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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 19:14:31
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So, the 5e playerhandbook has come out early.
Things that have been learned. The thing has several once dead gods coming back, including things that are way outside of Forgotten realms. Making me thinking planescape is almost a shoo in .
God Types shown: Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Eberron, Nonhuman Deities, Celtic, Greek, Egyptian, Norse. Includes evil deities. Bhaal and Myrkul
Great Wheel makes a return with some modifications axis planes.
Elemental Planes and Elemental Chaos are part of the Inner Planes.
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 21:49:34
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When a prime wizard casts conjure elemental, he usually doesn't think about where the elemental comes from. The creature appears and that's that. Spells make for a lot more planar traveling than most folks suspect, though. Take that conjure elemental spell: It (obviously) has to reach the Elemental Planes in order to work. Cut off that connection and the spell can't function. Now, primes tend not to notice any of this because the Prime Material Plane's connected to all the other planes, either through the Ethereal or Astral. The same just ain't true for the Inner and Outer Planes. The Inner Planes are cut off from the Astral Plane (and thus the Outer Planes) while the Outer Planes are cut off from the Ethereal (and thus the Inner Planes).
So what's this mean? It means that on the Inner Planes a spellcaster or a priest can't normally use things like the astral spell or raise dead. And on the Outer Planes, the same person would have troubles with conjure elemental and aerial servant, since these call upon things found on the Inner Planes. In some cases, a spell reaches through either the Ethereal or the Astral Plane, depending on who or what the caster is after. For example, contact higher plane passes through the Astral Plane to reach the powers on the Outer Planes and through the Ethereal Plane to reach the elemental lords, but a spell slinger can't reach Arborea from the Ethereal and he can't call the plane of Air from the Astral - get it?
Magic and the Planes |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 23:19:50
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| makes sense. Similar to how spelljammer couldn't summon creatures either while in the phlogiston. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 00:30:30
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Methinks the Astral is just a bit too easily accessible, and consequently, too overly abused and travelled. I personally prefer a Great Wheel where it is harder to access distant/opposed Outer Planes than the Astral, but also where the Astral can't be used as a convenient "shortcut" across vast supernatural distances.
Planescape's response was to suggest the Astral is populated by a surprising number of threats, which makes sense, but unfortunately isn't applicable in practice since various Outer Planes are comparably far more hostile. Ah well, an imperfect universe modelled within another imperfect universe, nothing anyone (even Primus and his modrons) can do about it. |
[/Ayrik] |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6647 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 00:41:13
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Aren't the githyanki still in the Astral? I can imagine there would be constant githyanki slaver parties roaming the astral, which would be fairly threatening. Especially if they patronised popular entrance/exit points to other planes. Sounds like a fairly threatening situation to me.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 03:04:23
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Githyanki party-crashers are always bad news, true. But people can bribe, negotiate, befriend, or flee from them - sometimes, at least. I think that menacing fiends, or (far worse!) celestial zealots recruiting "worthy volunteers" for their latest righteous jihad (against fiends, most often) are far worse encounters than mere giths. The only thing most PCs have to bargain with in such encounters is their eternal souls. Worse, the Outer Planes are home to Powers (far more than are found on the Astral), even the most benign of which will deal with intruders in a rapid and decisive fashion.
Githyanki hunting parties, marauders, slavers ... vs ... local godling, along with his legions of petitioners, proxies, and supernatural agents. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 07 Aug 2014 03:05:05 |
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 15:34:50
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| I wonder why Hawkmoon is listed among the novels that influenced 5th ed rather than Corum. I thought Games Workshop pretty much raided and pillaged the Hawkmoon series to create 40K. Does the presence of Eberron deities mean we'll get some more Eberron books? |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 16:01:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Does the presence of Eberron deities mean we'll get some more Eberron books?
I think they're just drawing from the list of ones they came up with... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 00:21:58
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Here is a list of the universe design
http://imgur.com/a/W5BQl
Where's the Far Realm  |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 00:40:27
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Outside your current cellphone carriers service area.
They didn't give it much of a write up, just the typical not part of this reality oddness sort of thing that chluthu or such would come from , with no known portals besides mention of firestorm peak that got destoryed. |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2014 : 00:49:00
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It isn't perfect, but I can work with this, and would happily write for it given the opportunity.
I really dig the incorporation of the 2e Planescape symbols for the various outer planes, that's a surprise to see, and it made me smile. While I can appreciate the 3.x simplification of the Astral/Outer and Ethereal/Inner split as regarding transitive planes, 5e going back to that system is again a surprise and something that's kinda cool to see.
As possibly the internet's biggest fan of yugoloths, it makes me so so so so so incredibly happy to see Gehenna, the Waste, and Carceri back rather than the 4e Blood Rift.
I wouldn't have included as many 4e elements (quite possibly none of them to be honest), I would have handled 5e tieflings in a -much- more inclusive way rather than inexplicably making them exclusively devil-blooded and thereby excluding 2e/3e tieflings, and I still don't like the name Shadowfell rather than the Plane of Shadow... but I think that I can live with it.
I'm also rather pleasantly amused to see the 5e Feywild and Shadowfell as Material plane reflections between the Material plane and the Positive and Negative energy planes, which is exactly how Pathfinder's cosmology has handled its own fey realm of the First World and its own Shadow Plane. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe
Ireland
212 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2014 : 01:32:20
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| ^ well I kind of feel like they're rolling back too much to the 2E way of doing things. It's nice they have kept some 4E stuff as some of the 4E lore was very good. |
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Jaynz
Acolyte
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2014 : 01:52:03
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"Shadowfell" can be legally protected, "Plane of Shadow" cannot since it's too generic. I think that's going to be the primary reason for a lot of 5E's naming conventions. (As it was for 4th).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2014 : 04:43:30
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| And "Shadowfell" sounds cooler. Not saying I approve of the name change, but it does sound cooler. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jaynz
Acolyte
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2014 : 04:50:26
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It's probably just my sense of humor, but "Shadowfell" gives me a rather odd Babylon 5 mental image...
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2014 : 05:27:03
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I actually prefer "Shadowfell" to clumsy-sounding "Demiplane of Shadow". Shadowfell invokes, in my mind, an actual place (a place where shadows roam, of course). Demiplane of Shadow just seems too mathematical, the sort of stuffy terminology one would encounter in an anatomical dissertation of the planes, not unlike latin taxonomy being applied to subspecies of dragons.
That being said, I mislike the details and developments of the Shadowfell as "an coterminous transitive plane" ... so it intersects and overlaps the Primes wherever shadows are found? While I think ye olde Demiplane of Shadow was located exactly and perfectly where it should be, shadows are (as a mixture of light and darkness) a fundamental building block of reality. The transitive overlapping thing works well with the Feywild, I can even see it being applicable to linking various Outer Planar realms to Primes where associated pantheons can draw strong faith energy (places like Olympus, Asgard, the River Styx, etc). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2014 : 11:04:44
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I really, really, really like what I'm seeing here. It's very close to how I did things in my Realms, and I'm pretty confident that I'm going to adopt things pretty much wholesale.
It's likely the only major change I will make is to how the material plane works. In my cosmology, where they have the material plane listed, is where new prime worlds were created. They are Crystal Spheres floating in the Astral Sea. Most of the battles that are fought in the planes are over who controls and influences the prime worlds, and the souls of those who live on them. As the inhabitants of one plane or another gains influence or control over a prime world, it moves closer to that outer plane.
This allowed me to blend together Spelljammer and Planescape. Travel between the planes was more difficult magically speaking, and most people travel between the prime worlds using Spelljammers.
That's likely the only change I'll end up having to make. Otherwise, it looks like I'll be using all the 5E Cosmology stuff. That's awesome. Very happy and pleased. I'm also glad that they kept the Shadowfell, Feywild, and Elemental Chaos, as I really enjoyed those. It also looks like they're handling the Elemental Chaos the same way I did.
Very pleased. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2014 : 21:05:20
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| Bummer that I don't see any para elemental planes or quasi elemental. I was gearing up to bring a whole ton of 2e lore back into my game. Guess that makes me only 97% or so happy with it! |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2014 : 00:09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Bummer that I don't see any para elemental planes or quasi elemental. I was gearing up to bring a whole ton of 2e lore back into my game. Guess that makes me only 97% or so happy with it!
I wouldn't discount their existence yet. It's likely that they still exist, and what is listed are just the major planes / regions of the cosmology. Just as an example, I'm pretty sure Ravenloft exists in the cosmology, but the Demiplane of Dread isn't listed. I would, however, assume the Demiplane of Dread is somehow part of / connected to the Shadowfell. Likewise, I'd assume the para / quasi elemental planes are somehow part of / connected to the Elemental Chaos. |
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Some Leaks From Reddit on Lore & Universe
