| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Sep 2013 : 17:33:56
|
Faiths and Avatars (2e):Waukeen is a relatively young deity. She appealed to the rising merchant class in the Realms ...
Faiths and Pantheons (3e):Vibrant and vivacious, Waukeen is a realtively young, hardworking deity who loves wealth not for itself but for what can be done and acquired with it
Anyone knows why she is a "relatively young deity"? Any hint at her origin or where she came from? Who was the deity of commerce before? When happened the switch?
Her stat block shows the 20 outsider dices of "native" deities (those that the ascende mortals like Bane, Cyric or Torm lack) so, is she an interloper deity?
If anyone has any insight or intriguing theory, please share.
EDIT: uhm okay sorry maybe i put this in the wrong subforum, if any moderator comes by feel free to move this in the General Forgotten Realms Chat subforum so we can theorize and speculate beyond established 100% canon.
Mod edit: relocated by request. 
|
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Sep 2013 18:07:35
|
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2013 : 18:32:43
|
Thanks Wooly!
And to add something to the discussion:
F&P:At the time of the Time of Troubles Waukeen was still a relatively young deity with few enemies other than Mask [...] As such, it was quite unexpected that Waukeen was never seen during the Time of Troubles and never reclaimed her mantle following its conclusion
So she isn't just young in attitude but in the literal aging-process related meaning.
This means as a deity she had just the time to befriend Liira (an enthusiastic, joyful deity) and earn the enmity of Mask (probably the reverse based on their portfolios) yet she had extensive planar contacts among which were an arch fiend (Graz'zt) and a deity from Oerth (Celestian). |
 |
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2013 : 23:42:34
|
According to the write-up for Zilchus (another Oeridian/Oerth deity), Waukeen lives with him. 
Considering the similar portfolios, maybe he's her Papa.
His brother is the Oeridian god of thieves, and they don't get along (which could explain her dislike of Mask... but I think its just an opposing portfolio thing in both cases).
And oddly, Celestian's holy symbol is like a combination of Shar and Mystra's - A black circle set with seven stars. Not that that means anything - I just find it interesting. Apparently - I learned after just reading through several wiki's - there was a War of Light & Darkness on Greyhawk as well. I guess the 'ripples in the pond' effect always occurs when there is war in the planes. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 11 Sep 2013 00:02:35 |
|
|
|
rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
|
|
silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 00:35:00
|
Something to also consider, she is on friendly terms with gond, then most others.
Other then that, it really is just left unsaid, one of those things that just arn't really explored. |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6647 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 00:43:02
|
Waukeen was created for the Realms by Jeff Grubb so fitting "her" in isn't straightforward. Ed or Eric Boyd would be able to come up with something more but my take would be that she was a minor deity from the proto-Calishite pantheon that was then given oomph by the Tethyrians (through a big boost in worship with the trade created by the opening up of Amn as a hub for overland north-south trade on the Sword Coast and then east to the Heartlands, Cormyr and Dales). She was likely a minor deity in the general Faerun pantheon until the first few centuries of Dalereckoning when she got bigger.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 01:25:39
|
“Relatively young“ probably refers to the much older-established deities in the pantheon. Waukeen certainly wasn‘t around in ancient Netheril.
I‘m not sure when the merchant class arose in the Realms ... merchants (and thieves) have been around long before the invention of coinage or currencies. I suppose they gained recognition, freedom (of a sort) from Feudal lords, and their first tastes of real power sometime after the so-called Dark Ages in our history - but I‘m not sure an analogous historical period existed in the Realms. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 11:52:59
|
| It would seem she's probably an interloper deity (Lord knows Toril gets enough visitors from other worlds and/or wildspace). However, I wonder if there aren't some heresies out there that try to pinpoint her birth from another deity (or a deity pair/trio/quartet). For instance, I could see some saying she's a product of Tymora's luck and Deneir's love of contracts. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 13:41:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Waukeen was created for the Realms by Jeff Grubb so fitting "her" in isn't straightforward. Ed or Eric Boyd would be able to come up with something more but my take would be that she was a minor deity from the proto-Calishite pantheon that was then given oomph by the Tethyrians (through a big boost in worship with the trade created by the opening up of Amn as a hub for overland north-south trade on the Sword Coast and then east to the Heartlands, Cormyr and Dales). She was likely a minor deity in the general Faerun pantheon until the first few centuries of Dalereckoning when she got bigger.
Acent, mine.
There are a few hints (but nothing concrete, because IIRC Steven Schend didn't want it 'written in stone') that the dgen that arrived in Calimshan all those centuries ago came from Zakhara. It is canon that they brought human/Genasi and halfing slaves with them (which makes that appearance of the Hin MUCH earlier then in Faerûn). What that means is that if what Krash postulates is correct, then we may be able to make the further assumption that those slaves brought some of their religion with them, and that Waukeen is Jauhar from the Al-Qadim pantheon.
Jauhar is depicted as young dancer garbed with coins - perhaps her ascension happened early in her life, and although she may be a goddess for quite some time, is still 'young at heart'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 11 Sep 2013 13:43:01 |
|
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 17:44:35
|
Forgive me but i won't try to multiquote everyone i'm responding now, i'll go with @XXXX.
@ Markustay (first post): In For Duty & Deity it's stated that Waukeen's domain (the Marketplace Eternal) is shared by the wealth and commerce deities of FR, GH, DL and Birthright (in order: Waukeen, Zilchus, Shinare and Sera), this is reiterated in On Hallowed Ground.
In On Hallowed Ground it's also stated that Selune knows and chats with Celestian because they share an interest in planar travellers, Celestian symbol is much more a merge of Shar and Selune symbols than Shar and Mystra (considering that since Selune was Mystryl's favorite mommy their symbols are very similar, but the original is Selune's).
@ George Krashos, Ayrik and Markustay (second post): I'm inclined to believe in this case young is not just "young at hearth" because the part in the History/Relationship section in Faiths & Pantheons hints that her close to non-existent relations with the rest of the pantheon, for good or for ill, are due to the fact she hasn't spent much time in it. I'm not seeking a specific number of years (she's XXX years old) but just guessing she may very well be under the thousand years old inside the pantheon (Bane is "barely" 1700 at most and is not listed as "relatively young", has lots of enemies and allies/servants).
And if you're a deity, even a demipower, you interact with the rest of the pantheon for sure, that's why, even if it sounds like a good one, i don't buy her calishite origin because she hasn't ties (again, for good or ill) with Shar (very active in Calimshan), Ilmater and Lathander (venerated by the modern slaves), Ibrandul (Underdark caravans are always caravans), etc ... and Calimshan/Coramshan is what? Ten thousand years old? And in ten thousand years Waukeen has befriended only Liira while having a good relationship with Gond and Shaundakul and only Mask as an enemy? So that's four deities in ten thousand years ... for a "young at hearth" deity this seems an awfully low level of interaction.
Furthermore, beyond her being listed in Demihuman Deities as an ally of Vergadain there is no hint of past or present dealings with him or Abbathor while Shanatar was a big presence in Calimshan's past.
@ sleyvas: yep, maybe there's more, she and Tymora have very likely symbols (silver coin with Tymora's face facing right, gold coin with Waukeen's face facing left) and Vergadain, dwarven god of wealth AND luck has a gold coin for his symbol (and this interesting fellow even subsumed the Mulhorandi deity of luck, Bes, and has dealing with Nephthys).
And for the record, i'm not trying to "justify" her inside the setting, she works fine as is in my campaigns and all is good. I was just wondering at the oddity and what, if any, knowledge is there to unearth. |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2013 : 17:45:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Forgive me but i won't try to multiquote everyone i'm responding now, i'll go with @XXXX.
@ sleyvas: yep, maybe there's more, she and Tymora have very likely symbols (silver coin with Tymora's face facing right, gold coin with Waukeen's face facing left) and Vergadain, dwarven god of wealth AND luck has a gold coin for his symbol (and this interesting fellow even subsumed the Mulhorandi deity of luck, Bes, and has dealing with Nephthys).
And for the record, i'm not trying to "justify" her inside the setting, she works fine as is in my campaigns and all is good. I was just wondering at the oddity and what, if any, knowledge is there to unearth.
I agree on the not from Calimshan thing. They say she's a young deity, so my take is "within the last 1-3 centuries",since precisely as you say... Bane isn't treated as young.
You know, I had not thought about the similarity of their holy symbols (Waukeen and Tymora). I came up with that heresy on a whim because they seemed alike, but it actually might make sense (not necessarily true, but a damn good heresy). Who the "father" would be (if there even needs to be one) could be more open. IF it were assumed to be Deneir, then the coin might have certain symbols of wealth upon it (literally the symbols... like we use dollar signs, cent signs, pound signs, etc...). IF it were assumed to be another deity (Shaundakul might work too) maybe symbology of that deity might appear in the background (for instance, in the case of Shaundakul... swirling winds surrounding Tymora). Ironically, the other part of the "relationship" could also be another "female" god... perhaps some believe Waukeen to be born of two mothers (Lliira and Tymora) and that's why Waukeen trusted Lliira with her divinity (in which case the holy symbol could be Tymora's face with the triangle and stars of Lliira surrounding it on the one side, Waukeen on the other).
I wouldn't necessarily think humans would tie her to Vergadain only because they're in two different pantheons. However, I could see dwarves possibly having such a heresy. Such a heresy might be really interesting if they put forth a goddess of trickery (such as Leira) as being the mother, and then having it that she intended to hide the child from the father and that Vergadain "rescued her" through some trickery of his own. Not sold on this a whole lot, but if a good spin were put on it, it could be good. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2013 : 17:54:42
|
| just consider her Amuanator's daughter......... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2013 : 18:52:15
|
Okay, but the Jauhar thing still doesn't get ruled out, it just means she is a recent add, and can't be traced back to the original (Zakharan) interloping.
Our Ilamter might have the same name a Celtic deity, but he is Issek of the Jug, who is a Newhon god (and there is other canon evidence of contact between FR and Newhon). Since Ilmater originated (in FR) in Calimshan/the Shoon region, I thought perhaps I could find some evidence of Waukeen having come from that direction as well, but no luck (I can't even find a Newhon deity of commerce).
*Corrected badly mis-worded sentence. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 13 Sep 2013 13:39:46 |
|
|
|
Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2013 : 19:54:28
|
Is there any reason Waukeen couldn't have arisen in Amn, perhaps Athkatla, and then her worship spread with merchant-traders both up and down the coast... and also east into places like Arrabar? Then outward via the Sea of Stars to all the trading ports?
|
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2013 : 23:27:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Is there any reason Waukeen couldn't have arisen in Amn, perhaps Athkatla, and then her worship spread with merchant-traders both up and down the coast... and also east into places like Arrabar? Then outward via the Sea of Stars to all the trading ports?
Pretty much all options are on the table. She could be an ascended mortal. She could be an interloper deity. She could have been simply "birthed" as a goddess. Nothing canon has been said except "she's young". Now, that could be "new to the Faerunian Pantheon" and she's from another part of the world or another crystal sphere. It could mean "young because she only recently ascended to divinity". Lots of options... nothing canon... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 00:06:12
|
| She could also be a recently-ascended replacement for some prior deity, or maybe a composite of more than one older deity of trade. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 03:44:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
She could also be a recently-ascended replacement for some prior deity, or maybe a composite of more than one older deity of trade.
Oooo! I like this idea a lot. Especially the "composite" deity -- since that reflects particularly with how I've often bunched a number of lost or dead deities with similar portfolios in the past in my Realms, and then crafted a new power that acts as a composite which holds those similar portfolios [along with a few new ones] together. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 03:57:37
|
| ummm the only previous deity of trade that I can think of would in a way be Amuanator...... Contracts and all...... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 05:14:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
ummm the only previous deity of trade that I can think of would in a way be Amuanator...... Contracts and all......
Trade cuts across so many portfolios... wealth, travel, luck, prosperity, contracts, law, etc... that creating a composite deity as Wooly suggested, could indeed work. It doesn't necessarily, nor specifically, need to be about "Trade" exclusively. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 05:26:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
ummm the only previous deity of trade that I can think of would in a way be Amuanator...... Contracts and all......
It could have been a regional power, or one dwindled so much that only the dustiest tomes even mention him. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 09:43:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
@ sleyvas: yep, maybe there's more, she and Tymora have very likely symbols (silver coin with Tymora's face facing right, gold coin with Waukeen's face facing left) and Vergadain, dwarven god of wealth AND luck has a gold coin for his symbol (and this interesting fellow even subsumed the Mulhorandi deity of luck, Bes, and has dealing with Nephthys).
I can add on this point that Waukeen was named after the Walking Liberty half dollar, a picture of which can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Walking_Liberty_Half_Dollar_1945D_Obverse.png |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 13:52:43
|
The Waukeen Liberty Silver Piece?
She probably did arise in Amn, now that I think about it. She may have ascended so on her own, but I think there may have been some secret godly parent involved (I am still leaning toward Zilchus, but that's because I am a GH aficionado). On the other hand, it could just be that the gods of the Marketplace Eternal are always on the look out for 'rising new stars' to sponsor (and now I am picturing them being like the Shark Tank).
I just hate loosing a connection to Zakhara's Jauhar - I like when deities of different (Torillian) pantheons can be found spread around. Since Zakhara's history is only about a thousand years, and Waukeen appeared after Netheril fell (some 1400 years ago), its still a possibility, and she could still be considered 'young' (especially if she was a young mortal when she ascended - gods may 'mature' much more slowly). A thousand years would be considered 'ancient' by Al-Qadim standards, but thats just a drop-in-the-bucket by FR history. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 14:16:40
|
So, i cooked this up:
After the Mulhorandi quash the barbarians and bandits of the territories that will become the durpari nations (Durpar, Var and Estagund), a durpari trader named Satama starts preaching the teachings of the Adama (-256 DR, GHtoR page 51).
The Adama is a pantheistic belief much like the Pantheon from Zakhara, that's because it's from the faith of that distant trading partner that Satama took inspiration and because some of the Zakharan Phanteon deities, seeing the opening in the great crisis of the cultural and social system of those lands after the Mulhorandi onslaught, send him visions. Among these deities is Jauhar the Gemmed that becomes known in the durpari lands as Waukeen, goddess of wealth and commerce, member of the Adama (GHtoR and Shining South for her membership and prominence).
By -112 DR the Adama is widespread among the durpari and becomes the state religion in Var (GHtoR page 57).
In the meantime, as the durpari become more focused on commerce and trade they start to reach other areas of Faerun such as the Shoon Empire in modern day Amn, Calimshan and Tethyr.
Fast forward to 460 DR and during the disintegration of the Shoon Empire the Western Emirate of Amin becomes the kingdom of Amn (Lands of Intrigue book 2 page 20). With the indipendence Athkatla becomes the major port of the new nation and foreign merchants starts flocking here, durpari included.
Being a crossroad of cultures and with a lot of already established and venerated deities (like the four of the theocracy of Minsorran 300 -> 600 DR) the practical and business-minded amnians don't embrace the pantheistic faith of the durpari Adama fully but instead take what was lacking to them, a deity of wealth and commerce that cares for and protects merchants and businessmen, Waukeen.
Like the durpari spread their beliefs through sea trade so the amnians spread Waukeen's faith with their ships and caravans through the Sword Coast, the Western Heartlands and the Vilhon Reach (all lands with an active merchant class so far without a patron deity).
Why Waukeen's faith didn't spread sooner, like at the time when the durpari traded with Calimshan and the Shoon Empire or to the neighbouring lands? Calimshan and the Shoon Empire where imperialistic and expansionist, commerce was just another tool to extend their influence and nothing more, there wasn't the need for the church of Waukeen. The neighbours of the durpari lands where the nomads of the Shaar and the barbarians of Dambrath (not interested in the Adama that punished and condemned violence), the Mulhorandi, Untherites, the dwarves of the Great Rift and the hin of Luiren (all with their own clearly defined and well established pantheons) and a little farther there were isolationist Harluaa and "savage" Chult with all its problems. So until the end of the Shoon Empire the durpari had no contact with peoples and cultures that could have absorbed elements of the Adama.
This would explain why Waukeen is relatively new and "young" in the Realms and has few relationships and dealings with other Faerunian gods but has extensive extraplanar contacts including sharing her domain with three like minded deities from other spheres.
This is my take, please point out any inconsistency or glaring error you may find.
PS: Torm is in the Adama too, in -256, this means he ascended between the Fall of Netheril (Faiths & Pantheons page 74 in the history/relationship section) and that date and he was known in the south. Maybe our Torm is the lawful good version of Hajama the Courageous from Zakhara, go figure. |
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 14:24:04
|
| I'd say her religion spread with the Chondathan expansion, and she's a friend/ally of Lliira (who's also influential in the Vilhon Reach, same post-Jhaamdathan pantheon) |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2013 : 14:33:57
|
| Demzer - Great Lore! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6647 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2013 : 10:33:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
She could also be a recently-ascended replacement for some prior deity, or maybe a composite of more than one older deity of trade.
That's what I was alluding to when I said she could be a minor deity in the proto-Calishite pantheon that's been given a boost. Only Wooly truly understands me.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2013 : 15:24:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
So, i cooked this up:
After the Mulhorandi quash the barbarians and bandits of the territories that will become the durpari nations (Durpar, Var and Estagund), a durpari trader named Satama starts preaching the teachings of the Adama (-256 DR, GHtoR page 51).
The Adama is a pantheistic belief much like the Pantheon from Zakhara, that's because it's from the faith of that distant trading partner that Satama took inspiration and because some of the Zakharan Phanteon deities, seeing the opening in the great crisis of the cultural and social system of those lands after the Mulhorandi onslaught, send him visions. Among these deities is Jauhar the Gemmed that becomes known in the durpari lands as Waukeen, goddess of wealth and commerce, member of the Adama (GHtoR and Shining South for her membership and prominence).
By -112 DR the Adama is widespread among the durpari and becomes the state religion in Var (GHtoR page 57).
In the meantime, as the durpari become more focused on commerce and trade they start to reach other areas of Faerun such as the Shoon Empire in modern day Amn, Calimshan and Tethyr.
Fast forward to 460 DR and during the disintegration of the Shoon Empire the Western Emirate of Amin becomes the kingdom of Amn (Lands of Intrigue book 2 page 20). With the indipendence Athkatla becomes the major port of the new nation and foreign merchants starts flocking here, durpari included.
Being a crossroad of cultures and with a lot of already established and venerated deities (like the four of the theocracy of Minsorran 300 -> 600 DR) the practical and business-minded amnians don't embrace the pantheistic faith of the durpari Adama fully but instead take what was lacking to them, a deity of wealth and commerce that cares for and protects merchants and businessmen, Waukeen.
Like the durpari spread their beliefs through sea trade so the amnians spread Waukeen's faith with their ships and caravans through the Sword Coast, the Western Heartlands and the Vilhon Reach (all lands with an active merchant class so far without a patron deity).
Why Waukeen's faith didn't spread sooner, like at the time when the durpari traded with Calimshan and the Shoon Empire or to the neighbouring lands? Calimshan and the Shoon Empire where imperialistic and expansionist, commerce was just another tool to extend their influence and nothing more, there wasn't the need for the church of Waukeen. The neighbours of the durpari lands where the nomads of the Shaar and the barbarians of Dambrath (not interested in the Adama that punished and condemned violence), the Mulhorandi, Untherites, the dwarves of the Great Rift and the hin of Luiren (all with their own clearly defined and well established pantheons) and a little farther there were isolationist Harluaa and "savage" Chult with all its problems. So until the end of the Shoon Empire the durpari had no contact with peoples and cultures that could have absorbed elements of the Adama.
This would explain why Waukeen is relatively new and "young" in the Realms and has few relationships and dealings with other Faerunian gods but has extensive extraplanar contacts including sharing her domain with three like minded deities from other spheres.
This is my take, please point out any inconsistency or glaring error you may find.
PS: Torm is in the Adama too, in -256, this means he ascended between the Fall of Netheril (Faiths & Pantheons page 74 in the history/relationship section) and that date and he was known in the south. Maybe our Torm is the lawful good version of Hajama the Courageous from Zakhara, go figure.
The only problem I have with this, and its minor, is I don't get why the god's name would change whenever it moves to a new location. Granted, I say that and we have RW examples of this between the Greeks and Romans, but in the realms we're talking a case of real deities that really answer prayers. Other than that, it is a reasonable explanation (though so have most of these others been). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2013 : 15:55:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
The only problem I have with this, and its minor, is I don't get why the god's name would change whenever it moves to a new location.
No idea. But there's plenty of cases around like Selùne that's Lucha for the durpari and Selan for Zakhara or Talos/Baelros/Kozah. We assume the name changes are because the offender subsumed another entity but that's just that, an assumption, maybe Selùne just wanted to be called Lucha because she likes it more.
In the case at hand maybe Waukeen was the name of some durpari barbarian/bandits deity of luck or looting or somesuch that had close to zero interactions with the Faerunian pantheon for the reasons stated in my previous post. That or Jauhar wanted another name for a change. |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2013 : 18:45:21
|
| Your 'cooked up' lore is excellent Demzer! |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2013 : 19:04:32
|
Probably for the same reason why large companies have several different 'brands'. Being a god (and running a religion) is very much like running a business, after all.
Ex-Cyricist: "I HATE Bane! I'd never worship him!"
Evil Priest: "But this isn't Bane... its Xvim! Xvim is so much better then Bane! And now he has twice the stain-removal power as other leading gods!"
Ex-Cyricist: "I'm in!"  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 14 Sep 2013 19:06:23 |
|
|
|
Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2013 : 19:47:29
|
| *prods Markus with map tomes for daring to claim that any imposter deity is better than his supreme tyranny* |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Waukeen
