| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Feb 2014 : 11:03:02
|
They lack souls correct? Or do they? What is the process for undead when they "die"?
If they worship a god with an undead portfolio. Do they bypass the fugue plane and end up in their undead gods realm? Are they "dead" undead?For example lets say my cleric "killed" an Wight Orcus worshipper with a mace of disruption. Is that the end of it ? Or does it osomehow get reformed in Orcus' domain? What's their status?
Also what's their reward? If they are tormented beings on the prime material plane are they somehow alleviated of this when in their undead god's domain. Do they have an endless supply of negative energy to stave off there unending hunger?
When an undead is "put to rest" does this mean that their soul is intact somewhere? Does the creation of some undead actually create two separate beings - the original and then the undead offfshoot?
|
|
|
_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2014 : 12:38:21
|
It depends on the undead. A lich for example still has a soul, a ghoul or skeleton or something like this doesn't.
But then there is the Eminence of Araunt which claims otherwise.
|
 |
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2014 : 14:09:54
|
Living beings consist of three parts: the body, the soul and the animus (instinct). Undead consist of only two of these parts, their corpse/body and their animus. An intelligent undead's animus usually remember parts of the memories of its soul, but their animus has a distinct influence on their personality (making most into evil beings). Wights, spectres and wraiths belong to this group. A lich or vampire retains its soul, binding it through dark arts to their bodies. Their minds are still heavily influenced by their tainted animus though.
A good clue to what happens to D&D undead in the afterlife is the 'bring back to life' series of spells. Raise Dead and Reincarnate will not work on a person who has been turned undead (and their corpse still animated and not destroyed). Resurrection and True Rez are needed to make the undead alive again (but again, it needs to be destroyed first). So powerful forces can pierce the places the souls of undead go to, but simple raise spells cannot find or communicate with the souls as long as its body shuffles around on the primes.
As souls are hard to destroy, so I think during 'soulless' undeath the soul is locked somewhere in the ethereal plane of its patrons afterlife. It's not really there and somehow 'lost' and hard to locate. A deity or its plane can not easily make use of it as it does with its normal petitioners. You could also just say the soul begins its travel to the afterlife at the moment of death, and those that have their bodies animated afterwards are unwilling to return to the prime because of it.
In my interpretation, if a wight is destroyed its animus begins to fade into nothingness and its "locked ethereal" soul will be reincorporated into the aftelife it was meant to go. Officially, a destroyed wight cleric will not release a soul to Orcus's afterlife, as it's orignal soul already is in (or is on its way to) its patrons afterlife.
Orcus may have found a way to both claim souls and recieve divine worship energy. By making his victems into soulless undead clerics he has both a claim on (or at least knowledge of its location of) its soul in the fugue and a way to monitor the primes through its senses. This way he can direct demonic invasions into both the fugue and Faerun with more chance of success.
|
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 19:42:48
|
Bladewind has a pretty good answer but I will share somethings on how I handle things with my homebrew.
1. Intelligent undead still have their souls locked in their bodies...they have just been corrupted by magic.
2. Corruption does not automatically equate to evil. Meaning, if I think the story would be better served (or if a player somehow managed to convince me to play an undead PC) I would allow for non-evil undead.
3. I make the assumption that the soul is slowly devoured over hundreds (well thousands actually) of years to power the necromantic magic. Eventually the creature dies. This point does not apply to certain undead (namely vamps and liches but others as well).
4. Given point 3, most undead will become thoroughly evil over time just because the state of undeath is so horrific.
5. The creature can worship and gain spells from a god based on its alignment (though some deities would refuse an undead priest). Of course, most of them would be evil gods and, over time, a 'good' undead would most likely become evil and need to change gods.
6. The disposition of the soul depends largely on the claiming deity and would be handled on a case-by-case basis. For instance, I could see Lathander allowing a soul in that had become undead before being slain (he would not turn his back on a follower methinks and would want to renew the soul). Tyr, on the other hand, might judge that the undead should have destroyed itself and that it wasn't pure to begin with if it succumbed to the corruption almost immediately.
7. Perhaps the Wall of the Faithless is full of such souls that no deity would claim because the soul became nihilistic and/or lost all faith in the gods? Just a query for consideration there.
|
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 12 Feb 2014 19:43:37 |
|
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
|
|
jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 23:05:35
|
| Cool,thanks for your responses, but what do intelligent undead get out of worship, whats the reward? |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2014 : 00:40:02
|
Take liches worshipping Velsharoon as a for instance: They may see the favor of the great necromancer for their worship. This may come in the form of divine insight into necromantic spells that the lich is working on. It may come in the form of divine visions of dangers. It may come in the revealing of ancient knowledge/lore on old cultures. For individuals performing more than just lip service, it could involve actual aid.
Essentially, its the same as everyone else who worships, minus the part where they go to their god after death (except those who still have souls such as liches, death knights, etc.... may actually go on to become powerful servants of their deity, etc...) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
What do undead get out of worship?
