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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 07:58:22
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So i want to know how racist are the Elfs, if so who is completly racist agianst N'Tel'Quess, who is completly tolerant of them?
what degree do most elfes have of racism and tolerance in diffrent places?
what do they think of Half - Elfs and even a half elf half orc?
what infulental opinions do they have acording to races?
i interject that i LOVE elfs more then any race in fantasy.
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Knowledge is Power |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6647 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 08:18:06
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The elves of Siluvanede were notoriously racist. The Vyshaan before them considered themselves superior to all others, including other elves. The Eldreth Veluuthra practice racism in the current Realms. The first few chapters of Ed's "Elminster in Myth Drannor" give you an idea of the elven mindset toward non-elves. Yep, elves can be very racist.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 08:24:58
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| Murderously so. Do you have moral pangs when squashing a bug? That is the attitude of the elven elitist. I will take Llossarwyn, the frostlich, for a thousand. He spent hundreds of years of his mortal life searching for, or attempting to create, a plague to eradicate all of human-kind, alst the while, running around playing the healer. Not a nice guy (friggin psychopath.) |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
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Edited by - Fellfire on 11 Oct 2014 09:29:45 |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 10:43:44
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I think its important to make a distinction between elves who choose to live apart from other races, dwelling in hidden/secluded places like Evermeet & Evereska, and those who live together with other races in places like Aglarond, Silverymoon, Baldur's Gate, Waterdeep etc.
From the population stats for the various races living in the Realms, it seems that the great majority of elves (in Faerun, not including Evermeet) live together with other races these days.
This would suggest that most elves have learned to be tolerant of other races; those who can't or won't do so, choose to live apart.
One interesting point for me, at the end of the Sundering, is this (contains spoilers from The Herald, so highlight the area below to reveal text):
Will the elven survivors of the sacking of Myth Drannor be more or less likely to hate humans? After all, human mercenaries from various parts of Faerun, but primarily from Sembia, were responsible for the disaster (admittedly, acting on the orders of their Shade masters). On the one hand, I would imagine that the surviving elves would bitterly hate humans after this; on the other hand, at least some (including the Coronal) presumably realise that they cannot survive & defend themselves without help from non-elven sources, such as the men of the Dales, Cormyr, the Chosen etc. So they will have to accept cooperation with humans & others, whether they like it or not.
Thoughts? |
Edited by - BenN on 11 Oct 2014 10:45:53 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 12:20:02
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"Elves ARE monsters!" - The annotated Elminster, in the 'notes' section, when Ed was discussing a conversation he had with TSR regarding 'not enough monsters' in his book.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 16:46:11
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Although the above shows how racist elves can be, I think the majority of Forgotten Realms elves are merely prideful and aloof rather than out-and-out racist.
They are convinced of the superiority of their species and do look down on others to an extent but as long as the n'tel'quess don't do anything to offend their morals, sensibilities or cultural expectations, elves are remarkably tolerant for a race with such a high opinion of themselves.
This could be because they take an almost parental stance - seeing non-elves as stumbling children who need guidance.
It could be that they see their inability to out-breed shorter lived races motivating them to try and work with them, with the aim of imparting a more elven outlook on life.
Or it could just be the natural chaos of the elven mindset - curiosity about seeing what will happen if the n'tel'quess are left to their own devices.
Whatever the motivations, over the last few millennia (which is only about half a dozen elven generations), the People have made great strides in their relations with others - especially considering how many disappointing actions non-elves have performed. Though there are still more than a few bad eggs and the rest haven't completely given up their sense of superiority, the elves, as a species, couldn't really be called racist. |
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Edited by - hashimashadoo on 11 Oct 2014 16:49:53 |
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eeorey
Seeker
Bulgaria
96 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 17:39:21
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It's a lot easier for humans not to be racist because they are all over the place and will eventually meet with all sorts of people. Not so with elves.
And besides where as some groups of elves are described as highly bigoted others are welcoming and in the case of the moon elves eager to experience more of the world and meet new and different people. Exceptions exist of course but compared to the bigotry of some elves the outgoing nature of others gets overlooked. And you have to remember that to a lot of elves humans seem terrifying, warlike and vicious, and Dwarfs dour and confrontational. If you live your entire life away from others all you know about them would be what you hear and passes down from history, and lets face is it the goodly races get along better now than they did before. So it makes a lot of sense that the more isolationist of them would be the most bigoted, with the wood elves of the High Forrest being an exception.
And besides whenever there is a new danger humans, elves, dwarves and all the other so called goodly races seem to forget that they can't stand each other. races seem to forget that they can't stand each other. At least most of the time.
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Edited by - eeorey on 11 Oct 2014 17:40:05 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 18:04:11
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There is an important point to keep in mind when discussing racism. Being a racist does not mean that you want to harm or destroy another race. It simply means that you believe that you are inherently superior to another race.
As Hashimashadoo points out culturally the Elves overwhelmingly see themselves as superior to other races, and this in turn leads them to be arrogant and prideful. For a real world equivalent, think of how Western Governments view themselves as superior to non-Western Governments and deal with them. This is the "parental stance" that Hashimashadoo talks about, which leads them (thanks to pride and arrogance) to look down their noses at non-Elves who they view as "stumbling children who need guidance."
Now, when you start out in this position, it becomes very easy to move toward harder and harsher forms of racism. This ultimately leads to things like the Eldreth Veluuthra. Most Elves fall somewhere between the two extremes.
The more liberal and open minded Elves, as BenN points out, live in places like Silverymoon and Waterdeep--side by side with humans. In these places half-elves are the most common, and they would receive a great deal of acceptance. However, should that half-elf seek to move to an Elven dominated settlement such as Evereska... yeah, well... that really is not going to happen. He would not be welcomed or accepted, the racism there would be extremely strong against him.
When we are talking about an orc and elf hybrid, things are infinitely worse. Orcs are viewed as monsters. Period. Most Elves do not view humans as monsters. An elf willingly having sex with an orc and breeding with him... that is the equivalent of bestiality in our culture. Actually giving birth to its offspring is even worse--it is sacrilegious. Elves and Orcs hate each other. Their gods hate each other. They kill each other on site.
A orc-elf hybrid would be seen as an abomination, deserving of death. Period. The vast majority of Elves would be horrified at the thought of his existence, and to openly walk into an all Elven community is practically asking to be lynched to death. The only thing that might slow them down is the fact that most of them would likely have to vomit first at the thought of his parents engaging in sex to actually give birth to him.
The hatred of him would be somewhere on par with their hatred of Drow, and his mother would likely forever be an outcast as well for having given birth to him. His extended family would also be shamed and tarnished by the fact that he carries their blood in his veins, and would likely do everything in their power to kill him before he breeds. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 21:36:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
There is an important point to keep in mind when discussing racism. Being a racist does not mean that you want to harm or destroy another race. It simply means that you believe that you are inherently superior to another race.
As Hashimashadoo points out culturally the Elves overwhelmingly see themselves as superior to other races, and this in turn leads them to be arrogant and prideful. For a real world equivalent, think of how Western Governments view themselves as superior to non-Western Governments and deal with them. This is the "parental stance" that Hashimashadoo talks about, which leads them (thanks to pride and arrogance) to look down their noses at non-Elves who they view as "stumbling children who need guidance."
Now, when you start out in this position, it becomes very easy to move toward harder and harsher forms of racism. This ultimately leads to things like the Eldreth Veluuthra. Most Elves fall somewhere between the two extremes.
The more liberal and open minded Elves, as BenN points out, live in places like Silverymoon and Waterdeep--side by side with humans. In these places half-elves are the most common, and they would receive a great deal of acceptance. However, should that half-elf seek to move to an Elven dominated settlement such as Evereska... yeah, well... that really is not going to happen. He would not be welcomed or accepted, the racism there would be extremely strong against him.
When we are talking about an orc and elf hybrid, things are infinitely worse. Orcs are viewed as monsters. Period. Most Elves do not view humans as monsters. An elf willingly having sex with an orc and breeding with him... that is the equivalent of bestiality in our culture. Actually giving birth to its offspring is even worse--it is sacrilegious. Elves and Orcs hate each other. Their gods hate each other. They kill each other on site.
A orc-elf hybrid would be seen as an abomination, deserving of death. Period. The vast majority of Elves would be horrified at the thought of his existence, and to openly walk into an all Elven community is practically asking to be lynched to death. The only thing that might slow them down is the fact that most of them would likely have to vomit first at the thought of his parents engaging in sex to actually give birth to him.
The hatred of him would be somewhere on par with their hatred of Drow, and his mother would likely forever be an outcast as well for having given birth to him. His extended family would also be shamed and tarnished by the fact that he carries their blood in his veins, and would likely do everything in their power to kill him before he breeds.
he cant breed though, his like a Liger in that respect.
btw ur 'real life' example is more fantasy then the Forgoteen Realms. if you noticed anything western goverments have been bending over to barbaric governments.
secondly your assuming that most people would be able to distinguish him from a half orc or from a half elf with an extremly muscular human parent, or with a half elf that breed with a half orc. its so rare most people wont even know who he is so much.
i think the ones in the cities are not racist that much, they do deal with half orcs. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 22:04:16
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| well whats most elfs view on half orcs? |
Knowledge is Power |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 02:28:19
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Abominations.
So would most humans, come to think of it. Elves and humans can find the other attractive, but orcs? Not so much. Most half-orcs are the byproducts of rape. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 04:30:46
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Abominations.
So would most humans, come to think of it. Elves and humans can find the other attractive, but orcs? Not so much. Most half-orcs are the byproducts of rape.
And even for those that are not the products of rape, people are still going to think of orcs when they look at half-orcs -- and orcs have earned a very dark reputation in the Realms. Dark enough that most people would likely regard a half-orc as being near-orc, and not half-human. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 06:29:46
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Abominations.
I think that's being overly harsh, and it's also painting the mindsets of most of the elven subraces with the same brush.
At their most superior, I would agree that some elves, like the gold elves for example, view half-orcs as abominations. But the more inclined elven subraces who often welcome half- this-or-that offspring into their ranks, like the wood-elves, could view some half-orcs as the rather unfortunate victims of the violent conflicts between humans/elves and orcs. They'll more likely look with disdain on the cause, than the result of these poor creatures. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 06:35:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Abominations.
I think that's being overly harsh, and it's also painting the mindsets of most of the elven subraces with the same brush.
At their most superior, I would agree that some elves, like the gold elves for example, view half-orcs as abominations. But the more inclined elven subraces who often welcome half- this-or-that offspring into their ranks, like the wood-elves, could view some half-orcs as the rather unfortunate victims of the violent conflicts between humans/elves and orcs. They'll more likely look with disdain on the cause, than the result of these poor creatures.
To be fair, most elves probably do view them with pity. They may be abominations, but it's hardly their fault. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 15:11:55
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Vyshaan before them considered themselves superior to all others, including other elves. The Eldreth Veluuthra practice racism in the current Realms. The first few chapters of Ed's "Elminster in Myth Drannor" give you an idea of the elven mindset toward non-elves.
Or at least it's more obvious in such cases.
"They may consider humans and the like no better than snakes and ground-slugs, but they look upon the rest of us elven Cormanthans as no better than cattle."(c)
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
This could be because they take an almost parental stance - seeing non-elves as stumbling children who need guidance.
Yup. While humans (those who aren't too busy squeeing at a mere sight of an elf, anyway) tend to see them as either savages who recently climbed off a tree, but didn't walk away from it yet (wild elves), or as cute, but hopelessly retarded and very spoiled children - after all, they chase butterflies, think that everyone outside their company got cooties and believe that the Multiverse turns around them - very few manage to grow out of this.
Which, of course, also helps to maintain status quo, such as it is.
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
So would most humans, come to think of it. Elves and humans can find the other attractive, but orcs? Not so much. Most half-orcs are the byproducts of rape.
Ed himself wrote something about this more than once. This, for example.
I want only to add a meta-observation:
Did you often see people asking - "But how common among the humans is the view that elves are automatically attractive, rather than too alien (those sharp features) or too wiry?", and if not, why? Me neither. The idea seems to come from anorexia fetish (popular in America) combined with the provincial notion that "ALL humans MUST see everything my way, unless there's something wrong with them!" (ditto).
Tastes differ, you know. There's always someone like Queen Bertha.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 15 Oct 2014 20:37:39 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 15:44:18
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| Not all elves look like Mialee. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 22:35:02
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Elves are - more than humans - highly inclined towards individualism, free-thinking, challenging authority and tradition, and spontaneity. They tend to be smart, often very smart, and (sadly) fall easily into arrogance, condescension, and elitism because the self-confidence and self-assuredness their intelligence (and their *knowing* they are intelligent) leads them to believe that non-elves are slow and stupid and clumsy in comparison.
In fact, elves (as a race) seem to express all the best and worst features of human behaviour. But humans tend to naturally comply to social norms, few humans sit on the fringes of human behaviour, very few (social outcasts) exhibit intense extremes. Its as if elves have a flatter bell-curve for measuring all their psychological capacities, fewer of them conform to the mainstream, more of them are distributed toward the limits.
Meaning that many elves wouldnt perceive themselves as racist, but would certainly snub and inconvenience non-elves (in an unthinking automatic manner) in subtle ways that humans would immediately identify as unambiguous racism. And many elves would embrace non-elves (at least those who have proven their merits) in wholehearted ways that would make human tolerance seem like childishly inadequate attempts to repair inequality.
Either way, individual elves will likely be (in human terms) somewhat fanatical in their methods of expression, expressing themselves in ways which will be clearly understood by all.
Acceptance by an individual elf of an individual orc does not mean acceptance by all elves or acceptance of all orcs. Each interaction and each instance must be judged by its own merits.
Remember that Drizzt the drow required half a trilogy to gain acceptance by a handful of allies. And a whole slew of novels to establish himself in the Realms. And, even so, anti-drow racism is still a frequent theme he must overcome. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 23:28:53
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Not all elves look like Mialee.
Lord of Bones, the mentioning of that Elven goblin should be a violation of the code of conduct/ terms of use......... don't you think????
her figure was fine, but her head was goblinoid and fugly....
ummm yeah now back to your topic at hand... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe
Ireland
212 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2014 : 00:26:16
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This thread makes me sad.
I'm not a big fan of the depiction of Elves as the White People of the realms, because I'm an underdog type and I like Fae things thematically. I think a lot of people misunderstand what racism actually means too, it's nearly impossible to compare fantasy racism to real life racism because real life racism isn't just about "believing your race is better" it's about centuries of institutionalised oppression resulting in a system that favours one race more than others. Real life races tend to be much more poorly defined - in D&D you pretty much have separate species(though Tolkien's Elves were closer to a "race" in the human context).
I also don't like the idea of Elves being all thin and wiry, just tending towards it. Or you know, being all white.
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2014 : 00:51:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave
This thread makes me sad.
I'm not a big fan of the depiction of Elves as the White People of the realms, because I'm an underdog type and I like Fae things thematically. I think a lot of people misunderstand what racism actually means too, it's nearly impossible to compare fantasy racism to real life racism because real life racism isn't just about "believing your race is better" it's about centuries of institutionalised oppression resulting in a system that favours one race more than others. Real life races tend to be much more poorly defined - in D&D you pretty much have separate species(though Tolkien's Elves were closer to a "race" in the human context).
I also don't like the idea of Elves being all thin and wiry, just tending towards it. Or you know, being all white.
Yes, racism is very different in the real world than in the Realms. Compared to the average human the average Elf really is more intelligent. It is not a matter of debate but a statistical fact -- I suppose we should call it speciesism or something similar rather than racism.
When we are talking about racism in the real world, we are talking about human vs human conflict. But Elves and Humans are actually a different species (even though in D&D terms they are called races).
The issues surrounding Elven bigotry arise from ethnocentrism. Trying to compare it to racism in the United States or South Africa (past or present) does not work at all, because the systems in place to oppress non-Elves are not in place. (Largely because there is not a huge mixing of Elves and Humans, and where it does happen Elves are usually decidedly in the minority.)
That being said, I do not think anyone can really deny that Elves have a tendency toward bigotry when it comes to other races. Even if it is just manifest through condescension, as outlined by Hashimashadoo. The fact that Elves *DO* think this way and it is socially acceptable in their culture, leads to groups such as the Eldreth Veluuthra. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2014 : 07:34:01
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| To be fair, there are literal deities of human racial supremacy (Zarus, Wastri), so the elves aren't exactly alone in their racism. |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2014 : 12:47:06
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
To be fair, there are literal deities of human racial supremacy (Zarus, Wastri), so the elves aren't exactly alone in their racism.
Correct. Places such as Tethyr and Sembia have a strong bias against Elves due to longstanding conflicts with them. This has led to discrimination for any Elves venturing there.
Perhaps the group most similar to the Elves in their specific form of ethnocentric discrimination would be the Mulan. Particularly the Mulan of Thay and Mulhorand. They view themselves and their culture as innately superior to all others. They have a strong tendency to look at non-Mulan as barbarians and savages.
Yet, despite this, Thay could be one of the most welcoming places in Faerun. Is a Red Wizard ever going to turn away business because you are a Drow, Orc, or Goblin? No. If you can pay, you can stay. If you cannot pay, why the hell are you still here? Thay even goes so far as to incorporate monstrous races into their military -- gnolls and orcs in particular -- which implies that they are integrated into their society to some degree.
On the other hand, if the same gnoll who has loyally served in a Thayan army attempts to pledge his loyalty to Cormyr, he would be filled with arrows and swords before he got the first sentence out of his mouth. So people in the Realms--all people--have prejudices against various races and other ethnic groups within those races. This is pretty much universal. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2014 : 15:03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
To be fair, there are literal deities of human racial supremacy (Zarus, Wastri), so the elves aren't exactly alone in their racism.
Correct. Places such as Tethyr and Sembia have a strong bias against Elves due to longstanding conflicts with them. This has led to discrimination for any Elves venturing there.
Perhaps the group most similar to the Elves in their specific form of ethnocentric discrimination would be the Mulan. Particularly the Mulan of Thay and Mulhorand. They view themselves and their culture as innately superior to all others. They have a strong tendency to look at non-Mulan as barbarians and savages.
Yet, despite this, Thay could be one of the most welcoming places in Faerun. Is a Red Wizard ever going to turn away business because you are a Drow, Orc, or Goblin? No. If you can pay, you can stay. If you cannot pay, why the hell are you still here? Thay even goes so far as to incorporate monstrous races into their military -- gnolls and orcs in particular -- which implies that they are integrated into their society to some degree.
On the other hand, if the same gnoll who has loyally served in a Thayan army attempts to pledge his loyalty to Cormyr, he would be filled with arrows and swords before he got the first sentence out of his mouth. So people in the Realms--all people--have prejudices against various races and other ethnic groups within those races. This is pretty much universal.
Aldrick, I just have to add, this is the perfect example, and one I've tried in my campaigns to portray. To many of the people in Thay, they understand their rulers to be ruthless, but they also see themselves as being an enlightened people. The same for Mulhorand. Neither society sees slavery as an evil, for more often than not in Thay the slaves are enemies of the state in one form or another.... and in Mulhorand they believe they're treating the slaves to a better life (which may actually be true). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 21:03:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
On the other hand, if the same gnoll who has loyally served in a Thayan army attempts to pledge his loyalty to Cormyr, he would be filled with arrows and swords before he got the first sentence out of his mouth.
But... Cormyreans are heirs of the Forest Kuingdom's elves. Received the crown from an elf's hands, no?
They are known to go way overboard with mind-reading (all the time), lord over folk outside their claimed territory (Stonelands), overrun neighbours "for their own good" (even tried to occupy Shadowdale), kill peaceful elemental-kin (east of Marsember) and cause magical catastrophes (Tilverton). All fits? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 16:31:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave
This thread makes me sad.
I'm not a big fan of the depiction of Elves as the White People of the realms, because I'm an underdog type and I like Fae things thematically. I think a lot of people misunderstand what racism actually means too, it's nearly impossible to compare fantasy racism to real life racism because real life racism isn't just about "believing your race is better" it's about centuries of institutionalised oppression resulting in a system that favours one race more than others. Real life races tend to be much more poorly defined - in D&D you pretty much have separate species(though Tolkien's Elves were closer to a "race" in the human context).
I also don't like the idea of Elves being all thin and wiry, just tending towards it. Or you know, being all white.
Yes, racism is very different in the real world than in the Realms. Compared to the average human the average Elf really is more intelligent. It is not a matter of debate but a statistical fact -- I suppose we should call it speciesism or something similar rather than racism.
When we are talking about racism in the real world, we are talking about human vs human conflict. But Elves and Humans are actually a different species (even though in D&D terms they are called races).
The issues surrounding Elven bigotry arise from ethnocentrism. Trying to compare it to racism in the United States or South Africa (past or present) does not work at all, because the systems in place to oppress non-Elves are not in place. (Largely because there is not a huge mixing of Elves and Humans, and where it does happen Elves are usually decidedly in the minority.)
That being said, I do not think anyone can really deny that Elves have a tendency toward bigotry when it comes to other races. Even if it is just manifest through condescension, as outlined by Hashimashadoo. The fact that Elves *DO* think this way and it is socially acceptable in their culture, leads to groups such as the Eldreth Veluuthra.
It's nice to know that racism is only in the United States and South Africa.
Death to all white people! |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 17:58:05
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quote:
Originally posted by froglegg
It's nice to know that racism is only in the United States and South Africa.
Death to all white people!
Congratulations on ripping everything I said out of context.
I was directly responding to this claim:
quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave
I'm not a big fan of the depiction of Elves as the White People of the realms....
To which I responded:
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Trying to compare it to racism in the United States or South Africa (past or present) does not work at all, because the systems in place to oppress non-Elves are not in place.
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 18:09:44
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| a guess u can ask in general, how racist are the people of Faerun? |
Knowledge is Power |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 18:32:06
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| Depends on the city and race in question, the city's deities, etc. Zhentil Keep under Bane was a meritocracy, under Cyric non-humans were discriminated against; I recall an orc captain grousing that the Banites recognized his contributions and gave him medals of honor, but the Cyricists treated him like crap. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 18:36:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
a guess u can ask in general, how racist are the people of Faerun?
There's a lot of Faerūn, and a lot of races to apply that question to.
Elves, for example, really aren't welcome in Sembia, but the Dalesfolk like them.
And drow are pretty much unwelcome anywhere -- except Skullport, obviously. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 18:58:09
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well lets go deeper in the matter. Racism rests on the idea that a persons character is determined, not influenced, by his biological origins, it is a variant of determinism. A variant that identifies certain qualities with a class of biological organisms.
so where in the realms is the idea of determinism popular?
i think from the few places all races are welcome is Amn, since in one of the source books it says that an Illithid in good clothing will be treated better then a Dwarf in shady clothes. Also Amnians only care about money anyways. (though the Boulders Gate game goes agianst that with a Drow charcter.)
i think all the big merchant cities are like that. |
Knowledge is Power |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 19:04:09
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BG2 has Vicky about to be burned at the stake in broad daylight.
The Amnian love for money has to be treated within reason. You can be the richest balor in the world, that doesn't mean Jim the Farmer wants to do business with you. |
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How racist are the Elfs
Topic Locked
