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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Aug 2014 : 21:31:25
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My pirate friends tell me that the 5th edition Player's Handbook and secret rough drafts of the first SIX Tyranny of the Dragon Queen Encounters have been leaked.
This leads me to think that Wizbro have some SERIOUS security problems. It makes me worry for them as a company.
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When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2014 : 21:49:35
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| Is this a facetious post? Because the PHB was released for sale at game stores that host Encounters games last week. |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2014 : 22:00:53
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| If the 5e PHB is out there for pirates I hope what WotC takes from this is "pirates will happen no matter what". What I fear will happen is another "PDFs are being made of our books?! That's it, no more PDFs, that'll stop them!" thought process. Hopefully dndclassics is doings well enough as a website that they realize PDFs are still worth doing. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2014 : 23:02:13
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I think WotC generates more revenue in the longterm from DDI subscriptions. While DDI material is not absolutely necessary to play D&D (and is itself subject to piracy), it offers a dynamic, changing, richer, and deeper game setting than is provided in the core rulebooks.
Yes, many pirates will pirate no matter what, and a comparatively small publisher like WotC will never be rid of pirates forever, the costs (in terms of revenue loss) of piracy and investments in anti-piracy are just absorbed. But - contrary to their big talk and posturing - pirates are a diminishing segment and they are always gradually losing ground. Wizbro is shifting content towards DRM subscription and eBook markets, they have apparently learned from their kneejerk overreactions of the past and (whatever they've been doing, exactly) they have been increasingly active and successful at quiet takedown culling behind the scenes. Or perhaps Wizbro hasn't deployed legal people; the legal machinery behind DRM enforcement has developed enough momentum (and evil corporate champions) to become largely self-sustaining.
The more you (or your "pirate friends") steal from WotC, the fewer products they will release over time, the fewer authors and freelancers they will hire to give you entertainment, and the more aggressively they will invest in physical, digital, and legal barriers to combat piracy in their future products. Have fun playing D&D from behind a computer screen or crappy coverless printout.
A shameful commentary on human nature that so many small-minded, selfish, and criminal people are willing to murder what they love by grabbing their chunks of entitlement. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2014 : 01:18:17
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| Actually, if you talk to the piracy activists they'll tell you that copyright is stifling innovation (well in some cases it really is) and that making everything DRM free will cause prices to drop AND generate more revenue for authors while getting rid of the corporate publishers and distributors that keep prices high. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2014 : 01:39:50
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Piracy vs Sharing is a fascinating modern issue.
When I was a kid, we would photocopy character sheets and parts of books for personal use in gaming. I'd also create "mix tapes" of radio-sampled music. Were those illegal activities? Were they breaking copyright? What if someone buys a dvd movie and shows the movie to friends?
If you borrow a book, music cd, or video dvd from a public library, it's legal - but from friends it's illegal?
Corporate lawyers are twisting the spirit of copyright, and even the methods that media is bought and purchased. Soon, corporations will control content such that actual ownership is not possible.
Personally, I do not advocate actual theft, but it's important to consider what theft really is - and isn't - before re-labeling sharing as theft. Is it theft to sample a product before you buy? Is it theft to make copies to share for personal use in a gaming session? Where should the line be drawn, and by whom?
By corporations who are only interested in maximum revenue?
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2014 : 01:45:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Actually, if you talk to the piracy activists they'll tell you that copyright is stifling innovation (well in some cases it really is) and that making everything DRM free will cause prices to drop AND generate more revenue for authors while getting rid of the corporate publishers and distributors that keep prices high.
And if they said that, they wouldn't be saying anything that made sense, was praiseworthy, or that constituted anything other than a trumped up excuse to steal from others and give the concept of activism a very, very bad name.
If they don't like the current system, they need to come up with a better business model.
Thievery is not a business model.
People who steal from our collective hobby are assholes. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2014 : 02:21:01
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It's increasingly important to think about what corporations are actually pushing for, and how they're abusing copyright laws. Such activity does hurt creativity, even ownership rights.
http://radar.oreilly.com/2012/01/on-pirates-and-piracy.html
Think. Don't just blithely repeat corporate propaganda.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2014 : 04:32:43
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I don't think this is really the best place to debate copyright issues.
The PHB is already out, as noted, and the Hoard of the Dragon Queen officially drops in a couple of days -- and I'd not be surprised to find that there are presales at Gen-Con. So if someone has pirated this material, they really didn't put a lot of effort into it.
Further, I've not heard anything recently about WotC putting a lot of effort into battling online piracy of their material. The last time I heard that discussed was when 4E came out and WotC had the infamous knee-jerk reaction of pulling all legal pdfs, regardless of D&D edition, from being sold.
Also, with WotC already distributing the basic rules of 5E for free, that's really going to put a damper on efforts to pirate the printed book. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Aug 2014 04:34:08 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2014 : 12:23:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The more you (or your "pirate friends")
Please don't assume that I'm a pirate just because I have friends who are. I'm not offended or anything (because that would be hypocritical) but I have a reputation that I'd like to keep.
I posted this to the highlight the concerns that I had, not so much about the new PHB (though the fact that they got it so quickly is also a concern) but rather about the material that nobody outside WotC should have access to.
DnD, in many ways, is a lot like a good soap opera in my opinion. If the storylines reach the public before they're released, it has a negative impact on the product as a whole. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2014 : 21:50:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
they have been increasingly active and successful at quiet takedown culling behind the scenes. Or perhaps Wizbro hasn't deployed legal people; the legal machinery behind DRM enforcement has developed enough momentum (and evil corporate champions) to become largely self-sustaining.
Nice fairy tale to tell themselves and pat themselves on their backs (or to justify themselves to the companies who are paying them to protect their stuff), but piracy is as strong as ever. From torrents, to streaming to these payed for pirating services
Entities with enough money to not only buy WotC but even the whole of Hasbro just with the spare change the find in the couches in their lobbies have tried to battle them and are no more succesfull than Don Quixote
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Actually, if you talk to the piracy activists they'll tell you that copyright is stifling innovation
There is certainly something wrong with the duration of copyright regularly being extended to "age of Mickey Mouse +XX", but even if we grant them that, they are not interested in copying such old stuff. They are only after the new releases. And these definately deserve copyright (even if one can argue that 20 years would suffice instead of life of creator +70 years)
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
When I was a kid, we would photocopy character sheets and parts of books for personal use in gaming. I'd also create "mix tapes" of radio-sampled music. Were those illegal activities? Were they breaking copyright?
Yes. Didn't you notice the agressive "home taping is killing music" campaigns?
One of the reasons why no one takes them seriously in their rants against Napster, Kazaa, Usenext, etc. is that they did the very same campaign with the very same arguments already against home-taping.
They already screamed about the imminent destruction of the industrie back then. And since it did not happen back then, was in fact growing, no one believed these very same claims today.
Did you know that they fought tooth and nails to have VCRs being outlawed as piracy? And that they took this battle through all instances until finally losing before the surpreme court?
If things had been only a little bit different back then, something everybody is taking for granted for decades would be labeled as a hideous pirating device only available at black markets
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
and the Hoard of the Dragon Queen officially drops in a couple of days
Actually it also was already out on the 8th in all WPN stores selling the PHB back then |
Edited by - Mirtek on 17 Aug 2014 21:55:15 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2014 : 23:29:34
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| All I can say is thank god for the PDF's that I do have of things that I have in print. I own monster mythology from 2nd edition. I also own the PDF of monster mythology from 2nd edition. The ability to open that PDF instead of having to grab the book has made it much easier to research things down the years. I really wish they'd give free PDF's when you buy the books. With the ability to "tag" the person's name and transaction info on each page of the PDF, it'd sure make the person think twice about sharing their personal copy. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 08:13:43
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quote:
I really wish they'd give free PDF's when you buy the books. With the ability to "tag" the person's name and transaction info on each page of the PDF, it'd sure make the person think twice about sharing their personal copy.
It wouldn't make sure of anything. There are supposed to be entire communities out there on the interwebs dedicated to removing that kind of information from PDFs but even said friends have no idea where those communities are located (could be on the dark net?) or where they get their source material.
I should also note that I'm hesitant to continue this discussion further along these particular lines since discussions about file sharing are in breach of this site's code of conduct. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 14:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
When I was a kid, we would photocopy character sheets and parts of books for personal use in gaming. I'd also create "mix tapes" of radio-sampled music. Were those illegal activities? Were they breaking copyright?
Depends on the laws in your country |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 14:49:52
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
When I was a kid, we would photocopy character sheets and parts of books for personal use in gaming. I'd also create "mix tapes" of radio-sampled music. Were those illegal activities? Were they breaking copyright?
Depends on the laws in your country
Actually, I intended for those to be rhetorical questions, to generate commentary and thought - because they were fairly common activities of kids in my generation. But Wooly put the kaibosh on the thread a bit earlier, so I'll just add this:
In the USA, the "fair use" clause of copyright law is somewhat vague, although there are considerations involved regarding how much of the product you've copied, for what purpose, and whether or not it's sold (or re-sold) that help in determining cases.
You're absolutely right that it's slightly different in other countries. In the UK, I believe they go by "fair dealing" which is more limited.
I could talk at length about this purposes and differences of darknets (vs. "The Dark Net") and layers of the Deep Web. But I doubt Wooly or Sage really want this thread to continue much further.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 18 Aug 2014 15:22:51 |
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Despite WotC's 'best' efforts...
