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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jan 2004 : 21:38:25
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Wich class is the best?
So far I've been sticking with the Mage, mostly 'cuz he can be Dualed with a Fighter, but also out of 'respect' for the fact that mages actually make themselves worthy of what power they have aquired, while Sorcerors just wake up one morning and find them selves to be capable of casting spells.
Anyways; Wich class is the best? Personally I don't se what kind of advantages the mage could possible hold over a Sorceror. Shure he can memorize a few more spells and, perhaps, cast a few more, but the Sorceror is more versatile, and has acess to all of his spells at any time.
Could anybody please tell me why on earth I should keep playing the Mage? I'd really like to know, 'cuz the Mages are much cooler than Sorcerors, but they [Sorcerors] seem so much more versatile, and thus, powerful...
Anybody?
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Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
Edited by - EcThelion on 18 Jan 2004 21:40:09
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe
Norway
603 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2004 : 21:55:28
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| If you think about it you cant mean that you think mages are cooler? I mean they spend their hole life reading and sucking up for older and more powerful mages. While a sorcerer just starts to kill things with his power and in this way they gets more powerful. |
Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2004 : 23:16:08
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Sorcerers may have access to less spells, but they can cast them more. In my opinion, there is no class, or combination of classes, that can beat the sorcerer (in BG 2, that is, if you're playing NWN, then the Shadowdancer just rocks! ). |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 00:15:06
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What!? You can't be serious...
Mages study their whole lives to become what they are. They *Strive* to become it. They *work* to become it. They *really* make themselves worthy of the title of 'Mage'.
Sorcerors, on the other hand, are just like... like... those mideval kings! Just becouse it is in their blood they are better than everybody else! They can even rival mages, whom have spen their whole *LIVES* studying the arcane arts, in power just becouse some ancient forfather of theirs was a dragon, or something.
And mages are Intelligent, and Hardy. A sorceror can be anything from a pampered Nobleman to a dirty little Kobolt. You don't see many Kobolt Mages, no do you? Mages need Dicipline, consentration, and STRENGHT! Not nessecarily physical strenght, but Mental strenght. I, atleast, think that Mages should have much better will (for one) saves than Sorcerors do. Sorcerors are kinda overpowered, when you think of it. |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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MuadDib
Senior Scribe
South Africa
442 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 06:53:41
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Ok, all my comments on this discussion are based on BGII experiences, and therefore arguments like striving to be something and roleplaying i wont get into cause i have no authority there.
Mages are certainly more versatile because they can relearn and adapt their magic to suit any situation. If you are soloing through a game like BGII, chances are it would be easier with the Mage as you can adapt your spells for each situation, resting after each one to make sure you are ready for the next one.
The sorcerer has much more staying power though, although his spell pool is smaller. This is a boon and a bane though, because you will never be able to access some spells, but it means you take resposibility for your spells right from the get go. It also means you master the few spells you do have, and providing your level is sufficient it means you can choose spells in creation that the mage would have to buy and/or find.
In terms of power. The mage certainly has the advantage mid level in the game. At the beginning the sorcerer is more powerful by far being able to simply throw out more spells than the mage. The mage does not have 5 magic missiles etc. Middle of the game the sorcerer starts to feel his lack of diversity whereas the mage comes into his own. After level 18/19 though, the sorcerer really shines. The reason is this. In BGII ToB, when mages and sorcerers access lvl 9 abilities, the mage and sorcerer when maxed out each have the 'choice' of all the lvl 9 abilities. The difference is, the Mage must choose i think 3 or 4 of his major lvl 9 spells, and can cast easch one once. The sorcerer can at any time access ALL of his lvl 9 spells and cast each one 6 times. That in effect gives him 6 spells slots in lvl 9 as opposed to the mage's 4, and he can choose any of the spells once more, opposed to the maximum number of 4 which the mage has. Therefore you can see, that at max levels (around lvl 39) the sorcerer is simply unbeatable, being able to cast alacrity, time stop and then still 4 other lvl 9 spells, without blinking.
The other thing that needs to be noted is the statistical implications of the mage and sorcerer. A mage needs a high intelligence, at least 18 or he will fail to learn spells and will have ridiculous spell numbers. This leaves less points to distribute elsewhere which you will feel if you duel to fighter. The sorcerer does not need intelligence at all, and none of his stats matter when it comes to 'number' of spells he learns, that is purely lvl based. His Charisma effects the power, therefore unless you are casting wish spells which are directly dependant on wisdom and intelligence, the sorcerer can statistically be a stronger character having generally more XP, higher defence and being able to hit harder.
Therefore as always, there are choices. There are many that feel that mages are purists and being a mage is more about a way of life than simply casting magic, whereas sorcerers are these innate young upstarts. Whatever, I dont know. But from the argument I have given, I find it hard to believe or argue that a lvl 39 mage and a lvl 39 sorcerer, equipped with the same equipement in a battle could end in anything but the mage being slaughtered. (think 4 spell shields and 2 spell strikes, there is no defence to beat that) |
MuadDib - Candlekeep Inn Barhand |
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Feawen
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 12:18:02
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From what youve said it sounds like the sorcerer can be a kickass character.....
ill have to use one in BG2 lol, but im kinda pre-occupied with my current character (check sig)
The last time i finished it, i had a fighter/mage - i just used the magic to enhance his fighting capability.. |
-=Current Character: Iyanden, Chaotic Neutral Elven Swashbuckler=- |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 12:40:55
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What kind of Fighter/Mage?
(There are many types.... like
- The FIGHTER/Mage (Dual classed, with high-level fighter. Probably smart to get the mage up to around elvel 10 - 11, as the require little XP in their early levels),
- The Fighter/MAGE (The one I've described playing with 3 - 4 times now. Level 8 Fighter - then mage. Dual, ofcourse.) and
- The Fighter/Mage Multi-classed.
Can Sorcerors be Multi/Dual Classed? (Haven't tried it out.)
quote:
I find it hard to believe or argue that a lvl 39 mage and a lvl 39 sorcerer, equipped with the same equipement in a battle could end in anything but the mage being slaughtered
Level 31 is the maximum level for both of them, though.
But I guess your right. The Sorceror kicks the Mage's @$$ any day. Fewer spells, perhaps, but they have them all ready to be used at any time.
That's why I think that Sorc's should either have som kind of penalty to their sawing throws (Will in particular) as they are way overpowered, compared to the mages. Either that or the Mages should get soem kind of extra feats that gives them a way of actually using their intellect. (Like brewing poitons, creating spells, [Helping with?] forging weaponry/armour, etc.)
The way it is now Sorc are way superior. |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Mephostophilis
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 14:32:00
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The classes of Mage and Socerer are meant to indicate two different facets of magic. The sorcerer represents an intuitive grasp of the art. He grasps and forces an innate power to do his bidding through force of personality alone. A wizard, however, does not have this intuitive grasp or innate ability. Hence, a Wizard has to work and study for everything he gets. He must struggle to comprehend and manipulate an alien force, and as such must use abstracts, or 'spells' to capture and tame it. As such, the power of a wizard is harder won, but through the struggle comes a greater understanding of the art. A wizard is not the raw powerhouse that a sorcerer is, but due to theimmense training he undergoes, has a greater bredth of abilities, and is generally more subtle in his manipulations.
As for the computer games, I would say that each class has its benefits. Despite the fact that the Wizard has to memorise spells, I would say that e is superior at the earlier levels of the game, due to the fact that he gains access to spells at a faster rate. For example, a sorcerer has to wait until level 4 to gain second level spells which a Wizard can cast atlevel 3. |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 14:47:33
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Who cares about the Early levels (1 - 10)??? In computer games, that is.
The Mages *should* be more powerful than the sorcerors are. They DESERVE IT! If nothing else they should be able to utilize their knowlege of the arcane arts to create spells of their own.
Sorcerors are nothing but... but... spoiled brats, by my opinion. They have done nothing to deserve what they have gotten and, by rights, they shouldn't even have it!
A Demon is a powerful, and respected creature, simply becouse it is a demon. It was born into power, and for not other reason, is powerful. A *mage* on the other hand is nothing but a puny, patheti, little, humanoid, with hardly any defencive capabilities at all that, through sheer STRENGHT OF CHARACTER has gained power over demons, and the dead alike! Humans, very weak creatures in reality, can aspire to become more powerful than even many DEMONS ever become, if they have what it takes. THAT is why mages should be respected.
The sorcerors are not worthy of the powers that they posess. Sorcerors are like little kids that have stumbled over a big gun. They are pwoerful, but they do not deserve it, respect, or anything else that comes with it. They may be dangerous, but they are not, nessecarily (or even often), intelligent, nor crafty.
Even FIGHTERS deserve more respect than Sorcerors do. Sorcerors are the black sheeps in the family of magic users.
THAT is why mages are so much cooler than sorcerors. If you have managed to aspire to the title of Mage you are indeed worthy of the power that you have aquired. You haven't just stumbled across it. (Akar Kessell, anyone?)
That's what sorcerors are to me. Nothing but a bunch of "Akar Kessell"'s with powers they don't deserve. And yet they are more powerful than Mages. That's just... unfair... |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Feawen
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 15:29:03
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Sorceror's cant be multi classed.....i tried doing it yesterday and it didnt work
i dont think they can be dual classed either....
that character was an Evlish Fighter Mage - multiclass
he was pretty good, because it made my party more versatile...
i vote for the True Neutral Elvish Fighter/Mage (my character lol)...damn sorcerer's with their "innate grasp of magic".
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-=Current Character: Iyanden, Chaotic Neutral Elven Swashbuckler=- |
Edited by - Feawen on 19 Jan 2004 15:31:24 |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 16:14:17
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| Yeah! |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe
Norway
603 Posts |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 16:33:20
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Wild Mages are cool.
But I don't actualyl have ToB installed right now... shame on me... and It's been a while... I can't remember... ...  |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe
Norway
603 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 16:43:04
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Okey, they do not have sorceror in BG anyway so it might be the same. But do not think so.
They got a cool ability, its 15% chance of their magig to turn into a massive explosion of pure magic, tought I guess thqat it can be pretty irritating. |
Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 17:53:04
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quote:
they do not have sorceror in BG anyway
Yes they do. |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe
Norway
603 Posts |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 20:08:34
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| Well, I could lean either way in this discussion, just keep going, I might make up my mind...... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe
Norway
603 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 20:21:37
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If a normall shall ,we say human , would become a powerfull mage he would have to study hard and long and he would have to show respect too his theatcers and so on.
While a sorceror is completly free to do as he wont. And a sorceror is more practical to fight with as he can choice to cast four magic missiles or three MM and one firehand, while a mage has to remember all the spells he wont to cast before teh fight.
Made up your mind? |
Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 20:36:46
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| I'm not sure, the last character I had was a sorcerer, level 30 something in BG 2, and i beat the entire game with him... I am leaning towards sorcerers...... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:00:03
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There can't really be any arguing that the Sorcerors are better than the mages, unless the mages are preapared. A Mage that knows what hes goign to can prepare his spells likewise, and thus have more spells than the sorceror. But in a position when you do not know what you are going to the Sorceror is the undesputed champion.
But... I do belive that a Mage would kick a Sorceror's @$$ if he was prepared for an all-out magic-fight. |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:13:53
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| I don't believe that however, so we're back to stage one..... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:26:24
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| If I could now only get by fu*ked-up ToB CD to install ToB for me again we could have a Multi-player Duel :P |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe
Norway
603 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:29:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Forgotten One
There can't really be any arguing that the Sorcerors are better than the mages, unless the mages are preapared. A Mage that knows what hes goign to can prepare his spells likewise, and thus have more spells than the sorceror. But in a position when you do not know what you are going to the Sorceror is the undesputed champion.
But... I do belive that a Mage would kick a Sorceror's @$$ if he was prepared for an all-out magic-fight.
I wouldent really think so, and anyway sorcerers can be a spawn of somthing, like a..... I dont know. How do dragon sound?
Anyway, what is the coolest?
Sitting in a libary reading or being out killing things? |
Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest
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Edited by - Ezindir the dark on 19 Jan 2004 21:30:25 |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:32:37
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As odd as this may sound... the library-part seems kinda coold to me, somehow. As long as I'm allowed to do other things as well. Like create me own spells, and go on the occational Adventure I'd be quite pleased with that. Just running around killing things seems kinda... dull  |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:32:53
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| I believe the answer is self-evident, Ezindir |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:34:08
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You two are not REAL mages! Real mages don't run around and kill, simply for the sake of it! They have a purpose behind every action, and every plot.
Now *that*'s what I aspire to become. |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:36:48
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| I'm not a mage, I'm a shadowdancer, and your aspirations are becoming kind of evident..... I can read you like a tome! |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:38:57
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Be silent, ignorant one! You have no idea what I might be plotting... well... not that I'm plotting all that much right now, but... you don't know that I don't know that you don't know that I'm plotting that.... err.... erhm.... just...
*wanders off, muttering to himself* |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 21:56:04
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| Whilst you are *cough cough* ploting, mayhaps you will think of a deity to worship...... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe
Norway
603 Posts |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 22:00:47
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Wow, a fellow shadowdancer, and here I thought that this brother of the shadows stood alone..... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Sorceror Vs. Mage
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