| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 03:17:07
|
|
I've been wondering lately, gentle-and not so much-sages, how exactly do items like a Ring of Protection +1 work? Do they surround the wearer with some kind of invisible, but tangible force? If an enemy strikes a person wearing such an item, and his attack fails, do people see the blade just slide away?
|
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
|
|
Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 04:34:54
|
Well since items like those are magical who can say.
Maybe it thickens the air about the wearer so weapons etc loose much of their speed when striking so the force of the strike is lessened. So with the denser air it'd be like trying to swing through water.
If it were to create a shield about the wearer then wouldn't having an impenetrible shield be more effective?
Well thats my two cents.  |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
 |
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 04:41:55
|
| I don't think it's like a shield that's around you. I think the ring's magic will affect the blade when it touches you, maybe lessen the blow like Lina said. For a cloak of protection, the cloak will actually protect you against blows and magic, stopping the attacks before they even touch your skin. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 14:26:52
|
It depends upon the item in question. The 3e bonus types quite help to clarify this.
In the case of a ring of protection, the bonus is a deflection bonus. Generally this means that an invisible field of force deflects some of the blows.
In the case of bracers of armor, the bonus is an armor bonus. I view this as a solid area of force created to duplicate armor pieces, yet it moves with the wielder.
Natural armor bonuses-Strengthened skin, or scales, or such.
Dodge bonuses-Increase agility somewhat, allowing for quicker dodges.
Insight bonuses-A sixth sense gives you the feeling someone is attacking you, allowing you sufficient time to get out of harm's way.
And that's all I can think of for now... |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 17:56:09
|
I'd have to check when I have access to my books, but I believe that bracers of armor are, in fact, a deflection bonus. I don't think it's a force effect (thus protecting you from some creatures and attacks), but I could be wrong.
A deflection bonus is available both when flat-footed and when avoiding touches, so I'm with the idea of slowing the blow. The thickening of the air is a good analogy -- I'm sure that would be what it would feel like. It's what I'm going with, anyway.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 02:33:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I don't think it's like a shield that's around you. I think the ring's magic will affect the blade when it touches you, maybe lessen the blow like Lina said. For a cloak of protection, the cloak will actually protect you against blows and magic, stopping the attacks before they even touch your skin.
thats how i always thought of it |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 06:50:54
|
Well, it seems I got bracers of armor mixed up with rings of protection. No matter.
So we've established that deflection effects work to slow or misdirect the object. What about natural and normal armor bonuses?
Obviously the first would only work when the weapon made contact with the skin, but does that mean that the person in question is hard to the touch? This appearently isn't so for familiars, but it's also been shown that familiars' bonuses are magic-based (even though they work in antimagic fields, since if their masters die, they're treated as having a nonexistant master of two levels lower. So I suppose that magic-given natural armor only comes into play when struck hard (kenetic-reactive, to use SF parlance ). What about when it's gained through a feat? That's supposed to be through the character having tough skin. How hard is the skin supposed to be?
As for armor bonuses, additions to existing armor are easy -- you describe them as being tougher, absorbing more and more blows. What about armor magic that's not built onto armor? Cloaks and bracers? Is there a 'clang' as an enemy hits? Does the weapon simply stop, like it does for force effects? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 19:32:00
|
Natural armor is easy.Makes your skin more resiliant to attacks.That doesnt mean that the skin has to be rougher or courser, just more resiliant.
I think items that give armor bonus just work sort of like mage armor its just is like an invisible armor that protects you over other armors or robes.
-The Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
|
|
|
Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 20:27:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by RogueAssassin
Natural armor is easy.Makes your skin more resiliant to attacks.That doesnt mean that the skin has to be rougher or courser, just more resiliant.
so u could take a blade n run it along ur skin n it wouldnt cut? |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
|
|
|
Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 03:18:58
|
That's the idea of natural armor. Essentially it makes you skin more difficult to pierce, like scales or something akin to it, without actually changing the skin itself. I would assume it would mean hits would do less damage, and blows like glancing hits would not really hurt. Also, I think damage like crushing or something that could, theoretically, hurt you though your armor would be lessened, since natural armor makes your body more resistant to damage. Really it applies to any damage, because, regardless of armor, you will be hurt by a solid strik even a like, theoretically. Of course the differences in protection really only exists to make armor class stacking easier to manage, but anyways.
I see normal armor bonuses as only strengthening the protection provided by you armor. It is essentially an augmentation to your armor by magical means, making it stronger and more resiliant. I would think any bonus provided by bracers or cloaks just magically reinforces the armor, and does not project some magical barrier. So, any clang would be from contact with the armor. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmmpie"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
|
|
|
Fibura Gauntlet
Seeker
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 10:19:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2
I've been wondering lately, gentle-and not so much-sages, how exactly do items like a Ring of Protection +1 work? Do they surround the wearer with some kind of invisible, but tangible force? If an enemy strikes a person wearing such an item, and his attack fails, do people see the blade just slide away?
You could do that if the attack would have succeeded but for the Ring of Protection. Then you could consider the source of the next armour bonus and decide whether the wearer would have been hit but for his helmet in which case he should exclaim "Oooh! Mind me 'ead!" and so on... 
I'm only partly familiar with the rules so I'm just expressing an opinion, but I don't believe (A)D&D works like that. Combat is abstract. The fighters are exchanging numerous blows, blocks and parries within a round but you only get to roll for the ones that count. In that context, hitting someone and not injuring them doesn't seem so noteworthy IMHO 
Someone put me straight if I'm wrong about that please.
Edit - To answer the original question, a magical item in my opinion works by making you less likely to suffer physical harm. Luckier, both in battle, and in terms of dice rolls |
- Fibura Gauntlet
A scrib(bl)e on the margins of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Fibura Gauntlet on 29 Jan 2004 10:24:30 |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 22:27:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
I see normal armor bonuses as only strengthening the protection provided by you armor. It is essentially an augmentation to your armor by magical means, making it stronger and more resiliant. I would think any bonus provided by bracers or cloaks just magically reinforces the armor, and does not project some magical barrier. So, any clang would be from contact with the armor.
But I was talking about armor bonuses from items, which don't stack with normal armor. So any character who wants to use bracers of armor would have no use for normal armor.
For instance, my character Jack Archer has a pair of bracers of armor +1, but no normal armor. So what would happen there? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 22:33:37
|
| Wow, I am getting old. Anyways, there I would say it is essentially an invisible force, cannot be felt, seen, or even percieved beyond a magical aura. I would doubt it would clang, but it would shield you from some blows. Its tough to say exactly how it would function because the AC system works fine with normal armor concepts (i.e. heavier the armor, the more protection), bur with the magical protection is it a invisible breastplate or something? It's definately weird. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmmpie"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
|
|
|
Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 22:34:22
|
| that also didnt answer my ?...would that mean u could runa blade across ur skin n it wouldnt cut? |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
|
|
|
Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 22:37:23
|
| Yes. Depending on the blade and the amount of natural armor. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmmpie"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
|
|
|
Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 14:55:26
|
Bah don't listen to all of them. Think of something such as a +1 ring as how Lina said it. Or as the others said it if you realy want. Or you could actually thinking of it as a "luck" factor. Such as luck magic. A ring of pro normally (at least in second and third if the DM's allow it) will add to your saving throws. Again if the DM allows it. How a sheild would add to such things is beyond me. How a feild of air or tuffer skin would is also beyond me. I just like to think its some form of "luck producing magic." Sounds good to me how bout you?
|
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2004 : 07:10:24
|
Well, perhaps . . . but there already is a type of bonus called a luck bonus.
Maybe I should just go with a subtle effect on a weapon . . . like the deflection idea. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 11:08:50
|
| Luck bonus Cult_Leader? If it were truely reliant on luck then why not name it Bracer of Luck +1, instead of Armour +1. If they were really Lucky then sword and arrows would have the effect of rubber everytime they hit. I'd hurt but won't kill. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
|
|
|
Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 17:04:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
Yes. Depending on the blade and the amount of natural armor.
thatd be sweet |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
|
|
|
Ezekil
Acolyte
Norway
22 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 01:23:30
|
| What about "telekinetic/magical barrier"? the blade sort of deflects on some strange invisible aura created by the ring? Or would that be more like a Deflection quality? |
Ezekil
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance" |
|
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 02:34:47
|
| Well, a telekinetic/magical barrier would most likely be a shield around you. It probably won't even be invisible too, just kinda like a spellshield sorta thing. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
|
RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 22:22:08
|
I belive that natural armor is just enhancing your skin to make it resistant to sword cuts and blows.
i think that AC bonus is just your armor offering better protection by covering more vital areas,
and finally macical bonuses are from magical reinforcement of your current armor or defenses.
-THe Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
|
|
|
Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2004 : 04:43:27
|
Since Ezekil brought up the subject of mind attacks. How do protective items shield the wearer from psychic attacks from something like a mind flayer?
Also, items which add to strength, how do they work without overtaxing the body? If someone was physically weak and they put on bracers of strength, does it increase the body mass of the muscles? If so this would wear out the muscle fibers and reduce the effectiveness of the body to respond to commands, especially if they never take it off. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
|
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2004 : 04:49:27
|
| Lina, I guess protective items create a shield to protect you from psionic attacks. For example, a helm of charm protection protects you by not letting the spell reach to your mind, using the helmet's magic to protect you. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Protective items
