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Kitira Gildragon
Learned Scribe
USA
191 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 16:47:21
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The question about Lord Chess had me diggin in my old books, and I had alot of questions.
Leira was godess of deception, the lady of the mists. Is it possible she's still alive?
Mask and Leira seem like the ideal allies. While mask was Godsbane, could he have fed Cyric false prayers of Leira's faithful? Or, even if she died, could a bit of her essence have found its way to the Prime Material Plane before Cyric absorbed it all? Perhaps she merely faked her own dispersion?
Also, since Cyric holds her portfolio, would her 'faithful' actually be Faithless since she's dead? And if she was reborn, would their souls be released to her if they were found faithless?
I'm sort of floundering in the dark here, I suppose, but any thoughts/comments/opinions would be appreciated. - Kitira Gildragon
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-Space for rent- |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 19:05:50
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| We believe that we mentioned this once before. However the answer was unsatisfactory... We are currently looking into the status of the Goddess of Lies.... Perhaps one of the Masters of Realms Lore knows more. As for ourselves... we know Cyric supposedly holds the portfolio for the time being... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 00:11:37
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| I think Leira is dead. If you have read Prince of Lies, Cyric admitted to the evil deed in front of the Circle of Greater Powers. Also, Lord Ao was summoned by the gods and even he said that Cyric did it. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 14:46:41
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| Cyric the one killed that weak god and claimed her dominion. |
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Arteris
Learned Scribe
121 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 16:24:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyric
Cyric the one killed that weak god and claimed her dominion.
Typical Cyricst answer.. But I do agree she is dead |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 16:50:25
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| Here's an adventure hook: A group of non-evil illusionist try to ressurect their former deity, aided by Mystra and Azuth as a means of limiting Cyric's power and consolidating Mystra's control over magic (Leira served Azuth, who serves Mystra). Cyric would then have a demigod competing for a portion of his worshippers. |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 16:52:56
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| And Oghma, an enemy of Leira, would aid Cyric in his efforts to prevent this. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 17:45:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Kitira Gildragon
Also, since Cyric holds her portfolio, would her 'faithful' actually be Faithless since she's dead? And if she was reborn, would their souls be released to her if they were found faithless?
Yes, I believe so. If I'm not mistaken, even clerics and paladins who hold to an ideal, rather than a god, become Faithless. Though with Kelemvor now in charge, things ought to be different. Sage probably knows more on this. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 17:59:25
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Oghma and Cyric side by side, i doubt that wil ever happen.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 07:00:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
quote:
Originally posted by Kitira Gildragon
Also, since Cyric holds her portfolio, would her 'faithful' actually be Faithless since she's dead? And if she was reborn, would their souls be released to her if they were found faithless?
Yes, I believe so. If I'm not mistaken, even clerics and paladins who hold to an ideal, rather than a god, become Faithless. Though with Kelemvor now in charge, things ought to be different. Sage probably knows more on this.
Indeed they would. It's written I believe in one of the FR deity tomes (I can't remember which one, nor can I check at the moment), that the faithful (in particular clerics and paladins, much like the Bookwyrm said) of a deity who is destroyed at a given time, or denied complete access to Realmspace cannot in anyway come to collect the souls of their worshippers.
However, this in itself presents a very unique case which I don't think has ever been properly addressed. The Faithless, and the False all come before Kelemvor to be given final judgement, but what happens if some of the those classed as 'Faithless' are only in this current belief state because their patron deity has fallen from power...? Does Kelemvor still judge them as 'Faithless'...?
In 2e PS, this type of problem was dealt with by allowing the souls of those faithful whose deity had perished to be collected by the deity who now holds the portfolio of the destroyed deity. In other less dramatic situations, the soul would be allowed to journey to the plane of faithful's chosen alignment, then becoming a petitioner of the plane itself, rather than of a deity.
I was never really satisfied with those interpretations as it still left a lot of situations open, without any resolution.
In the end, I think Kelemvor would probably judge each and every case of this instance on it's own merits, never working from an established framework or guideline when it came to dealing with such Faithful/Faithless. However, since this situation is highly unlikely to be a regular occurence, I really do not think there is much reason to put much thought into it...
So, up until Leira was no longer a viable choice as a patron deity, I believe that Kelemvor would most likely have allowed those souls of true Leiran faith to function as petitioners of their planar alignment (since it is highly unlikely that those of Leiran faith would support the Dark Sun, although maybe there have been a few cases of former Leiran faithful heading on over to Cyric's camp), or a new and improved third option which we could probably all devise on our own right here...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 07:51:37
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If so (and with the current status of belief = godhood) would not a god be possible to return to life from pure belief alone, no matter how non-invovled (as we know there are a few rather stubborn Aoists out there... Perhaps we shall be one of them ). Granted that the Dead gods might remains dead but what of those whose fate was unknown, or related to more non-deceased status. Thus opening the door perhaps to both Leria and an old favorite of ours, Amunator. After all, was not Tchazzar a red dragon who obtained godhood as such? (true he was consumed by Tiamat as he became a godling, or so it is said)..... Hmmm... Ao's decree, faith and belief equalling power... this can have farther reaching effects than perhaps first anticipated no? |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 08:07:40
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I've never been of the belief that a deity actually dies...The PS sourcebook/adventure Dead Gods makes that clear enough. On the Astral plane, anything is possible...especially when it comes to deities.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 16:19:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I've never been of the belief that a deity actually dies
Exactly, some are only dead until the next edition of D&D and the Forgotten Realms comes out.  |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 18:46:51
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| But what about the second Goddess of Magic, Mystra? She can't come back, not even when Lord Ao wanted to resurrect her. If someone as powerful as an Overlord can't do it, I don't think anyone else in the Realms can. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 20:49:31
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| yes but she died twice and then the where in avatars and her image from the astral plane. |
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Leira, Lady of the Mists
