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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 04:26:03
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Does anyone think the floating land motes will be discarded with 5e? Of all the things brought in by WotC that I hated, I actually liked the floating islands of land doting the skyscape.
*dotting even
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I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 04 Aug 2013 04:28:09
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 05:00:46
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| I thought they were silly when I first heard about them, but that might have been a knee-jerk, "I hate everything 4e" reaction, because now I think they are okay. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 05:34:54
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| I'm fine with the concept of floating bits of land, but I didn't care for the 4E FR execution. The Realms already had a handful of things like that; I think it diminished the wonder of the setting to make them more commonplace. |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 05:47:29
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Not sure, but I thought the floating motes were alright...I didn't care for the suddenness, randomness, nor the number that were created with advent of 4e...but I do like the idea, the Netherese more or less did the same thing after all.
When I finally make time to flush out what the "spellplague" actually was in my campaign this will definitely be one of the elements that remains (just fewer of them, and not quite so sudden). |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 06:50:43
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| Not as much ruined the wonder, just reinforced that , you are not in kansas anymore toto. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 07:11:34
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Not as much ruined the wonder, just reinforced that , you are not in kansas anymore toto.
When you've only got a handful of something, it's wondrous. When you have it everyplace, it's common. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 07:11:50
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I'm hoping they're kept in some form or another.
I know "The Sundering" intends on *tidying up* some of pieces of the 4e Realmslore that most fans have taken issue with, but I've always been of a mind that there's room enough in the material to make everything published for the setting work. It's just a question of where and when.
So, no, I don't think the floating land motes will be discarded in 5e. They're a great concept that remains evocative of the fantastical, and I feel that with some creative tweaking, the land motes can remain fun locales for campaign-adventuring potential. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 07:35:35
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Never had a problem with the concept per say, just didn't like 4E marketing making them as a "thing" for the setting. Pushing them to the fore-front didn't make the setting seem any more distinct or original, but rather they seemed uninspired, like playing catch up far after-the-fact to a 70s rock album cover. It's tapping into an era that many players, especially newer ones, may not even comprehend ("get"), except for having some notion that its kitschy.
Also, Eberron had them (random, floating piece of land) as a current setting feature first (Stormreach, Xen'drik), and the towers of Arcanix in Aundair fits the same imagery, as does something or another in WoW probably. FR arrived so late to the party, it's not even funny.
Now if the whole setting had a groovy psychedelic rock vibe by default like some of the OSR games/settings that would be another matter.
The 'cause Spellplague explanation also seems too tidy as these mega-events are oft to appear. I would have preferred the Spellplague down-played and instead have major elements introduced over the century as their own mini-event. Wheels within wheels, the setting isn't just about a single deific conflict that wrecks the landscape. People actually have plans and goals of their own.
Just like any geological feature, it's not mere existence that makes it interesting, it's what's associated with it, happens around it/because of it, or what's on it. Why were the flying cities of the Netherese so evocative, because people put them there for a reason. Why are earth motes less cool? Because they lacked the stakes of the Netherese enclaves.
A refocus on relevance instead of "Earth Motes, land that floats!" would go some way to make them seem unique and not some random hovering block of dirt.
Some people have been asking for increased depth of lore come 5E. I think they (WotC) should start with breadth first. |
Edited by - Dark Wizard on 04 Aug 2013 07:42:09 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 13:51:08
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I agree there are too many and it was too sudden. But the question now is how does WotC reduce the number of them in an interesting, meaningful, and most importantly REASONABLE manner? I don't want a random "wizard goes out and blows up blocks of dirt" story or "Ao decides that these motes are ruining my lawn" crap.
I'm thinking maybe a story line that is meant to 'reconstruct' some of the collateral damage brought on by the Spellplague an age ago and, as a by product, SOME of the motes fall (immediately) while others drift downwards and perhaps some just drift off in a random direction. I'm too tired at the moment to come up with something specific that is interesting. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 13:57:11
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| My initial reaction to them was probably due a comparison some (official) folks made to the 4e setting be more like a Roger Dean piece of artwork... and I can't stand his art... and I disliked Yes. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Aug 2013 13:58:03 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2013 : 15:32:04
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| I liked them and was fine with the way they came to be. I don't picture them in my head as common sites in today's realms, just maybe less rare. I hope they stay around officially in 5e |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11712 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 01:44:04
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I think they'd be great in areas of Faerun. Floating above the great rift makes absolute sense to me. However, they shouldn't be commonplace and there should be a reason they're in a given area. Personally, I'd fill half of them with cloud/storm giants and dragons. Then, having them as great places for wild griffons and hippogriffs to be able to reside without fear from ground dwellers for the most part.
Personally, did they document a lot of these in 4e, or was it something unusual and they never really gave a number? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11712 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 01:44:27
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I think they'd be great in areas of Faerun. Floating above the great rift makes absolute sense to me. However, they shouldn't be commonplace and there should be a reason they're in a given area. Personally, I'd fill half of them with cloud/storm giants and dragons. Then, having them as great places for wild griffons and hippogriffs to be able to reside without fear from ground dwellers for the most part.
Personally, did they document a lot of these in 4e, or was it something unusual and they never really gave a number? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 02:13:38
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There was also mentions of flying islands in 2ed and 3ed as well, just not as numerous and varied. All the Netheril Enclaves were in practice are City-motes by 4ed standards.
Even if all of the natural motes are refused with the land, it will not stop the already existing artificial ones or new artificial ones from popping up by magic users who want to impress. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 05:41:45
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I am hoping the motes go away.
I make no secret I am hoping to get a realms as close as possible to the 1358 realms. I will accept the spellplague happened. I just do not want to see too many visual remains of the 2008 muck up.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 18:44:53
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| Hmm, if we do indeed get a 'soft reboot' I would think some visual remains should be left behind as a reminder to all of the consequences of magic and gods gone crazy. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 19:33:09
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so in a world that has in its past and even in the 1300s DR, you had
whole floating cities built on sheered off mountaintops (netheril / shades),
floating citadels and castles (Halruaa / Queen Amlaruil's Summer Palace in Evermeet / the floating castle in the Marsh of Chelimber),
floating towers, floating pyramid keeps (Shangalar the Black / The Sphere of Kaatos),
enormous chunks of floating rock (The Temple in the Sky / Valamaradace's Floating Mountain),
floating ships (halruaan skyships)
and even castles on clouds (cloud giants and silver dragons),
you have an issue with floating clumps of land? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 19:56:55
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quote:
Originally posted by rjfras
so in a world that has in its past and even in the 1300s DR, you had
whole floating cities built on sheered off mountaintops (netheril / shades),
floating citadels and castles (Halruaa / Queen Amlaruil's Summer Palace in Evermeet / the floating castle in the Marsh of Chelimber),
floating towers, floating pyramid keeps (Shangalar the Black / The Sphere of Kaatos),
enormous chunks of floating rock (The Temple in the Sky / Valamaradace's Floating Mountain),
floating ships (halruaan skyships)
and even castles on clouds (cloud giants and silver dragons),
you have an issue with floating clumps of land?
Well, when all previous cases of floating clumps of land involved their deliberate lifting by magic, and the amount of magic involved kept it from being commonplace (outside of Netheril), then yeah, suddenly having them pop up all over the place for no readily apparent reason can be an issue. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 04:01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by rjfras
so in a world that has in its past and even in the 1300s DR, you had
whole floating cities built on sheered off mountaintops (netheril / shades),
floating citadels and castles (Halruaa / Queen Amlaruil's Summer Palace in Evermeet / the floating castle in the Marsh of Chelimber),
floating towers, floating pyramid keeps (Shangalar the Black / The Sphere of Kaatos),
enormous chunks of floating rock (The Temple in the Sky / Valamaradace's Floating Mountain),
floating ships (halruaan skyships)
and even castles on clouds (cloud giants and silver dragons),
you have an issue with floating clumps of land?
While I myself don't have much of an issue with the floating land motes [as I noted above], I think a lot of folk tend to look back on the other examples of floating lands that you've listed, and see how they've been ably incorporated into the Realms using existing lore, mostly. Some feel that this wasn't the case with the floating land motes.
Which is why I'm hopeful that the 5e Realms will give a better "grounding" [for lack of a better term] for the floating land motes in the Realmslore. They're fantastic adventure-locales in and of themselves, but with creative tweaking [where necessary], I do believe they have the potential to find a more defined purchase in existing [or newly crafted] lore, where possible. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 11:26:49
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| It'd be cool to have my own flying mote. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 16:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Does anyone think the floating land motes will be discarded with 5e? Of all the things brought in by WotC that I hated, I actually liked the floating islands of land doting the skyscape.
I hope they aren't discarded.
I liked their presentation in Neverwinter and I found myself imagining some interesting encounters/adventure hooks/Current Clack because of them.
I don't agree that land motes "everywhere", inasmuch as after the 4E FRCG was released, I didn't see much in the way of regular mention of them in the 4E content I consumed, beyond obvious places like Akanûl and the aforementioned Neverwinter.
Are there any in Cormyr or over Waterdeep?
What I'd like is to see the land motes "aged" such that work is done on them to better fold whatever motes still exist after the Sundering into the Realms.
Sleyvas mentioned giants and hippogriff, to which I'd add rulers or petty tyrants, priests of Talos and opportunistic merchants or mages. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 16:47:00
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quote:
What I'd like is to see the land motes "aged" such that work is done on them to better fold whatever motes still exist after the Sundering into the Realms.
Sleyvas mentioned giants and hippogriff, to which I'd add rulers or petty tyrants, priests of Talos and opportunistic merchants or mages.
THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS
I didn't look into 4e Realms too much but from what I can remember, not much was done with most of the land motes DESPITE their being around for a century or more. All sorts of flying creatures should have been nesting in them (dragons, griffons, pegasi, etc.) and some wizards, priests, etc. should have taken up residence in the many of them...especially since their write up stated that many of the land motes had good resources and clean water on them. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 20:08:08
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| I wouldn't mind a Motelands or Mote Kingdoms series of articles, something along the lines of the Border Kingdoms, a collection of Earth Motes with their aerial ecologies and petty warlords who've laid claim to the area, successions of thrones and abodes, ancient ruins dredged up from the face of old Faerun, self-exiled wizards, crazed adventurers (retired or otherwise), cultists, dragons, etc. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 20:24:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS
From your mouth (err, fingers) to God's ears. 
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I didn't look into 4e Realms too much but from what I can remember, not much was done with most of the land motes DESPITE their being around for a century or more.
I'm starting to think there was an Eye on the Realms article that touched on land motes, but I haven't found it yet.
In the meantime, I think it would be cool if they wrote something like Dark Wizard talks about, that includes a writeup for a clan of dwarves that believe they are called to do one of three things to land motes:
1) build great earthen hills until a land mote is reconnected to the world below it;
2) forge massive chains or stone pillars that link land motes to the world and so "take back" whatever earthen energy was unnaturally lost during the Spellplague and return it.
3) do that most unnatural of things for a dwarf (i.e., fly) and find their way to an land mote, there to mine into its heart and crush whatever core of energy makes it float, so the whole mess will come tumbling back down and return from whence it came.
I just can't imagine a dwarf seeing a land mote and thinking such is right. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 22:01:23
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| The Moonstone Mask in Neverwinter is tethered to the ground, but there was no indication of whether or not the tether did anything other than anchor it in place. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11712 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 00:38:20
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| I think it'd be rather interesting if there were some population that gathered groups of motes and chained them together and built bridges between such. It could be a small village in the sky, with a castle in the center. Perhaps it can even in a pinch go on the defensive by bringing its outlying villagers into the castle and then whirling about and smacking incoming dragons and such with the chained landmotes like morningstars. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 00:54:42
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I think it'd be rather interesting if there were some population that gathered groups of motes and chained them together and built bridges between such. It could be a small village in the sky, with a castle in the center. Perhaps it can even in a pinch go on the defensive by bringing its outlying villagers into the castle and then whirling about and smacking incoming dragons and such with the chained landmotes like morningstars.
I don't know about the latter part, but a village or town made up of connected earth motes is a nifty idea.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 01:00:24
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| Um, it was my understanding that the motes were stationary? As in they act as if still attached to the ground. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11712 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 01:11:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Um, it was my understanding that the motes were stationary? As in they act as if still attached to the ground.
I'm betting they could be dragged elsewhere by force though (if you're responding to my village in the sky idea). I too believe that they were intended to be stationary. Of course, that does bring into question... if you do make them move elsewhere, will they fall? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 01:59:47
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When something becomes ubiquitous, like parsley, it's no longer special. One flying Netherese city is a marvel. Ten flying cities is commonplace.
Earthmotes dotting the countryside, four or five in every region, isn't the Realms I'd like to see in the future.
They are an artifact of the Spellplague, and if the Spellplague is ending then earthmotes should go as well. Spellscars also. In the absence of spellscars, we can still have "wild talents" (which have always been part of the setting) and in place of earthmotes we can again go back to having flying landmasses be unique, or extremely rare, marvelous and surprising - something only the Netherese and Halruaans can simulate with special magics, epic spells, or the like.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 08 Aug 2013 02:01:05 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 02:21:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Um, it was my understanding that the motes were stationary? As in they act as if still attached to the ground.
But they don't have to be.
To really open up their campaign potential... mobile [or, better yet, random slow drifting] floating motes could provide some rather neat adventure hooks.
Kind of like what the flying citadels in DRAGONLANCE provided... earlier in the Fourth Age. |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Floating Land Motes
