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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 20:23:08
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| hmmm, and another add-on. The sentences seems to imply, but doesn't necessarily mean 15 to 20 DROW males. Given their tendency to use other races as fodder, and said races tending to use their males for such service.... kind of a weak answer, I know, but still worth considering. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Sluban
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 21:52:47
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| Sorry sleyvas but I must completly disagree. Most male drows must die fighting outside (but also in fights against houses). How many female drow warriors you saw patrolling? They usually have only one priestess in team the rest are males (In Drizzt comics Homeland it's clear). Starvation, disease, old age, accident, etc. also must more affect males because females on average live in better conditions. Only risk with can affects only females is pregnancy but it's rare to die from it. Ok in attacks on other houses are also slaves and monster but also male drows(of course defeated house is all wiped out). And remmember about sacrifices where majority of sacrificed are males (every third born male is sacrificed). It's overwhelming deaths of males. So 15-20 males to 1 female most likely fit to all deaths. |
Edited by - Sluban on 12 Oct 2013 21:55:20 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 14:59:00
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| Hmm that does not seem practical to me. 15 to 1 is far too lopsided a ratio for any society, even a violent and chaotic one like the drow. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 14:50:52
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Here's the quote y'all are looking for. And it's even worse for male drow than what others remembered:
quote:
Female drow usually throw themselves with energy and zeal into the endless, vicious intrigue and politics of the city. The bodies of many mark every twist and turn in the fortunes of the Houses, and the everchanging favor of fickle Lloth--but for every drow female who falls, fifteen to twenty males meet doom. (Menzoberranzan [Boxed Set], BkI: p5)
This sentence makes it pretty clear what I allready mentioned. Those internal wars for better standing and power only happens between the noble houses. The normal drow population is mostly unaffected by this, expect for those who get dragged into such fights.
Drizzts guide to the underdark also suggests this:
quote:
In cities that follow the Way of Lolth, the
dark elven populace is typically ruled by several dozen
noble houses, ranked in a strict hierarchy.
...
A constant, intense, treacherous, and deadly competition
seethes among the various noble houses, mirrored by
the constant struggle among individual priestesses, #145;to
increase relative station.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2013 : 01:57:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Sluban
Sorry sleyvas but I must completly disagree. Most male drows must die fighting outside (but also in fights against houses). How many female drow warriors you saw patrolling? They usually have only one priestess in team the rest are males (In Drizzt comics Homeland it's clear). Starvation, disease, old age, accident, etc. also must more affect males because females on average live in better conditions. Only risk with can affects only females is pregnancy but it's rare to die from it. Ok in attacks on other houses are also slaves and monster but also male drows(of course defeated house is all wiped out). And remmember about sacrifices where majority of sacrificed are males (every third born male is sacrificed). It's overwhelming deaths of males. So 15-20 males to 1 female most likely fit to all deaths.
You misread me... males are more likely to die a violent death than females. Females are more likely to die of old age, accident, starvation, etc... because they send the men off to die violent deaths in their place. Everyone's got to die (well, normally). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2013 : 10:08:46
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Well, i may be completely wrong but the quoted paragraph (thanks BEAST) doesn't say "each and every time a drow female dies, 15 to 20 males suddendly fall dead". It clearly talks about war between Houses and Priestesses of Lolth and that's not something that happens everyday, otherwise there wouldn't be drow cities left standing by the time any of us runs a campaign (or authors write novels/sourcebooks).
This can let us hypothesize a few things:
- in warfare outside city walls drows use slaves, summoned and bound monsters and undead, so the male losses aren't as bad as that of, say, surface human cities were the armies are made of able bodied males and that's it;
- each and every time something goes wrong for a house/city/temple, the females get the blame, so for the 5 or 10 males dead in a battle there are 2 or 3 priestesses sacrificed for incompetence;
- there are intrigues and assassinations inside each House that surely doesn't involve the annihilation of the said House defenses: if two or more sisters/cousins war for supremacy they aren't going to destroy their own House (killing too many slaves/males means another House will come knocking guns blazing) and the victims will be limited, but the females that lost the war will be gone (and maybe the one that won too, if the Matron feels endangered). This is because the males are completely excluded from inheritance and powerplaces while the females have to fight with tooth and nail to become "the One", otherwise they're just a tad less expendable than the males;
- we like to imagine the entire drow society is made of gorgeus priestesses of Lolth rolling naked in fine silk sheets while ordering countless males to death but the truth is that what's true for Noble Houses' drows isn't true for lower Houses' drows and common drows. Being a female drow outside a Noble House puts the ball in the middle again, gender-parity-wise: not only you're subject to the common dangers of drow society but you have the highborn priestesses plotting to kill you if you try to make a name for yourself and the highborn males eager to take on you the revenge they can't take on their sisters/matrons/lovers, while a lowly born male is just another expendable soldier/wizard/slave in the making.
All of this to say: is there inbalance in male/female body count in drow society (as a whole)? Yes, absolutely.
Is this so high as to threaten the existence of drow society? Absolutely not. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2013 : 12:14:34
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As previously mentioned, drow are incredibly fertile - much more fertile than any other subtype of elves. Drow households with six or more children are not uncommon. Also, drow live for hundreds of years and remain fertile for most of their lives.
Also previously mentioned, drow males who prove to be adept survivors could easily father dozens of children with several different women since not only is the fact that he has the skills to live that long a desirable trait, but he'd also not necessarily have to have a hand in raising any of them. In a numbers game it's...possible, if not likely that this is feasible. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2013 : 18:57:57
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| Just another note regarding patrols and males/females. Female orders males to attack. Female thereby draws attention to themselves. Enemy targets leaders (as happens in most wars, the officers are big targets). Female drops. Males surviving flee if they cannot win, agreeing on a story of the failure of the female. If they can win, they do so, returning with the body of the female as proof of her failure. Female drow superiors are apt to agree that the female was inept (because they're all egotists). They may punish the males, but few would destroy them and thereby lessen their own power and/or potential to attract future followers. The only time they need to be very very careful is if the female was a highly positioned member of a big house... and lets face it, those individuals aren't going on everyday patrols.... they're sitting around the city plotting and sending the lesser females out to make a name for themselves on patrols. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2013 : 19:24:06
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I think all of you are missing a couple big points about Lolth worshiping drow. MOST drow born never reach adulthood. Children of non nobles are basically slaves and are used as fodder as discussed above. Noble children are looked upon as tools for their mothers. The useful ones are kept, the others discarded. Even when a child proves useful, it then has to 1) survive training with all the deadly adversaries the city has trying to pick them off 2) pass Lolth's test, which apparently also has more to do with ambition and ability than faith in Lolth - and 3) not become too much of a threat to the power of their other family members.
In most of these things, MALES tend to survive more because they are less of a threat. Training "accidents" happen of course, but no more than with females. When Lolth is testing a female, she is testing a priestess, not just a lowly foot-soldier so she is more stringent. All this adds up to more males surviving long enough to become the fodder for patrols and wars. Only the truly exceptional males (or the ones who manage to survive their time as fodder) survive long enough to attain any position within the family (usually they become breeding stock for the constant 'knock-em up - shoot-em out' system of procreation they embrace.
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sagechan
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2013 : 22:09:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I think all of you are missing a couple big points about Lolth worshiping drow. MOST drow born never reach adulthood. Children of non nobles are basically slaves and are used as fodder as discussed above. Noble children are looked upon as tools for their mothers. The useful ones are kept, the others discarded. Even when a child proves useful, it then has to 1) survive training with all the deadly adversaries the city has trying to pick them off 2) pass Lolth's test, which apparently also has more to do with ambition and ability than faith in Lolth - and 3) not become too much of a threat to the power of their other family members.
In most of these things, MALES tend to survive more because they are less of a threat. Training "accidents" happen of course, but no more than with females. When Lolth is testing a female, she is testing a priestess, not just a lowly foot-soldier so she is more stringent. All this adds up to more males surviving long enough to become the fodder for patrols and wars. Only the truly exceptional males (or the ones who manage to survive their time as fodder) survive long enough to attain any position within the family (usually they become breeding stock for the constant 'knock-em up - shoot-em out' system of procreation they embrace.
While agree with the description not sure if I agree with the "most don't reach adulthood" at least based on novel excepts (with an obvious focus on Menzo) it seems drow don't produce children at an extremely fast rate. I think RAS described that the sheer number of children in the Baenre family was highly unusual. While the drow have a hierarchy of fodder, even the weakest male is consider far more valuable then the slaves and goblinkin that get used first for that roll.
Unless your the unfortunate third living son, i think your overall chance of reaching adulthood is pretty good in drow society. |
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Drow society
