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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 18:50:41
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What is the thought of the candlekeep scribes about making a feat that would give the ability to flank with a ranged weapon inside 30 ft.?
I'm thinking prerequisite in the line of: Point blank Shot, Vexing Flanker, Precise Shot and maybe Improved Precise Shot.
What is the thought on this???
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 20:15:44
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In some ways flanking exists already for melee that is not a feat, as I understand it.
quote:
Flanking
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.
When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.
Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking.
Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus.
Creatures with a reach of 0 feet can’t flank an opponent.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 20:33:36
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| Yes, for melee, but for ranged i dont think so. So im tinking about creating my own feat for that! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 20:43:34
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I say you do not need a feat for it, flanked by sword or by bow it does not matter, target is still flanked.
It also would be unfair to require a ranged person to take a feat when a bladed one does not need to have a feat.
ranged weapons of course have a chance to miss and even hit friend, however there can be no feat that will insure that if missing foe will not hit friend. A feat to hit target and not hit anything else is so wrong. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 21:10:57
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It just says: "When making a melee attack..." So I assumed that it only worked with melee weapons.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 21:30:34
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Well I would house rule it, especially with something like Point blank Shot where range is close. It should not require a feat. The basic concept of flanking is a person can not guard front and back as well. 2nd Edition had facing when AC was effected because shield was only in front, most of the time. Flanking basically uses the same concept, however instead of changing AC gives a +2 to hit that beats an AC that would not be beat by non flanked attack with same dice roll.
I do not see any need for a feat, I think that is too much a requirement. House rule it in some way, maybe flanked by ranged weapon if foe withing 30 to 60 feet (you choice as to the distance) and only one range increment. That is some weapons only have range of 10 feet like dagger.
I did look at the SRD 3.5 about missile fire into melee and was not happy to discover that either arrow hits target and is destroyed or misses target and has 50 percent chance of being destroyed. I could not find anything about hitting something or person else. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 21:50:40
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The thing is, that when flanking one gets sneak attack, so would a ranged flank. So I would deem it possible to use inside 30 ft. Like that of sneak.
Yes... I too can’t find a rule about firing into combat should imply a risk of hitting an ally.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 22:10:34
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| A feat called Distant Advantage exists in 4E that pretty much does the same thing. Basically Advantage is a +2 bonus to attack rolls when the target is flanked by two of your allies. I allow the use of this feat in 3E with no problems (heck, I didn't even require prerequisites but that's more of my hatred for Feat Chains than any attempt at balance, which I don't think is really required). |
Edited by - Diffan on 01 Mar 2013 22:11:38 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 22:10:46
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In some ways sneak attack is based on stealth, being hidden to some degree. Seeing an elf with a bow circle to your side and maybe rear negates the surprise attack. As target your only hope is to get rid of the melee combat in time before an arrow lands in your back.
This of course is my take on the matter. No feat, house rule on flanking instead. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 22:18:20
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| Im thinking that if one can sneak when flanking in melee without being "stealthy" I would say that it was indeed possible to stand at range and sneak. If it is indeed possible to flank at range. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 22:32:18
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Flank at range clearly is possible in Real World. At least when you talk about armies. Two armies face each other, then one army has cavalry or archers that were hidden attack the side or back of the other army. The army that is attacked from an unexpected direction for which do defense was planned for is less defended from it.
As to the D&D rule set, RW is not a factor, there is some requirement of suppression of facts or belief for the game to flow quicker. In the end you are DM and get to decide what works for the game. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2013 : 19:37:21
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| There are feats, class abilities or some other such mechanic that I have personally seen in the 3E that grants either a bonus, or denies the foe Dex bonus, or grants flanking benefits if one ally strikes it last turn. I know there's a variant Ranger class ability that does that. |
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
187 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2013 : 02:45:03
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| This exact feat exists, it's either in PHBII, Complete Adventurer or Complete Warrior. I think it's one of those at least. I remember my ranger had it a few years back. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2013 : 05:25:44
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As far as Ranged Flanking goes, there's very little material for it. The PH2 has a feat called Deadeye Shot (PBS, Preice Shot, BAB +4, Skirmish/Sneak Attack prereqs) and you can reserve your attack until an ally attacks the target which will give you a Flanking bonus.
The other option is from the PH2 with a Ranger varient in which you sacrifice your Animal Companion. In return, any target you hit with an attack instantly grants the Flanking bonus to your allies next attack against that target OR until the beginning of your next turn. This doesn't help you gain Flanking, but your allies and it works with every target you hit. So if you and someone else in the group had this feat, you could ping-pong the bonuses back and forth each round.
Outside of that there isn't anything you can do to grant yourself a Flanking bonus with ranged weapons. I'd still suggest the Distant Advantage feat from 4E and just 'port' it over to v3.5 and it'll work just fine. You can even make it a bit harder to obtain, such as giving it prerequisites like: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Base Attack Bonus +6). |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2013 : 18:27:13
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Whether or not it is possible, I have decided to allow flanking with a ranged weapon inside the 30 ft. where ranged sneak attack also is allowed. This has been partly due to this thread, and a discussion with one of my players.
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Ranged Flanking
