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Originally posted by Lord Bane

Entropy was used by the Imaskari in the war against Mulhorand and their gods.

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Originally posted by ksu_bond

Here is a new wrinkle...according to the old FR-Listserv http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0204c&L=realms-l&P=7160" target="_blank"> http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0204c&L=realms-l&P=7160 , Entropy was yet another creation of Talos in his efforts to undermine Mystra...so this begs the question, and since Thomas M. Costa wrote the write up, how does this impact cannon?

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Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Maybe that was the original link (Talos instead of Shar) <snip>

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Originally posted by Demzer

I just read the article, what i got from it is that it was a primordial that eagerly took part in the Dawn War (hence "God Swallower"), was bound by Ao (so it was inert and stationary) and was freed by the Spellplague and the reunion of the two worlds (and for some imperscrutable reason spared the Karakoks and Lutcheq and moved south-east to start it's anew it's swallowing program).

So i think this means that, for canon lore, it was inert and stationary from the Age before Ages until the Spellplague. No connection to the Imaskari or the Orcgate Wars or with the deities, just a big black ball doing nothing.

I hope i'm wrong.

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Originally posted by ksu_bond

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Originally posted by Demzer

I just read the article, what i got from it is that it was a primordial that eagerly took part in the Dawn War (hence "God Swallower"), was bound by Ao (so it was inert and stationary) and was freed by the Spellplague and the reunion of the two worlds (and for some imperscrutable reason spared the Karakoks and Lutcheq and moved south-east to start it's anew it's swallowing program).

So i think this means that, for canon lore, it was inert and stationary from the Age before Ages until the Spellplague. No connection to the Imaskari or the Orcgate Wars or with the deities, just a big black ball doing nothing.

I hope i'm wrong.

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No cannon ties no...but the 4e material does provide Entropy with a much older history that would allow for it to be apart of Imaskari plots and the Orcgate Wars.

The fun is in the piecing of it all together.

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Originally posted by Demzer

Alright i take the "inert and stationary" back since Entropy appeared in the Karanok mansion around 1346 DR (Lords of Darkness), so at least it could teleport around (or be moved by someone else).

No reaction to the Pandorym hypotesis? Probably because it's unfounded ...

The link with Tiamat (the "Nemesis of the Gods") isn't all that bad for a supposedly god killing weapon (be it of primordial origin even), but Tiamat "noticed" the existence of Entropy and started giving spells through it only in 1370 DR (even splitting it to give the Karanoks portable spheres of annihilation). Another problem this rises is that by 1370 DR Tiamat already killed Gilgeam and Assuran completed her job by killing Ramman so there wasn't any Untheric pantheon left to antagonize or against which unleash a primordial weapon, maybe she wanted to destroy the Mulhorandi and Faerunian pantheon to.

Looking at the GHotR there are a few god-related events in the same years as the more recent Entropy-related happenings:
- 1346 (when Entropy appears in Luthcheq):
1) Bhaal's avatar the Ravager gets banished from the Moonshaes (the year before Kazgaroth tried the take over through the Darkwell);
2) After centuries of silence, an avatar of Tiamat gets summoned in Unther
- 1370 (when Tiamat started granting spells through Entropy):
1) Pandorym partially escapes imprisonment;
2) Velsharoon shifts allegiance from Talos to Mystra/Azuth (maybe exploiting the fact Talos lost a nice chunk of power with Tiamat's take over of Entropy IF Talos freed/was using the sphere first?);

All this means something? Honestly, i don't know, maybe someone else will make the connection.

Concerning "which gods has Entropy swallowed" i think Mr. B. R. James dropped a subtle hint in Dungeon 178 in the People section saying:"House Karanok, it is said, has the divine blood of Nanna-Sin coursing through their veins".

My interpretation: having killed Nanna-Sin during the Orcgate Wars, Entropy retained some link with the deity's blood(line) and in a moment of wakefulness (maybe caused by the apparition of Tiamat's avatar in Unther) teleported to the nearest trace of that same blood(line).

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Originally posted by ksu_bond

For the moment it would appear that the history of Entropy is wide open with only a rough idea of when Entropy was imprisoned, and it's presence in Chessenta since the 1360s.

As far as the connection to Talos, that is only a factor if the REALMS-L content is considered canon...in which case a few more bits of history are filled in...

Although, in my campaign...Entropy will be linked to Shar (not Talos/Tiamat)...looking something like this...in eons past during the War of Light & Dark, Selűne tore the divine essence of magic from her body, flinging it desperately at her dark sister in defense of life in the sphere and nearly killing herself of the spiritual injury it caused her. A just-born being of raw magic tore through Shar, bonding to some of her divine magical energy and ripping it free of her, and reforming behind her as the goddess of magic, known now as Mystra, but then as Mystryl. The impact also resulted in the creation of a sentient umbral blot (blackball) formed from portions of Shar's (instead of Talos) essence that were torn away but not absorbed during the birth of Mystryl (in effect making it a primordial as well). The new primordial, now called Entropy, is the embodiment of her mother’s desire for nothingness and from it’s violent birth at the hands of raw arcane magic seeks to annihilate all those who are tainted by the arcane.

At this point I’ll have to do a bit more research…but the story would progress something like this…

Growing tired of the ever escalating conflict between the Gods and Primordials, Ao banished many of the primordials to Abeir. Ao imprisoned the near mindless Entropy, who was consuming entire planets and a few gods and primordials, in the guise of a sphere of annihilation and discarded the inert primordial on Toril with a warning to the gods: Govern the world wisely or face utter oblivion.

The Imaskari used their magic to dominate others and even reached into other worlds to enslave the people there. Emboldened by their successes, the Imaskari wizards grew so arrogant and audacious that they dared to defy the gods. So when they discovered an imprisoned primordial that was seemingly immune to magic and could annihilate anything it touches, the potential uses and irony did not escape them. – I’m thinking that after much experimentation they finally figured out a way to move it at least somewhat, possibly even a power of one of the Imaskarcana – While effective, it was ultimately difficult to wield as a weapon and had an insatiable thirst for all things arcane, having lost a number of promising wizards and powerful artifacts to its ebony depths. So in the end, they used it as a trap that often involved illusions and magical portals.

After the fall of the Imaskari Empire, Entropy sat forgotten in … until …

–1081 The Mulhorandi wizard Thayd and his coconspirators rebel against the empire and are defeated. Thayd is executed.
–1075 The Orcgate Wars begin in the region that is now Thay. Renegade Mulhorandi wizards employ Imaskari portal magic to open planar gates to an orc world. Mulhorand hires Nar, Raumathari, Rashemi, and Sossrim mercenaries to fight the orc invaders.
–1071 The orc god Gruumsh kills the Mulhorandi deity Ra in the first known deicide. The Untheric gods Inanna, Girru, Ki, Marduk, Nanna-Sin, Nergal, and Utu are also slain by orc deities.
–1069 The Orcgate is destroyed, and the invading orcs are defeated in the Priador.

Was somehow involved in the death of Nanna-Sin during the Orcgate Wars.

Sometime around 1346 DR, a particularly large sphere of annihilation appeared in the largest mansion of House Karanok. The sphere materialized in the middle of a torture chamber and completely consumed the wizard who was being tortured. Seeing this as an omen, the members of the house fell to their knees and worshiped the planar anomaly, which they called Entropy. Remodeling their mansion to make its current location a main temple chamber, the Karanoks blindly worshiped their nondeity in the belief that it would help them meet their goals.

In late 1370 DR, Shar (not Tiamat) used her power to alter the sphere, making it a conduit for her energy. She began granting divine spells to the nobles of House Karanok in the guise of Entropy. She has since caused the sphere to create smaller spheres, which can be controlled by members of the house. The Karanoks worship the daughter spheres, and they have been known to conjure forth scaly reptilian monsters (abishai) to enact the will of the Karanoks and Entropy itself.

So now to fill in a few of the gaps and round off a few of the corners...

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Originally posted by ksu_bond

To maintain canon, you could still keep the origin story outlined above and just switch the deities involved as appropriate...after doing this exercise I really doubt that the REALMS-L info can be considered canon as it conflicts too much with the other published lore, although I suppose you could have Talos somehow creating Entropy...

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