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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 13:34:26
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Another thread prompted this thought, and I've never even considered this before, which is odd, since my own HB musings have them as something that existed before the planer setup (Great Wheel, etc).
It just seems to me that they shouldn't be bound by the rules 'normal' folk follow when they die.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 16:23:14
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| Back to the Far Realms? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 16:46:06
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But would they?
Thats the thing... that makes them more like fiends, or other outsiders, which they aren't (or are they?)
Since many of them are into this 'communal mind' thing, my thoughts are that not only do their minds get re-absorbed into the 'group overmind', but so does whatever passes for a soul (or perhaps aberrations are souless? Were those invented after the aberrations first came into existence?)
Is that it - aberrations are intelligence/sentience without a soul?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 20:28:56
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| It depends on the aberration, they are not all the same, there are outsider aberrations, prime aberrations, souless aberrations, magical mutant aberrations etc. Illithids, I guess, have souls that are twisted to form the elder brains. Aboleths have no afterlives and should live forever. They are blood of Piscaethces, those that die are failures, just mucus that nature/multiverse abhors and would want to get rid of. Maybe it collapses into ephemeral protomatter and then flows towards ether gaps, back to the Far Realm. |
Edited by - Quale on 13 Aug 2013 20:29:28 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 23:11:02
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Illithids are promised everlasting life through dissolution within their elder brain pools. Those who are slain in such a manner that their brain matter cannot be recovered, or who are deemed unworthy of salvaging, or who simply die by accident are weak and tainted anyhow, their contributions aren‘t desired by their kind. And they all understand a much harsher universe than humans can fathom - after all they propogate by consuming the minds and bodies of slave races, even as immature tadpoles they compete fiercely and eat each other, inferior specimens are routinely culled.
Illithids are often seen in Planescape lore, infesting all sorts of interesting places. They also have a Realm in the Outlands which promises a more conventional afterlife.
Slaadi obviously return to Limbo and adjacent planes of chaos, depending on their particular inclinations in life.
Blood fiends, and other abomination/fiend breeds, apparently originate in the lower planes. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 23:17:47
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I picture aberrations as more of a biological infestation...much like a virus. They no more have souls than a tree.
A tree can "sense" and even move...but it isn't the same as "us" in that it thinks about things.
Aberrations are simply a viral infestation to me... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 23:29:48
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I view Moander as the result of a god (a nice generic druid/nature god) infested by such an abomination essence. An invasion of the Far Realms into the (D&D) cosmos on a divine order, if you will.
Moander most certainly still possesses an immortal soul (god soul, whatever) which would normally drift across the universe and reach the astral upon his “death“. Except that it has been forever corrupted by abomination, amplified to such a point that he - mind, body, soul, and avatar - is now in fact an actual embodiment of such unwholesome corruption.
Such incomprehensible foulness apparently resides deep within places like the Abyss, almost as if it is so irrevocably lost to chaos and darkness that all hope has been eradicated and all that can remain would be utterly alien inhumanity amenable to (and some sort of link to?) the Far Realms. Perhaps abominations are “native“ to some hidden layers within the infinite Abyss. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Aug 2013 23:44:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 06:27:58
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Where do aberrations go when they die? New Jersey, where else?  
(No offense to any folks from there; I had to pick somewhere more well-known than the local speck on the map that is Holopaw  ) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 15:39:27
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| Since you can resurrect an aberration, I wouldn't have it that their soul goes to the far realm. Personally, if they have a deity, their souls should go to their deity's domain (Ilsensine/Maanzecorian for illithids, the Great Mother and Gzemnid for beholders). I'd further put aboleths as reverent of Ghaunadaur. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 17:19:23
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Ah, looks like I was kind of right: Ghaunadaur does get some aboleth souls. It looks like there's Pisaethces/Piscaethces "the Blood Queen" are definitely in the realms lore. Lords of madness lists 4 others that "might" be considered realms canon.
From Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, pg 14
While some aboleth venerate Ghaunadaur, particularly in its aspect as Juiblex the Slime Lord, most common aboleth and all savant aboleth worship Pisaethces the Blood
Queen.
This from Lords of Madness
One of the Elder Evils was the source of the aboleth race. The aboleths know this entity by the name Piscaethces, which roughly translates as “Blood Queen,” for it is from her blood that the primal aboleth was spawned. Piscaethces has since retreated from the physical world, and although insane cultists periodically attempt to call the Blood Queen back, she never stays for long. Her interests lie beyond this dimension. The aboleths themselves understand this, and they know that the Blood Queen didn’t spawn them out of scientifi c curiosity or a need for companionship. At best, the foundation of their race was a cosmic accident that came about merely as a by-product of the interaction between the Blood Queen’s body and the material world. Yet this concept does not trouble the aboleth; if anything, it has liberated them. If their progenitor is uncaring and unfeeling to them, they are free to make their own progress through existence without fear of reprisal or desire to please. What the aboleth race has done and shall continue to do, it does for itself.
Also, it then lists 5 "elder evils" and then states that they're akin to the Lovecraftian entities
Likewise, the five Elder Evils commonly honored by the aboleths could be previously unknown Great Old Ones or Outer Gods, or perhaps they are just alternate names for more
familiar entities:
Bolothamogg: Yog-Sothoth.
Holashner: Shudde M’ell or Tsathoggua.
Piscaethces: Cthulhu or Shub-Niggurath.
Shothotugg: Azathoth.
Y’chak: Nyarlathotep or Hastur. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 19:04:31
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I'd peg Piscaethces as Shub-Niggurath, which has been loosely identified (by Brian Lumley) as the essence of psionics itself (which could mean it is also Auppenser).
As for Cthulhu, I would say thats another name for Ilsenine.
All of these aberrational gods (proto-powers?) seem to just be ascended aberrations themselves (perhaps the very first 'deities').
I'm just not buying that aberrations have souls. I am not talking about D&D RAW here, I am talking about from a more multiversal, cross-genre point-of-view. They just seem to be something that preexisted the current universe (perhaps the Shadvari mentioned in CotSK is an ancient term for all these creatures?) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 01:51:45
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| Aberrations tend to consume, corrupt, and alter the essence of mortal things. It might be safe to assume they do the same to the essence of immortal things. Their victims might be changed in the most horrible of ways, more than merely becoming alien-brained tentacle faces, their very souls might be twisted and altered into something incomprehensible within our universe. Aberrations might simply sidestep the usual rules of life, death, unlife, and undeath - they are simply "other". |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 03:58:46
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| I return to the fact that they can be raised/resurrected (unlike constructs, undead, outsiders, and elementals), so they've got to have something again to normal souls to return to their bodies. Before going off the deep end and stating they have something unusual just for descriptions sake, you need to take into account the game effects. While I agree, it would be interesting if they went to say the far realm.... that would also mean that resurrection can pull people out of the far realm.... making it not so hard to get out of. If they didn't have a soul, then they should be like outsiders and require something on the power level of true resurrection. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 05:23:50
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I return to the fact that they can be raised/resurrected (unlike constructs, undead, outsiders, and elementals), so they've got to have something again to normal souls to return to their bodies. Before going off the deep end and stating they have something unusual just for descriptions sake, you need to take into account the game effects. While I agree, it would be interesting if they went to say the far realm.... that would also mean that resurrection can pull people out of the far realm.... making it not so hard to get out of. If they didn't have a soul, then they should be like outsiders and require something on the power level of true resurrection.
Unless, of course, their souls are unable to return to the Far Realm, because it's cosmologically so distant, so they remain somewhere closer and thus are able to come back. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 14:58:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I return to the fact that they can be raised/resurrected (unlike constructs, undead, outsiders, and elementals), so they've got to have something again to normal souls to return to their bodies. Before going off the deep end and stating they have something unusual just for descriptions sake, you need to take into account the game effects. While I agree, it would be interesting if they went to say the far realm.... that would also mean that resurrection can pull people out of the far realm.... making it not so hard to get out of. If they didn't have a soul, then they should be like outsiders and require something on the power level of true resurrection.
Unless, of course, their souls are unable to return to the Far Realm, because it's cosmologically so distant, so they remain somewhere closer and thus are able to come back.
right, that would make sense, so they have some "elder evils" that have become somewhat equivalent to gods (if not gods in actuality), and these beings probably may be harnessing the souls possibly to continue to survive. They may be unusual in that their intellect is able to continue on in an elder brain somehow (much as how in theory someone could copy our brain to a hard disk), but their "soul" works like others. Main thing... they have souls. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 04:17:59
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| We might be thinking about it all backwards. The soul-thing of an abberation might be unable to return (or remain within) the Far Realm because it is overly tainted by *our* universe. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2013 : 03:08:26
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| Sentient Virus... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Where do aberrations go when they die?
