Elminster Deep". This way I can have the murderous plots swirling around the Council of the Dragon as a backdrop, and introduce a group of players to the Haunted Wing of the Royal Palace. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 19:06:51
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Personally I am devoting most of my waking hours to rewriting RSE's and novel events so that they are able to be run as campaigns for players. The end result being an entire novel neutral campaign setting where the same events happen but for different reasons and you can bolt on whatever novel or RSE events you like without changing the setting.
As for historical canon events, I tend to leave them as they are because they are usually of good quality. However that being said I do like to change historical events in a certain way. The end event stays the same (volcano erupts, god dies, etc), but the interpretation of that event can be changed (who or what caused the volcano to erupt, how or why or even who killed the god, etc). If you want an example then check out the Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions fan mag in my signature. The Old Empires stuff is a good example of how I change canon events and yet keep them the same.
If it were me I would allow them to play in Ascalhorn and even have them take part in events to solve the fall of Ascalhorn, however have it destroyed anyway as events conspire against them to destroy it anyway, kind of like Terry Pratchett's interpretation of time travel in the Night Watch book.
So they know demons destroy Ascalhorn. What they might not realise is that the demons were summoned in order to combat devils that were released into Ascalhorn almost 20 years earlier. Have the pcs kill off the wizards that were summoning the demons and the fey'ri (who taught the wizards to summon demons) summon more demons anyway. Have the players kill the devils and demons and fey'ri and perhaps some other random wizard causes a magical plague that changes everyone into creatures resembling demons or have the eddy of magical chaos in the grandfather tree take place anyway and fill Ascalhorn with demons after the players have gone, or when the players kill all the baddies they can take part in raising a mythal over ascalhorn that goes horribly wrong and unleashes Grintharke and his horde upon an unsuspecting citadel.
So that no matter what the players do it still gets destroyed by demons or things that look like demons. It might make it seem like a hollow victory but the players get to save the day, get heralded as heroes, get their reward, and then the place gets destroyed so they shouldn't be too sad. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 22:41:18
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In my case, its more along the lines of, "what haven't I changed?"
The canon only applies to those events I don't want to muck with (in other worse, stuff happening 'elsewhere' that won't impact the players). But even then, I have some inkling of what other major events are transpiring... or NOT transpiring, in the case of a lot of the novel plots. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2015 : 00:19:15
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| Does anyone know who the leader of Ascalhorn was during 714 DR? |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2015 : 00:31:06
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| I haven't read any of the posts but I can say yes, I change canon events if it suits me. I've recently begun to realize that not following canon gives me more freedom in the games I run. Granted, I'll use canon when I want to, but I no longer wish to be constrained by it. I do tend to use canon history (as in centuries past) but current events are all mine these days. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2015 : 04:27:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If I was running a Realms campaign, there would be a lot of things I would change, starting with the Return of Shade... But most of that would be background stuff; I'm not sure of any canon events I would play through changing.
As fantastic as the flying mountain-cities of Netheril were in Faerun's past and present, it always seemed a little too fantastic for my tastes. You get the sense, that has been confirmed elsewhere here at Candlekeep (I don't remember where exactly), that Ed's original vision of Netheril and Anauroch differed greatly with what has been published. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2015 : 09:34:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If I was running a Realms campaign, there would be a lot of things I would change, starting with the Return of Shade... But most of that would be background stuff; I'm not sure of any canon events I would play through changing.
As fantastic as the flying mountain-cities of Netheril were in Faerun's past and present, it always seemed a little too fantastic for my tastes. You get the sense, that has been confirmed elsewhere here at Candlekeep (I don't remember where exactly), that Ed's original vision of Netheril and Anauroch differed greatly with what has been published.
Ed's Netheril is very different from that which was published, officially. You need only search for the topic here at Candlekeep [as it's been discussed many a time] for more elaboration on this subject. |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2015 : 03:10:10
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I have changed everything from imperceptible tweaks to complete rewrites in my games ever since I had one fall flat on its face because the lore and the personalities and the events I allowed to run over my players. Ever since that experience I realized that the Realms should be color to the players actions and everything should make sense to them. Since I am the only interface the players have to interacting with the world of the Forgotten Realms it is incumbent on me to understand everything well enough to explain it fully to my players. Things that do not make sense to me I research, change, or eliminate to avoid interfering with my players' sense of fun exploring the Realms.
I have Dragonspear as jointly garrisoned by the Lords' Alliance after two military campaigns to subjugate the hellportal threat but that same garrison showing the weaknesses and fractures of the greater powers with Baldurian and Waterdhavian jingoism threatening to break the alliance. An extensive ruin that is the crux of a future game is a remnant of a sophont civilization revealing that a creator god (Ao) had a prior go at populating Toril with beings and gods that failed and died out in deicidal war when he wasn't paying attention. I have banished "common" from my games, insist that the elves were the second most unnatural force of destruction after the phaerimm, have a historical nascent hobgoblin civilization that would have eclipsed the human barbarians as the apex humanoids after the time of giants if it were not for the dwarves and the elves, and have pruned the illogical expeditions of the Zhents. And that is all for just one game running a little over one year.
My players want to leave their mark on the world. Everything in the Realms has to move aside or be eliminated for them to do so. Anything less is akin to raiding the prop room and playing on the sets of your favorite TV show or movie while the cameras are off - fun once, but an empty experience thereafter.
If your players have their hearts set on saving Ascalhorn then let them have the opportunity. Get yourself a working knowledge of the forces allegedly at play and figure out the dynamic involved in the fall of that storied city. After all, it is not a house of cards that fell in a single rush but multiple failings that caused the collapse. Why were the demons and devils there in the first place? What happened to the clergy and other spellcasters who should have been able to notice and check extraplanar beings? What of the veteran soldiers and constabulary that should have seen evidence of what was to come? What was occupying the political leaders that they could not create a suitable defense or planned evacuation with the vow to return and reclaim their home? What needs to be destroyed for the city to be abandoned as a lost place of evil physically, socially, and conceptually? And how are your players going to have a chance to recognize any of the above? |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2015 : 10:36:46
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Well, if i ever again run a FR campaign is it clear that:
1) No spellplague (with the exception i might run a campaign were the players in an old temple ruin have dire divine warnings about a potential dreadful future unless they do something to prevent it)
2) No timejump
3) The attempt fails to civilize the Orcs (unless the players do a lot to make it succeed)
4) No weird stuff with the dwarves like the Duergar suddenly regaining their freedom
5) No destruction of Sembia or at least if i decide to use those plot lines to give the players a chance for preventing it
6) Have not decided if I ever again run a FR campaign if I will let the Shades into FR since i was deadtired of them the last time i many years ago ran a FR campaigns
7) I want if possible to avoid massive reductions in the amount of deities. |
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Do you ever change canon events?
