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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Oct 2013 : 01:26:02
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Actually, I have been giving them a chance - I've been telling everyone to do just that for the past year+.
Now its time for them to put their money where their mouth is - I want to see REAL "support for all eras", not some undated post-Spellplague material.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2013 : 03:35:47
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I prefer to think of the recent Baldur's Gate adventure/sourcebook as a good start.
Hopefully that city and Athkatla, Saerloon and Selgaunt all get more coverage in 5E, as Ed's "Eye on the Realms" columns have talked about the later three and wet my appetite for more. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2013 : 04:19:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I was disappointed when I read the original post in this thread... I was excited from the subject, because I thought a new Waterdeep sourcebook had been announced!
Sorry to disappoint, Wooley. But give it time....
In fact, what you and Mark are talking about is exactly the reason I started this thread. At least Wizards will hear what people think at a point where it may have some useful input. |
Edited by - BlackAce on 27 Oct 2013 04:23:40 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2013 : 14:39:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Now its time for them to put their money where their mouth is - I want to see REAL "support for all eras", not some undated post-Spellplague material.
Indeed. My fear remains that whatever NEXT supplements we gets will be specifics-lite and I'll still need my stack of AD&D and 3E supplements for the nit and gritty. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2013 : 22:00:00
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The Menzoberranzan source book was a nice example of era spanning city coverage. A Waterdeep book would need to be longer (obviously), but could be presented the same way.
That said, I'm happy to get whatever update comes our way. You've got a 1E, 2E, and 3E Waterdeep book. 4E less so. A 5E book would be fine by me. Yes, the world is bigger than Waterdeep, but Waterdeep is the NYC/London of the Realms. It makes sense to detail it first. |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 12:56:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Kris the Grey
The Menzoberranzan source book was a nice example of era spanning city coverage. A Waterdeep book would need to be longer (obviously), but could be presented the same way.
Maybe I just need to give it a deeper read through but sometimes I feel like Menzo's 4e book is overhyped. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 17:49:02
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I'm a bit biased, I'll admit, but I can't distance myself from the City of Splendors, can I?
Are folks rightfully annoyed that Waterdeep's gotten so much ink while other cities languish undetailed? Then tell WotC that you want something more akin to FR Adventures or a sourcebook on more than one city. Can't say how well the idea will be received, as I've now been gone from TSR/WotC longer than I ever was with the company, and 90% of those with whom I worked are also gone.
That said, I'm curious as to why folks declare the material useless when 95% of what's put down for Waterdeep could easily be used in any city important to their campaign (with various exceptions being landmarks, sundry NPCs, etc.).
Lastly, if I were approached to revisit Waterdeep, I'd love to do it as a Volo's Guide style book with multiple narrators, each of whom are showing you their own personal views on Waterdeep, what makes it special/important, what they remember, where they frequent, etc. Seeing the city from a craftsman's viewpoint, then a guard's, an apprentice wizard, a caravan owner, etc. THIS would be a way to liven up and take new looks at stuff, have reasons for seeing new areas, etc.
But that's just my opinion and how I'd approach it, if wishes were fishes and all that....
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 18:02:40
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Steven I absolutely LOVE FR Adventures and wish there were books like it for both 3e and 4e. We need more general books before specific books.
The 4e line up was down right pathetic IMHO and was squandered by creating source books of the Drizzt novels instead of source books for the setting.
With that in mind, I think I'm going to start another thread. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 28 Oct 2013 18:03:10 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 18:31:19
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Mr. Schend, it's not so much that folks have a problem with updated material for Waterdeep, it's that SO MUCH of the Realms was, essentially, ignored under 3/4e...as opposed to previous eras where sourcebooks were created for most areas (the FR series books, for instance).
That said, I think your idea of how to approach a revisit of the city is GREAT. Multiple perspectives on the city would be an incredible way to go. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 18:33:03
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quote:
Lastly, if I were approached to revisit Waterdeep, I'd love to do it as a Volo's Guide style book with multiple narrators, each of whom are showing you their own personal views on Waterdeep, what makes it special/important, what they remember, where they frequent, etc. Seeing the city from a craftsman's viewpoint, then a guard's, an apprentice wizard, a caravan owner, etc. THIS would be a way to liven up and take new looks at stuff, have reasons for seeing new areas, etc.
Okay even though FR Adventures is my favourite D&D product of all time, I would still be down with this.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 19:14:40
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I am on the same page with SirUrza - I didn't say I wouldn't want them to produce one at all, I merely stated I would not want them to keep producing the exact same regional books, when so much else is still left unfinished (all the way since the beginning!).
Here's the catch-22: how the hell do they know "what sells" when all they do is keep re-hashing the same old areas? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Can I use Waterdeep material elsewhere? YES, and have. However, I can do this with most any company's sourcebooks and campaign world, so at that point, who needs WotC?
And BTW, I don't 'hate' Waterdeep - thats a strong word. I just see too much of my own NY in it, so I don't find it as interesting as most. In fact, my own 'super city' in my homebrew world is VERY loosely a cross between WD and Sharn... but a whole lot cooler 'cause its mine. 
They can produce 100 more WD books for all I care - just don't ignore everything else in the process. Anything outside of The Heartlands may as well not exist at this point. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Oct 2013 19:28:24 |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 05:59:31
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| Hmmm I don't think Waterdeep has near enough scaffolding to be confused for New York! :P |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 13:20:56
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce
Hmmm I don't think Waterdeep has near enough scaffolding to be confused for New York! :P
Give the Sundering a chance will you. :P |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2013 : 02:11:18
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| A hundred years have passed and all the human NPCs(including the immortal ones) in the city are dead. Last I read Waterdeeps' military fell apart and the its fleet burnt on the docks. A major thieve's guild has taken up residence. I don't have a clue who any of the masked lords are and I don't know anything about the movers and shakers in the city. The city seems like it could use a source book to bring back a few details. That being said, I would rather see the a source book on Silverymoon, but I would happily buy a new Waterdeep source book. Of course, all of that is contingent on the Sundering creating a 1480s era that I find worth researching. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2013 : 14:52:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I don't want WotC to cover Waterdeep in another one and done sourcebook. I want them to over the city for the life of 5E.
What I want is a bi-weekly mini sourcebook of about 20 to 30 pages that focuses on one block in one Ward of Waterdeep, with a black and white cut away map of one or two buildings on that block and a removable overhead map showing the block and naming all the locations on it.
Each sourcebook moves to a different Ward of the city. Once all the Wards are covered, a special sourcebook is released that focuses on other aspects of the city.
Then the cycle repeats itself. Each removable map in the new cycle fits alongside of its predecessor in the same Ward.
That might be nice. Are you envisioning this to be Electronic only? I am still a tactile print guy, so I would want it to be print.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2013 : 15:02:35
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| 100% paper product. Something you can put on your bookshelf and smile at with pride or put in a storage box for magazine-sized books and keep forever. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2013 : 16:36:06
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I would love to have something about Waterdeep : the Citadel of the Bloody Hand. Why ? Think about it : it is within Mount Waterdeep, connected with the sewers, Undermountain, the Castle and Harper's Hold. There's a LOT to write about such a dungeon, factions, intrigues etc... Not need to be a 100 pages hardbook, but some 30-40 pages even without an adventure in it, but a presentation of the organisations (The Guards, Harpers, monsters and the like), a map (I've been told it exists somewhere in Ed's/TSR's pile of papers) so it would be great for the DM and a benefit to Waterdeep's lore.
It could be "edition free" or for D&D5, I don't mind.
By the way, thanks Steven for the description of Harpers Bold in Dragon mag. Do you know why there wasn't a mini-map of the complex with the article ? Budget issue ? |
Edited by - Marco Volo on 27 Nov 2013 16:37:29 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 19:54:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo
I would love to have something about Waterdeep : the Citadel of the Bloody Hand. Why ? Think about it : it is within Mount Waterdeep, connected with the sewers, Undermountain, the Castle and Harper's Hold. There's a LOT to write about such a dungeon, factions, intrigues etc... Not need to be a 100 pages hardbook, but some 30-40 pages even without an adventure in it, but a presentation of the organisations (The Guards, Harpers, monsters and the like), a map (I've been told it exists somewhere in Ed's/TSR's pile of papers) so it would be great for the DM and a benefit to Waterdeep's lore.
It could be "edition free" or for D&D5, I don't mind.
By the way, thanks Steven for the description of Harpers Bold in Dragon mag. Do you know why there wasn't a mini-map of the complex with the article ? Budget issue ?
I'm assuming that you're talking about the Harper Safehold here, right? I believe we discussed the map potential and it was nixed for three reasons:
1. space (no room to add a 1/4 page map without cutting several hundred words);
2. budget/time (I think I got the article done at the last second and the timing didn't allow a map to be done without extra cost); and
3. after reading the article, the editor didn't believe a visual map was necessary beyond the text descriptions.
I'm of the same mind--what you've got is enough to give you a glimmer of what it's like and each GM can make of it what their campaign needs, not necessarily what was limited to my head more than 15 years ago. 
As for what the Citadel of the Bloody Hand looks like or would be mapped as, I've asked Ed about it a few times and he's said that he does have a map somewheres but it's never seen the light of publication (or it's simply too similar to the tunnels and corridors of Castle Waterdeep, which have been mapped enough for folks to use and from which to extrapolate).
As always, hope this helps a little.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Yet Another Waterdeep Sourcebook.....
