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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jun 2014 : 22:57:03
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Since all the Gods are coming back(some already have, e.g. Mystra, Helm) which ones are you particularly looking forward to?
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 00:53:48
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| Leira |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 01:14:22
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Before 5E the deities I absolutely wanted to see back in the Realms were Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, Mask, Mystra, Sehanine, Shaundakul and Helm (mostly because his ''death'' was flat out parodical).
Now that three of them have been publicly restored, I'm hoping for the two drow siblings to get some spotlight and for some info about what happened to Sehanine (beyoned 'she was Selune all along') and Shaundakul. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 06:35:54
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Lathander, Shaundakul, Nobanion, Lurue, Mystra, Eilistraee, and Vhaeraun.
I'm actually disappointed in the idea of Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul coming back. I never liked Bhaal, I prefer my idea (which has some admittedly inconclusive evidence supporting it) that Bane 2.0 is actually Xvim in disguise, and I love the idea of Myrkul as an intelligent, trouble-making artifact. I dislike him as a deity, but in the Crown of Horns there is much potential for fun. |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 07:52:42
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| The only deity I really want to see return is Eilistraee. |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 10:00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm actually disappointed in the idea of Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul coming back. I never liked Bhaal, I prefer my idea (which has some admittedly inconclusive evidence supporting it) that Bane 2.0 is actually Xvim in disguise, and I love the idea of Myrkul as an intelligent, trouble-making artifact. I dislike him as a deity, but in the Crown of Horns there is much potential for fun.
Could you explain the theory about Bane & Son?, also I want to mainly see Selvetarm, Laduguer, Deep Duerra, Vhaeraun and Eilistraee but would not mind Myrkul or Bhaal. |
Edited by - mhamza on 22 Jun 2014 10:41:39 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 16:45:35
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quote:
Originally posted by mhamza
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm actually disappointed in the idea of Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul coming back. I never liked Bhaal, I prefer my idea (which has some admittedly inconclusive evidence supporting it) that Bane 2.0 is actually Xvim in disguise, and I love the idea of Myrkul as an intelligent, trouble-making artifact. I dislike him as a deity, but in the Crown of Horns there is much potential for fun.
Could you explain the theory about Bane & Son?, also I want to mainly see Selvetarm, Laduguer, Deep Duerra, Vhaeraun and Eilistraee but would not mind Myrkul or Bhaal.
There's a lot of things about Bane's return that just don't quite make sense...
Xvim's followers -- the folks that Xvim already had and wouldn't want to lose -- were the ones that had the vision of Xvim bursting apart and Bane returning. And this vision was accompanied by green flames -- something that Xvim favored.
Bane 1.0 used red and black as his colors. Bane 2.0 uses black and green -- the same colors as Xvim. Bane 2.0 uses an entirely different holy symbol from Bane 1.0, which is quite suggestive by itself. And some of the favored critters Bane 2.0 has used since his return were not used by Bane 1.0 -- but they were used by Xvim.
Now, there are different possible interpretations. One is that Bane 1.0 did indeed return, mostly subsuming his son -- but not entirely. It could be an amalgam of sorts, with bits of Xvim remaining in the mix. It could be a hostile takeover, with the out-of-place things being parts of Xvim that Bane has not been able to overcome (The Sage has noted this as an interpretation of Bane's new holy symbol). It's also possible that Bane 2.0 has entirely subsumed Xvim, but retained some things just to keep Xvim's folks happy.
Now me, I look at this and I think that the Ultimate Tyrant isn't all that if he can't beat his own kid, and that the Ultimate Tyrant does not show strength by catering to others...
So the explanation I favor is that the reason we see so much of Xvim in Bane 2.0 is because Xvim is Bane 2.0. It's not at all uncommon in the Realms for one deity to pick up the name of a fallen deity, and thus grab that other deity's worship -- Shar did it with Ibrandul, and Lolth did it with Moander, for example. Xvim was a newcomer on the deific scene, but if he pretends to be Daddy, he gets Daddy's worshippers and Daddy's prestige -- a huge boon for a lesser power.
Xvim's champion gathered as much of Bane's old power and essence as he could. The followers of Xvim were the only ones who saw Bane's return, with a vision that had Xvim's signature on it. Bane 2.0 has a lot of things in common with Xvim that Bane 1.0 did not, and Xvim stood to gain a lot from pretending to be Bane. Hence, my conclusion: Bane is still dead, and Xvim is pretending to have replaced him. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Jun 2014 16:46:26 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 16:55:54
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quote:
Originally posted by mhamza
Since all the Gods are coming back(some already have, e.g. Mystra, Helm) which ones are you particularly looking forward to?
Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul being back "together" again.
Elistraee.
I'm hoping the new Mystra is more like Mystryl and less like Mystra.
I'm also wondering if, by "all the gods" they will bring back Tyche, along with Tymora.....
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 17:57:30
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Ah, finally managed to locate the bit I was looking for, from a discussion on the Scouring of Shadowdale "supermodule".
Again, hardly conclusive, but here's a place where a designer didn't say my theory was wrong. He didn't say it was right, but he didn't say I was barking up the wrong tree.
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One other thing that struck me as interesting: the Black Beast of Bane. It says that, like his son Xvim, the reborn Bane likes manifestations involving evil critters and carnivores. Looking at Faiths & Avatars, that seems to be more of Xvim thing, and not something that Bane 1.0 did all that much. Maybe I'm reading into it because I want to, but that seems to me to be another indication that there is still a lot of Xvim in Bane 2.0. This, of course, supports my two favorite (and opposing) theories of Bane's return -- the "What the hey, I'm back!" theory, or the "Hey, look at me, I'm really Bane, not Xvim!" theory. But I'm prolly just reading too much into it. 
Glad you're having fun speculating. ;-)
--Eric
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 18:42:55
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| Ah, thanks then, sounds like a cool theory and if true it would be interesting to see how Torm deals with the offspring of his sworn enemy merging with/pretending to be his sworn enemy |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 19:01:53
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| I will admit, Wooly's idea has me intrigued. I'd still like to see the evil trio back, but I'd also like to see Bane kick some imposter across the planes, not exactly killing him, but making him go home and rethink his portfolio. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2014 : 20:40:40
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| Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, Mask, Lathander, and Deneir |
Sweet water and light laughter |
Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 25 Jun 2014 20:41:14 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2014 : 22:38:26
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Another Bane-fact of some import:
By the conclusion of the Avatar Crisis, Bane was slain, Cyric was newly ascended and given Bane's (and Bhaal's, and Myrkul's) divine portfolios. Cyric then reigned over the priesthoods of "The Dead Three" for about a decade, and (until his whole Cyrinishad debacle, insanity, and divine demotion) he aggressively converted his priesthoods to worship him alone. In fact, one of the special powers granted to Cyric's priests was the ability to magically convert Bane/Bhaal/Myrkul worshippers into their faith. By about 1368DR, only the most die-hard old-school orthodox-traditionalist fanatics would've still worshipped Bane, and even these were unable to fully reject Cyric's religion if they wanted to receive their spells and granted powers.
There can't have been all that many true Banites left by 1368DR, regardless whether they accepted Xvim or not. Especially since one of Bane's great strongholds of faith in the Realms was Zhentil Keep, which was said to be entirely free of "religious impurities and throwbacks" by the time Cyric had asserted his full power. Admittedly, Cyric basically reduced the Keep to rubble and ruins within a year from that point, but still ... |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2014 : 04:31:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm actually disappointed in the idea of Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul coming back. I never liked Bhaal, I prefer my idea (which has some admittedly inconclusive evidence supporting it) that Bane 2.0 is actually Xvim in disguise, and I love the idea of Myrkul as an intelligent, trouble-making artifact. I dislike him as a deity, but in the Crown of Horns there is much potential for fun.
Agree, Agree, and Agree |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2014 : 12:18:37
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| Now I'm not entirely sure if this is a spoiler or not but I heard rumors of Bhaal coming back in Murder in Baldur's Gate which was released though I haven't played it. Would someone care to explain, I don't mind spoilers. |
Edited by - mhamza on 26 Jun 2014 19:53:54 |
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Regcod
Acolyte
Italy
28 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2014 : 15:13:11
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, Mask, Lathander, and Deneir
I agree with you (Eilistraee above all), but at this point, if it's true that also Myrkul and Bhaal will come back (is confirmed?), I would see also Moander. |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2014 : 15:17:53
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| Bhaal is confirmed. Myrkul has strongly been hinted at. Don't know about Moander. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2014 : 18:05:10
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| What happens to Tymora and Beshaba, they both used to be Tyche so would that mean they'll merge back into one? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2014 : 18:59:20
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quote:
Originally posted by mhamza
What happens to Tymora and Beshaba, they both used to be Tyche so would that mean they'll merge back into one?
I'm hoping not... I'm thinking they're trying to get back to the OGB pantheon, and not simply resurrect every dead deity. Otherwise, we'd have a lot more deities that never saw more than a line or two suddenly popping up, like Murdane and Valigan Thirdborn. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2014 : 01:33:54
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I suspect that not every single god will come back. No inside line on this but just a hunch.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2014 : 10:26:44
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| All of them, including Ibrandul, Moander, and the Masked Lady (which has returned from a collaboration between E and V in my homebrew). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2014 : 10:52:12
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| What about Selvetarm, would he come back evil or in his before Zanassu state? |
Edited by - mhamza on 04 Jul 2014 11:02:22 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2014 : 10:56:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by mhamza
What happens to Tymora and Beshaba, they both used to be Tyche so would that mean they'll merge back into one?
I'm hoping not... I'm thinking they're trying to get back to the OGB pantheon, and not simply resurrect every dead deity. Otherwise, we'd have a lot more deities that never saw more than a line or two suddenly popping up, like Murdane and Valigan Thirdborn.
Speaking on that, other than GHotR, has there ever been another mention of Valigan Thirdborn. I admit to him intriguing me... and wondering who the first and secondborn were. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2014 : 15:04:08
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| I think Valigan Thirdborn was also mentioned in one or two other books; I'm thinking Lost Empires of Faerūn for some reason, and I'm pretty sure his first mention was in Faiths & Pantheons. I'll have to check that later, though -- I need to go cut the grass before the heat and humidity of Baator settle in. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2014 : 16:02:56
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SPOILERS!
Well Ibrandul has a Chosen in Dreams of the Red Wizards: Dead in Thay so he's as much on his way back into the Realms as, say, Vhaerun. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2014 : 17:58:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
SPOILERS!
Well Ibrandul has a Chosen in Dreams of the Red Wizards: Dead in Thay so he's as much on his way back into the Realms as, say, Vhaerun.
I am honestly disappointed by that. Ibrandul was introduced and killed in the same paragraph. I would prefer he stay dead, simply because he never had any screen time. Bringing him back feels gratuitous. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2014 : 23:21:39
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| Well, IMO, the more gods the better. I like players to have as many choices as possible for character concepts. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 03:45:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Well, IMO, the more gods the better. I like players to have as many choices as possible for character concepts.
I like lots of choices, too... But Ibrandul? He was introduced in a monster description -- and in pretty much the same sentence, it said Shar killed him.
Yes, he is technically part of Realmslore. But during the entire print run of the Realms, he's never been an active deity. Bane? Yes, he's been there since the beginning. Leira, ditto. Ibrandul? He's never been more than background material. The demon-faced butler at the Stalwart Adventurer's Club in Suzail has had more screentime in the published Realms than Ibrandul has.
And that's why, if he comes back, it's going to feel entirely gratuitous to me. "Oh, look, here's another deity that no one has ever done anything with! Better toss him into the mix, too!" |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 14:12:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am honestly disappointed by that. Ibrandul was introduced and killed in the same paragraph. I would prefer he stay dead, simply because he never had any screen time. Bringing him back feels gratuitous.
He had a bit more screen time than a single paragraph. First appearance was in the Ruins of Undermountain boxed set and Eric Boyd did a write-up of him in Polyhedron.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 14:19:39
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I am looking forward to the return of Helm and the Masked Lady but as for bringing back Every Last God! well I dont see how that is a good idea.
It seems kind of unnecessary and cheapens their deaths (whether they were heroic or otherwise) to bring them back just a few years after they were killed. It also will remove a lot of tension and suspense from future products because even if someone gets killed viola they are back again in a few years. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 14:54:05
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am honestly disappointed by that. Ibrandul was introduced and killed in the same paragraph. I would prefer he stay dead, simply because he never had any screen time. Bringing him back feels gratuitous.
He had a bit more screen time than a single paragraph. First appearance was in the Ruins of Undermountain boxed set and Eric Boyd did a write-up of him in Polyhedron.
-- George Krashos
What I mean is that as soon as he was introduced, he was dead. Unlike some of the other deities, like Leira, at no time that we've known about him was he actually alive. He has no screen time as a living deity. |
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Faerunian 
