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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Apr 2013 : 14:02:19
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Here is my poor attempt to create the 4 Edition Celadrin as well as my version of the 4th Edition Fey'ri. Which might be updated with more work. This will show that I am no Eric L. Boyd, and he would be the first to tell you that. With Idenity Theft and all...
Celadrin
Average Height: 5'5-6'1
Average Weight: 130-180lbs
Ability Scores: +2 Cha, +2 Dex or Int
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 Squares
Vision: Low Light
Language: Common, Elven
Skill bonus: + 2 Diplomacy, + 2 Religion
Eladrin Will: + 1 racial Bonus to Will Saves. + 5 racial bonus to
Save Throws versus charm effects
Fire Resistance: 5 + 1/2 your level
Trance: Rather then sleep, Celadrin enter a mediative state known as
trance. You need to spend 4 hours in this state to gain the
same benefits other races gain from taking a 6 hours
extended rest. While in trance, you are fully aware of your
surrounding and notice approaching enemies and other events
as normal.
Fiery Gaze: You have the "Fiery Gaze" encounter power.
Fiery Gaze: Encounter --- Fire
Minor action
Ranged Touch Attack 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma versus Will
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma Modifier Fire Damage
At 11th, 2d6 + Charisma Modifier Fire Damage
At 21th, 3d6 + Charisma Modifier Fire Damage
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Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2013 : 14:06:11
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Fey'ri
Average Height: 5'5-6'1
Average Weight: 130-180lbs
Ability Scores: +2 Int, +2 Dex or Cha
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 Squares
Vision: Low Light
Language: Common, Elven
Skill bonus: + 2 Bluff, + 2 Arcana
Eladrin Will: + 1 racial Bonus to Will Saves. + 5 racial bonus to
Save Throws versus charm effects
Fire Resistance: 5 + 1/2 your level
Trance: Rather then sleep, Fey'ri enter a mediative state known as
trance. You need to spend 4 hours in this state to gain the
same benefits other races gain from taking a 6 hours
extended rest. While in trance, you are fully aware of your
surrounding and notice approaching enemies and other events
as normal.
Change Shape: You can use "Change Shape" at will power
Change Shape: At-Will ---Polymorph
Minor action
Personal
Effect: You can alter your physical form to take on the appearance of any medium humanoid, including a unique individual. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 14 Apr 2013 14:06:38 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2013 : 20:39:37
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As part of my Fey'ri DDI article, I actually created rules for PC Fey'ri (basically a subtype of eladrin, like moon or sun elves), but WotC decided not to include them. The Fey'ri in my books can teleport, but it's unclear if that's fey step or individual magic.
This seems like a reasonable structure, though I'm not sure about the fire resistance. Seeing as demons fluctuate so much in elemental nature, I'd suggest either going all the way to variable resistance (5 per tier is probably sufficient for such a versatile power) or saying "Pick two elemental types: You gain resistance to these types equal to 5 + half your level."
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2013 : 21:19:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
As part of my Fey'ri DDI article, I actually created rules for PC Fey'ri (basically a subtype of eladrin, like moon or sun elves), but WotC decided not to include them. The Fey'ri in my books can teleport, but it's unclear if that's fey step or individual magic.
This seems like a reasonable structure, though I'm not sure about the fire resistance. Seeing as demons fluctuate so much in elemental nature, I'd suggest either going all the way to variable resistance (5 per tier is probably sufficient for such a versatile power) or saying "Pick two elemental types: You gain resistance to these types equal to 5 + half your level."
Cheers
I added Change Shape rather then wings or teleportation due to the fact it is more fluff (Strong strains of Succubi in them, whether devils, demons, both or neither) related as well as more useful for a small group of creatures who are going to be hunted if they appear in real form.
However, given how teleportation is linked to Eladrin, it might make sense such magics would have been well study and developed. Which explains how Fey'ri would have such spells with ease. Especially with the Last Mythril (Both the books and the Mythril itself), hinting at great elven understanding of teleportation and portal magic.
Fire Resistance was much a last option choice as I was not sure if it was the best fit. While Fire Resistance is Strongly link to the Firre (sp?) which the Celadrin came from in 3ed (Fiery CG outsider, now likely more advance Eladrin from Feywild... but could be similar link), for Fey'ri it was one of an option. They have a history for it, but they also had other powers as well.
Could have easily have been a bonus to charm effects (Charm Person and Suggestions were built in powers and link with Succubi DNA) or Damage resistance like you said (In 3ed it was DR 10/+1, but it also added an extra level adjustment. Which makes it easy to say it makes them over powered if not handle carefully. Or just used as a Prestage Class).
Better ideas are out these, I just did these quick and dirty. Which means I am not against improving them is something better comes up.
EX: I was wondering since Sorcerer was the Fey'ri favourite class, if just having them Cha, Int/Dex is enough or if I should replace Int with Strength to make it super-effective for a Fey'ri to become a Sorcerer. Instead of just very effective and allow wiggle room for other classes.
Thanks for the constructive comments and help. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2013 : 21:49:08
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When 4E debued, there was a poster on WotC boards that came up with a pretty cool Fey'ri write up. I'll re-post it here for fun (if that's cool?)
[quote]Originally posted by Diffan
I voted fly namely because they do alot of it. BUT I would like to have both honestly. I went back 5 pages or so but couldn't find the link so I'll just re-post it here. This is someone's homebrew take on Fey'ri using 4E stats. Guy's name was Barthalas and I feel its a really good version too! (note: I've also changed the Ability scores to keep in current line of other 4E products).
Fey’ri
Average Height: 5' 4" - 6' 0"
Average Weight: 130 - 170 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity; +2 Intelligence or +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Elven, Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, +2 Arcana
Ancestral Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the longsword.
Dual Heritage: You can take feats that have either eladrin or tiefling as a prerequisite (as well as those specifically for fey’ri), as long as you meet any other requirements.
Trance: Rather than sleep, fey'ri enter a meditative state known as trance. You need to spend 4 hours in this state to gain the same benefits other races gain from taking a 6-hour extended rest. While in a trance, you are fully aware of your surroundings and notice approaching enemies and other events as normal.
Daemontouched: Once per encounter, you can use either the Change Shape or Flight power.
Change Shape
Fey’ri Racial Power
You alter your form to look like some other humanoid.
Encounter * Polymorph
Minor Action; Personal
Effect: You can alter your physical form to take on the appearance of any Medium humanoid.
Flight
Fey’ri Racial Power
You spread your bat like wings and take to the skies.
Encounter * Move Action
Effect: you gain fly 6 (clumsy), if you are not standing on solid ground at the end of your movement you glide to the ground without taking damage.
Racial Feats
Born Flyer
Prerequisite: Paragon, Fey'ri, Flight racial power
Benefit: You may use your Flight power as an at-will ability
Improved Flight
Prerequisite: Paragon, Fey’ri, Flight racial power
Benefit: Your maneuverability while flying is improved by one category |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2013 : 18:46:03
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I totally remember this post from back in the day!
I like the dual heritage idea, but it has certain limitations. A lot of eladrin or tiefling only feats are specifically about improving the eladrin/tiefling racial abilities or enhancing bonuses they get that a fey'ri wouldn't.
I'm not sure building an entirely new race to represent a very tiny race of creatures is really necessary. My conception of a 4e fey'ri is an eladrin with a few tweaks to be a bit demonic.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2013 : 19:09:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I totally remember this post from back in the day!
I like the dual heritage idea, but it has certain limitations. A lot of eladrin or tiefling only feats are specifically about improving the eladrin/tiefling racial abilities or enhancing bonuses they get that a fey'ri wouldn't.
I'm not sure building an entirely new race to represent a very tiny race of creatures is really necessary. My conception of a 4e fey'ri is an eladrin with a few tweaks to be a bit demonic.
Cheers
An Eladrin with a few demon feats (or Celestral/Divine/Feywild feats for Celadrin) or one of those background things like in the 4ed Neverwinter Campaign Book also works.
But the reason for more detailed on a small race is the same reason the first two MM of 4ed had very limited, quick and dirty write up for monsters.
There is always someone at the table who wants the weird if they are allowed it. Strange races, strange classes, strange feats, skills, prestage classes, paragon paths, epic destinies and so on.
There are also the person who wants to know the details and/or the numbers their character can perform.
Basically each game has the potential to have to same degree an oddball and/or a anal obsessive on board.
Or those are just my thoughts and opinions.
With Forgotten Realms and D&D:
The novelists can write anything as long as it works in world and moves a good story.
The players can do anything since they can Macguyver what the need from the mechanics (Like building on to an Eladrin, like you suggested, to make Celadrin and Fey'ri).
The people writing out the mechanics have a lot of hard work, making what the novelists and the players do make sense in game for others to use. In a uniform standard.
Which is why Ed Greenwood is the man as he can do all three at once in his mind. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2013 : 21:22:32
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There are a number of us authors who do all three in our minds. I may consider myself primarily an author, but I have some significant D&D design credits (including the Neverwinter Campaign Setting) to my name. I frequently design statblocks for the characters and creatures in my novels, mostly because I use them at my own table.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 14:48:55
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Been trying to do an alternative to a full racial write up, as suggested by Mr. de Bie. Trying for a Character Theme. I have partial make up of these so far, just posting for second opinions.
Let's start with Celadrin:
Racial Prerequiste: Eladrin Class Prerequiste: None
Notes: Celadrin are basically Eladrin in form, but should be open to all classes. Even if some classes are better then others.
Associated Skills: Diplomacy, Religion, Insight
Diplomacy was big in the write up of the Celadrin Mr. Boyd did. Religion is linked with their link to the Elven Goddess of Love, also Insight fits this as well as it allows them to act as match makers better. IMO.
Theme Feature 1st Level: Fire Resistance 10
Theme Feature 5th Level: + 2 to Diplomacy, give enemies - 2 penalty to all saving throws versus Charm Effects of Celadrin
Theme Feature 10th Level: Fiery Gaze Encounter Power
Fiery Gaze: Encounter --- Fire
Minor action
Ranged Touch Attack 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma versus Will
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma Modifier Fire Damage
At 11th, 2d6 + Charisma Modifier Fire Damage
At 21th, 3d6 + Charisma Modifier Fire Damage
Not sure if Fiery Gaze or Fire Resistance should come first, but figure you want to be fire proof before shooting fire. But it could be reversed. Also figure a boost of Diplomacy is in alignment with their charm and linked to Love Goddess. An ability to be hard to resist when casting charm effects would help, plus the default class of 3ed Celadrin is Bard and both it as well s the 4ed versions have a lot of charm/enchantment effects.
Still thinking on the Utility Powers. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 15:01:52
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Now the piecemeal I have for the Fey'ri.
Race Prereq: Eladrin Class Prereq: None
Similar to Celadrin, they are a Eladrin base. Some classes are better then others, but should allow for all classes.
Associated Skills: Arcana, Bluff, Stealth, Religion
Bluff and Stealth are skills which help in hiding as well as taking up identities with their change shape abilities. Arcana is linked to the Eladrin background, but also allows them knowledge of Elementals... like Demons. Religion is similar as it allows them knowledge of Immortals... like Devils. So whether they blend Demons or Devils, they're covered.
Feature 1st Level: Change Shape At-will power
Change Shape: At-Will ---Polymorph
Minor action
Personal
Effect: You can alter your physical form to take on the appearance of any medium humanoid, including a unique individual.
Feature 5th Level: ???
Feature 10th Level: Have not decide on one of two options:
Fiendish Wings At-Will Power:
At Will
Move Action
Personal
Effect: You fly a number of spaces equal to your speed. You must land at the end of this Movement.
Or
When Bloodied for 1st time, select one of these (Fire, Acid, Cold, Lightning, Thunder). Gain resist 5 of that type till end of encounter. At 11th, gain resist 10. At 21st, gain resist 15.
Change Shape is what I wanted for the base ability of the Fey'ri. I have not figure out the 5th level feature. 10th is confusing. Based them on Dragonwing from the Dragonborn Paragon Racial Path, a 12th level utility, but I could have it as the Fey'ri 10th level utility instead. The Variable resistance, come to Demons at least, came from a theme from the Heroes of the Elemental Chaos.
Thoughts? |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 19 Apr 2013 15:02:41 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2013 : 00:47:55
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I like this concept. And yes, Change Shape is central to the concept of the fey'ri. I concur. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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4th Ed Celadrin (plus Bonus 4th Ed Fey'ri)
