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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1829 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2013 :  19:49:48  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
One of my desires for 5e is to have the bulk of NDA material from the early incarnationS (1e/2e) of the Realms released and explained. Some things I would like to see more information on include:

1. Who is the Sorceress in Grey mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical?
2. What is the Sphere of Spring (and its corresponding story) mentioned in the OGB?
3. More information on the ranger Hawkstone (and his wife, I forget her name), also mentioned in the OGB?

There are other topics I would like to see as well. So, what are some of the things other scribes would like to see revealed?

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2013 :  20:44:47  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
NDAs are like political offices - they are easy as hell to create, but almost impossible to remove. In fact, they tend to spawn dozens of lesser versions of themselves all over the place (until the entire system breaks down so badly no-one can actually get anything done).

Yes... exactly like political offices.

@Arcanomach - I feel your pain, brudda, but its far easier for them to just keep them around, then go through that honking pile of useless protocols and figure out what they no longer need. Getting rid of them doesn't help them at all, so its not worth the effort.

Now... had we gotten that 'soft reboot', none of those would apply to a rebooted Realms (since it would technically be in a different reality). For those of you who didn't want such a thing, we are now stuck with every mistake, continuity glitch, hiccup, typo, and just plain bad design ever written into The Realms, forever.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 15 Oct 2013 22:46:08
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe

Germany
479 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2013 :  21:15:13  Show Profile Send Lord Bane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey now, only because people didn´t like a reboot, it does not mean they like all the mistakes done.
Sure it is easy to blame those who were against your view but what had that meant? Two realms = split fanbase and a ton of work with diverted resources and misunderstandings because the "bad" realms have fans and demand content and the "good" realms want the same. I don´t see any company except maybe marvel and their comics wanting to put on that pair of shoes, but i greatly dislike comparing p&p rpg with comics, it is like apples and oranges.
I too would like the NDA gone but i am against splitting realities. What the D&D branch needs is continuity with their lore, no 4e "kids with slings and stones" in the "glass house of lore" or saying "it all was just a dream" sort of approach. Planescape was a meta setting that had attempts of continuity, spelljammer had attempts of continuity as that too was covering several settings, even the realms tried continuity with it´s various settings incorporated, but aside that, it is a mess and before they split things in two, they need to patch up the holes that are left and were created by careless new editions. What they need is a continuity guard, someone that slaps fingers of people if they try to contradict lore and demands from them honest efforts of explanations of changes in regards to lore and not a handwave and two timelines running amok apart from each other.

The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2013 :  22:06:41  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Markus could you please lighten up a little? You're really bringing me down man.

I think before WOTC can reveal all the NDAs they need to first have an NDA summit with Ed. I think WotC will soon realize they have A LOT of free information they can publish that's already bought and paid for.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1829 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2013 :  22:10:01  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't understand why Wizbro can't simply wave a Wand of NDA Destruction at Ed and untie his friggin' hands so he can answer some of the questions we've had over the past decade.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7610 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2013 :  22:47:04  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I‘m unsure these maligned NDAs are all explicitly defined as reserved/forbidden topics. And I agree that - when the time is right in narrative context - they should be revisited and revealed.

Some are just dead plots, abandoned for whatever reason, and as often as not for very good reason. Others are simply old loose ends which weren‘t tied up and now aren‘t significantly apropos details in what has evolved into a very different setting. Some are left intentionally vague for the specific purpose of allowing DMs free reign in creating their own “canon-compatible“ homebrew lore.

For the most part I suspect that NDAs are observed by the authors as a professional courtesy within their ranks and as a method of holding true to the “spirit“ of Realmslore - specifically, to always provide answers and details which open more questions and possibilities. A legal imperative does certainly exist - and the nature of these agreements means that authors cannot definitively disclose details about quantity or quality of material being withheld - but I think the overall impact of NDAs is less about restriction and more about discretion. When any Realms author - including Ed himself - publicly bemoans the horrible fate of being unable to share precious lore because of contractual shackles, he is as likely being genuinely sorrowful as he is obfuscating the topic.

This isn‘t meant as negative criticism towards Ed (or any other authors), it‘s only meant to illustrate the pointlessness of directly asking a professional to act unprofessionally, the reveal the secrets he has (apparently) agreed to keep secret. To his credit, Ed (in person and through proxy) often reveals mountains of “open“ Realmslore for little reason other than to share his love of the setting. Surprisingly, evil megacorporate Wizbro often does very much the same thing.

However, if this scroll serves as a petition to release lore about Hawky then by all means allow this posting to serve as my signature!

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 15 Oct 2013 22:56:07
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2013 :  23:09:42  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Arcanamach - Because it doesn't work that way. They'd have to remember why they were created in the first place, who they were created for, and whether or not that 'old idea' is still worth keep under wraps. Most of the guys (and gals) responsible for them aren't even working for them anymore, making it an near-impossible task.

@Everyone Else -
Sorry guys, I'm waxing melancholy ATM. Reading through tons of old material (and some poorly shoe-horned in new material) has gotten my ire up {I had more here, but lets just drop it}. Add to that personal stuff (politics, my truck being broken-down for a week, etc), and I'm in a pretty foul mood right now.

Had another paragraph here, erased it. Wrote another, erased it. Then tried again, and just said **** it. Sometimes I need to just follow my own advice and not say anything at all.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 15 Oct 2013 23:10:43
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2364 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  00:44:41  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

One of my desires for 5e is to have the bulk of NDA material from the early incarnationS (1e/2e) of the Realms released and explained. Some things I would like to see more information on include:

1. Who is the Sorceress in Grey mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical?
2. What is the Sphere of Spring (and its corresponding story) mentioned in the OGB?
3. More information on the ranger Hawkstone (and his wife, I forget her name), also mentioned in the OGB?

There are other topics I would like to see as well. So, what are some of the things other scribes would like to see revealed?



I don't know where the Sphere of Spring is from... have a page reference?

Hawkstone had an entire write-up. His wife Lhoraie is dead, from childbirth as is his stillborn daughter. He seems to be favored by Meilikki who appeared to him.

I too would love to see more on the Sorceress in Gray.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1829 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  02:39:45  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
@Arcanamach - Because it doesn't work that way. They'd have to remember why they were created in the first place, who they were created for, and whether or not that 'old idea' is still worth keep under wraps. Most of the guys (and gals) responsible for them aren't even working for them anymore, making it an near-impossible task.


My main wish is to let Ed speak about NDAs that fall under his original plots and ideas that were never really published. It could be done in a series of articles if Wizbro wanted (I'd be willing to pay for it).

I thought the info on the Sphere of Spring was in the rumors section of the OGB but I can't locate it yet...it may be from another source.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  02:52:45  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

quote:
@Arcanamach - Because it doesn't work that way. They'd have to remember why they were created in the first place, who they were created for, and whether or not that 'old idea' is still worth keep under wraps. Most of the guys (and gals) responsible for them aren't even working for them anymore, making it an near-impossible task.


My main wish is to let Ed speak about NDAs that fall under his original plots and ideas that were never really published. It could be done in a series of articles if Wizbro wanted (I'd be willing to pay for it).

I thought the info on the Sphere of Spring was in the rumors section of the OGB but I can't locate it yet...it may be from another source.

i think material of this nature would make great fodder for the next Ed Greenwood Presents: Elminster's Forgotten Realms book.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  03:19:46  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I seriously hope we see another Ed Greenwood Presents book. I wonder if they would end up detailing his home campaign more or if it would be more of a Volo type guide, maybe a mix of the two?
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe

USA
324 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  06:57:31  Show Profile Send Drustan Dwnhaedan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think that would be so cool!
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  07:12:43  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pardon my noobishness, but what is OGB?

Everything ends where it begins. Period.



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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  07:13:21  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Edit:sorry double post.

Everything ends where it begins. Period.




Edited by - Xar Zarath on 16 Oct 2013 07:13:48
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1829 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  07:34:12  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OGB=Original Gray Box.

Anyone have anything to add to the wishlist? It's my hope that someone at Wizbro will read this and take steps to slake our thirsts.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  14:59:49  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't mind Fzoul back as a banelich. NDA wise, I'd like to know more about Larloch, which I think is going to happen. That old artifact that elevated the Red Wizards power prior to the Time of Troubles would be a fun one to know about too.
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe

Germany
479 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  15:42:03  Show Profile Send Lord Bane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fzoul as a banelich? He was brought back to life by Bane after Wotc elected the Shades as the "new cool kids" and shoved the Zhentarim into a corner with bad excuse and explanation how it all played out. Don´t get me started on that....
You want Fzoul to fail and Bane dropping him for the last Manshoon clone in stasis or Teldorn Darkhope?

The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  15:50:03  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
NDA's--the ones I've run into, as I think of them:

1. The Sword Heralds

2. That cave in the King's Forest where Ghazneths fear to tread.

3. What is the exact nature of the link between Cormyr, it's rulers and its people?

4. ...

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  16:04:53  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane

Fzoul as a banelich? He was brought back to life by Bane after Wotc elected the Shades as the "new cool kids" and shoved the Zhentarim into a corner with bad excuse and explanation how it all played out. Don´t get me started on that....
You want Fzoul to fail and Bane dropping him for the last Manshoon clone in stasis or Teldorn Darkhope?



I'm not even sure I'd put Fzoul in charge of the Zhentarim. I had more of an idea of he was a mentor / evil emperor type for the new High Imperceptor or something along those lines. Pairing Teldorn with him as a Deathknight might be fun too.

I'm sure Ed will fix up 5E nicely. Wonder if we'll get a campaign guide in 2014.
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

834 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  16:26:31  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ironically, the horrible 100 year jump that came with 4e and the stated intention of ignoring those 100 year and focus on the future would be two big reasons to open the NDA-gates for every mortal NPC that has zero chances to have survived up until 1485 or whatever "present year" will be in 5e (this includes all humans and the majority of demihumans with some elven and dwarven exceptions).

If the characters can't be alive and kicking by that time and if nothing will be said or wrote about the 100 years jump, then all information can be released without the dreaded argument "but this will kill other authors ideas".

And releasing such a wealth of information will generate so much goodwill it's not even funny.
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1442 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2013 :  16:39:59  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing peeps should consider with the time jump and this is one thing I do like about it: we won't or shouldn't see a rehash of information already published. It can all be new. And if 5E realms is detailed well, we can re-explore old areas as if they are new. That to me is exciting.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6426 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2013 :  00:03:37  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

And if 5E realms is detailed well ...



And that my friend, is where the rubber meets the road.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2364 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2013 :  02:06:46  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As far as things I'd like to see come out of the NDA closet, pretty much every question I've ever asked Ed has fallen into that category :). Mostly, for me it is "can you explain that magic you mentioned in more detail" or can you flush out more biographical/statistical information on this or that NPC you mentioned in your articles/books.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1829 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2013 :  08:33:00  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
As far as things I'd like to see come out of the NDA closet, pretty much every question I've ever asked Ed has fallen into that category :). Mostly, for me it is "can you explain that magic you mentioned in more detail" or can you flush out more biographical/statistical information on this or that NPC you mentioned in your articles/books.


I fell ya on that one MM. I have questions that haven't even received the NDA disclaimer (still waiting to find out if any of Cormyr's royal mages had royal blood, for instance). It would be great to get some of that old, elusive information many of us seek.

@MM: The reference to the 'Sphere of Spring' is actually called the 'Sphere of Summer' (sorry for the confusion) and is located in the 2e FR (boxed) Campaign Setting on p.20 of the Running the Realms book (the second entry under the month of Ches). So far as I know, no further information was ever released on this topic...but it is/was very interesting.


I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1829 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2013 :  08:41:26  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is the full entry on the Sphere of Summer mentioned above:

Rhalaglingalade, a soft-spoken, bearded archmage who recently settled in Neverwinter, has announced an important new creation: the SPHERE OF SUMMER. This enchantment is a series of complicated spells that bring into being a sphere of translucent force in which plants can be grown in warmth and controlled damp throughout the winter. Such spheres also allow the farming of tropical fruits and flowers in northern climes.

Since announcing his discovery, the archmage has thrice been attacked by Calishite assassins (notably Thyruin of the White Flowers, who escaped and is thought to be roaming the North in a savage mood) and survived capture attempts sponsored, it is whispered, by various merchants of Amn, Luskan, and even Thay. Rhalaglingalade has appealed to the Lords' Alliance for protection, and has been assigned a bodyguard of hired adventurers (each of whom is paid 2,000gp/month). Several of this guard have been slain already while repulsing attacks, but there seems no shortage of ready applicants, even from among the noble families of Waterdeep.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.

Edited by - The Arcanamach on 17 Oct 2013 08:42:50
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