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Dandogdds
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 20:14:06
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I read the original series many years ago and just now revisited the series. I've been a big fan of Salvatores and thoroughly enjoy his Drizzt books. As for the Spider Queen series I can say that I am loving re-reading about Pharaun, Quenthel, and the whole drow thing. I guess you could say that I get weak in the knees when I read about the whole race.
In any event, I'm on book 5 an can say that I went from loving the series to being absolutely dumbfounded by the 180 degree shift the series took. Let me explain, Quenthel up until this point was a woman who even when surrounded by enemies was haughty enough to demand those same enemies surrender to her small band of drow. I recall in the series this occurring many times. She was insanely devout to Lolth. Her nephew Jeggred was very much her pet and would do anything asked of him by her. He would never dare to even attempt to question Quenthels words. THEN, Book 5 happened and Quenthel was somehow a fearful drow. She was scared and sat by herself talking to her whip (the imps). She was almost going crazy. Jeggred smelled this fear and her lack of devotion to Lolth (please this is ridiculous) and was many times very ready to kill her for her weakness. He changed from protecting his aunt to Danifae. I mean the list goes on and on but I find that Book 5 is the low point of the series and really confuses anyone who has read book 1 to 4.
Any thoughts on saving me from my own thoughts. I want to very much like the series and book 5 imparticular but can't.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 20:39:28
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| The series is quite popular with a lot of our scribes, but I myself didn't care for it -- and the jarring shifts with character personalities was a factor in this. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 20:53:13
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D, are you saying you disliked the book just because the characters dramatically changed? Because dramatic change isn't necessarily a problem.
Or are you saying you disliked the book because you don't think that that dramatic change was explained well enough? "WTF?!!" is a classic response to less-than-stellar writing or editing.
I didn't like the changes, but I try very hard to refrain from judging things just because they're different from the way I would do them. I just chalked it up to the fact that "people [drow] are strange, when you're a stranger . . ." |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 22:05:34
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Yup, 5th is a bit of "er... what?" - but then, some others weren't all shiny either...
Anyway, it was obviously hard to match Dissolution, especially with moments like Pharaun's "putrid mollusk" speech and Gromph's weather fun.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Dandogdds
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 22:32:39
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| To answer the question, I just found that the characters that I thought I knew pretty well ended up being entirely different in Book 5. I'm not sure how a series with 6 books and 6 different authors is produced but I would figure that each author has a general direction they have to take when writing their particular book. Why Athans chose to deviate so completely off course is beyond me. All 4 others prior to his book kept each character the same except for him. I just felt I was reading a different series. Perhaps had he explained better why the hero's acted so differently I would have bought into it but literally each change was instantaneous. |
Edited by - Dandogdds on 11 Sep 2013 22:33:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 22:32:53
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
D, are you saying you disliked the book just because the characters dramatically changed? Because dramatic change isn't necessarily a problem.
Or are you saying you disliked the book because you don't think that that dramatic change was explained well enough? "WTF?!!" is a classic response to less-than-stellar writing or editing.
I didn't like the changes, but I try very hard to refrain from judging things just because they're different from the way I would do them. I just chalked it up to the fact that "people [drow] are strange, when you're a stranger . . ."
For me, I disliked the changes because they were abrupt, book-to-book changes. Had it been a gradual transition, it would have been one thing. Instead, we have character A in Book X acting in one manner, and then in Book Y -- which begins days after the prior book, if not hours or minutes later -- and now character A is dramatically different.
I think part of the issue was not enough communication (if there was any at all) between the various authors writing the books, and then an editorial failure to clean that up.
And I'm not blaming the communication issue on any of the authors -- as I understand it, the books were all written concurrently. If they had been written sequentially, with each author reading the books of the previous authors, I'm sure those rough transitions would have been much smoother, if not entirely absent.
Of course, that wouldn't have saved the series for me, because I still disliked most of the characters and how they interacted with each other, and I also felt the whole thing was something of a non-event. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Dandogdds
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 22:35:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
D, are you saying you disliked the book just because the characters dramatically changed? Because dramatic change isn't necessarily a problem.
Or are you saying you disliked the book because you don't think that that dramatic change was explained well enough? "WTF?!!" is a classic response to less-than-stellar writing or editing.
I didn't like the changes, but I try very hard to refrain from judging things just because they're different from the way I would do them. I just chalked it up to the fact that "people [drow] are strange, when you're a stranger . . ."
For me, I disliked the changes because they were abrupt, book-to-book changes. Had it been a gradual transition, it would have been one thing. Instead, we have character A in Book X acting in one manner, and then in Book Y -- which begins days after the prior book, if not hours or minutes later -- and now character A is dramatically different.
I think part of the issue was not enough communication (if there was any at all) between the various authors writing the books, and then an editorial failure to clean that up.
And I'm not blaming the communication issue on any of the authors -- as I understand it, the books were all written concurrently. If they had been written sequentially, with each author reading the books of the previous authors, I'm sure those rough transitions would have been much smoother, if not entirely absent.
Of course, that wouldn't have saved the series for me, because I still disliked most of the characters and how they interacted with each other, and I also felt the whole thing was something of a non-event.
I couldn't have said it better. I wish I could have just cut and pasted this as my original post. Thanks for seeing it my way. I guess from what I gather, alot of people felt as I did. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 23:16:48
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| Well, a lot of people here really enjoyed that series. I think I'm in the minority for disliking it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 23:45:31
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| Guess I'm in the minority as well. No, wait that's not entirely correct. I never actually read the series. I had been doing research for one of my characters (who was a follower of Eilistraee) on-line when I came across a summary of the plots of the WotSQ novels. I also found out what happened in the LP series (based upon what deity my character worshipped you can probably guess how I reacted to this information). Since the events of WotSQ shaped how events occurred in LP, I simply decided it would be better to read neither. I'm something of an oddball when it comes to my reading habits; once I've read one book in a series, I can't help but read all books in the series, even with a series I know I'm not going to like. So why bother starting a series I already know will upset me? (And now I'm ranting again. Sorry.) |
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jornan
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2013 : 03:49:15
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From what I can remember I absolutely loved the first three books and felt that the characters stayed pretty consistent throughout.
I don't really remember book four, but know that I have enjoyed other Smedmen books so it at least didn't bother me.
As for book 5, I've never been a fan of anything that Phil Athens has written in the Realms. From what I understand he was a good editor, but no dice on the writing.
As for Paul Kemps book six, I think he did a great job with what he had.
Overall I enjoyed the series, but it did kind of feel like a non-event to me as well. |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 06:56:56
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| I'd like to apologize to everyone reading this thread for my earlier posting/rant. I posted it without any consideration for the feelings of those who liked the series. Please just ignore it, it really is nothing more than mindless ranting without a point. |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 09:53:24
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| From reading a fictional story stand point I enjoyed reading the series, though the shifts in character personalities was a bit jarring...from a lore stand point it is hard to say that it really added much other than "explaining" Lloth's silence, which I'm not sure was actually needed. My only complaint with the series was the death of Pharaun, who I really enjoyed and felt would have been a great character for future books or as a NPC if nothing else (fortunately, I'm the DM so he's alive and well adding a bit of color wherever he goes)... |
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Dandogdds
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 19:47:10
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Out of all the characters in the series Pharaun was my absolute favorite. Some of the authors got it so right in some parts that I would just break out in a laugh when reading some of the things he would do or say. My wife who is hardly the fantasy type of person would look at me and roll her eyes.
Drusten, you needn't apologize. I am new here but from my understanding of this forum, any opinion is welcomed so you needn't say that you are sorry for your viewpoint. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2013 : 01:00:12
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Hmmm. I would have to read them all again to get a grip on the small changes. this is what i remember most.
Book 1: Pharaun was hilarious. The intrigue with Gromph trying to assassinate Quenthel was fun.
Book 2: liked the merc Grey dwarves and the battle in the city.
Book 3: Among my favorites. Gromph vs Dyrr for a minute was fun. The Myth Drannor trek was fun as heck! The god battle at the end was fun.
Book 4: This was the book I cannot remember well. I enjoyed it, but not as much
Book 5: Hated Ryld's death. Too abrupt. Loved the battle between Gromph and Dyrr/Nimor. The rest of the characters seemed to crawl and not much happened.
Book 6: Among my favorites. Loved the detail of spellcasting and divination in searching for the Phylactery. Loved Gromph going in to get it and everything about it. Some of the story dragged and was mop up duty. Nimor, Vhok, etc. Good wrap up of the main story. |
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WotSQ (spoilers) Book 5
