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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Oct 2012 : 10:48:20
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Yea, I may be sounding overly harsh. The books have some bright moments and some good qualities(Gauntlgrym, not so much, but even it has a couple of scenes that almost make it worth it).
I'm just saying the Shadovar/Thay conflict itself isn't particularly interesting as presented. And I'm honestly not faulting Bob for that- they aren't the focus of his books. Drizzt is, and Drizzt is just caught in the middle...no, he isn't even caught in the middle of those two. He's off on the sidelines of the conflict. So we see only brief glimpses of it.
I don't know if he was asked to include these factions by WotC with the upcoming Neverwinter MMO in mind, or if he was just asked to include some villainous factions and these were the ones he picked. But whatever the case, if the only reason you're interested in these books is because of the Shade/Thay conflict, then I wouldn't recommend them. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2012 : 13:51:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
...if the only reason you're interested in these books is because of the Shade/Thay conflict, then I wouldn't recommend them.
It is the ONLY reason, indeed.
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Wow, that sounds a little judgmental for not having looked at the book. Don't make a snap judgment based on one bad review.
My comment was about the Shade/Thay conflict in the book, and not the book itself.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2012 : 18:25:40
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Noted.
I didn't write the shade parts of the NWCS, but Ari did, and I feel obligated to speak up for him. The Shade vs Thay presented in the book is meant to be the tip of a possible iceberg, and I personally think a flying castle firing down at the Thayan outpost is pretty cool. As I said, there should have been a ddi article to expand on it, but as it stands, it's an option for DMs to use or ignore.
The 4e NW has a little bad guy overload, it's true, but the concept is to allow tons of gaming options and ins for a DM. It's a toolbox with a lot of pouches--I would have liked those pouches to be filled more.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2012 : 20:35:36
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Well, to clarify I am merely talking about the Shade/Thay conflict as presented in RAS' Neverwinter Saga.
I haven't really given the NWCS more than a cursory read, mainly focusing on character themes.(I'm still disappointed they didn't include anything relating to Many-Arrows half/orcs in there.)
I probably should give it a full read some time, I've heard nothing but good things.
If nothing else, since I am getting my "Many-Arrows manifest destiny" story back on tract and having the orc kingdom expand to take Luskan in my home game, it'll be good to know what powers in the region they'll be antagonizing. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 05:08:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I haven't really given the NWCS more than a cursory read, mainly focusing on character themes.(I'm still disappointed they didn't include anything relating to Many-Arrows half/orcs in there.)
Maybe not in the themes section, but I did write up a part about the Many-Arrows orcs in the River District and Factions.
quote:
If nothing else, since I am getting my "Many-Arrows manifest destiny" story back on tract and having the orc kingdom expand to take Luskan in my home game, it'll be good to know what powers in the region they'll be antagonizing.
That's a cool plot idea. Anything you want to know about Luskan, let me know. I wrote a novel set there.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 09:56:59
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| I'd actually like any 4e information on Mirabar you can point me to. It's the first stop on the annexation train and the only mention of it I can find in the 4e CS is that it's included on the map. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 14:51:31
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I'll see if I can dig up a reference. Off the top of my head, it seems like Mirabar was left generally untouched for 4e, but there might be some info out there.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 16:48:35
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| There was a contingent of dwarves from the Axe ("Shield"?) of Mirabar who responded to the Summoning at the end of Gauntlgrym. I believe Torgar Hammerstriker was still in charge. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 30 Oct 2012 20:05:16 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 22:42:51
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Is there any 'special' reason that Clariburnus was chosen to deal with the crisis in Surcross? I was half-expecting it to be Lamorak. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 03:30:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Is there any 'special' reason that Clariburnus was chosen to deal with the crisis in Surcross? I was half-expecting it to be Lamorak.
Lamorak is significantly more powerful magically than Clairburnus and is probably of more use elsewhere(most powerful wizard behind the most high) not to mention being the leader of the determinist guild, choosing who to send where, while Clairburnus is more of a mixed utility character with fighter and rogue skills on top of sorcery since he is he youngest captain in Shade. He is also the youngest remaining son and eager to prove himself. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 12:26:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Is there any 'special' reason that Clariburnus was chosen to deal with the crisis in Surcross? I was half-expecting it to be Lamorak.
Lamorak is significantly more powerful magically than Clairburnus and is probably of more use elsewhere(most powerful wizard behind the most high) not to mention being the leader of the determinist guild, choosing who to send where, while Clairburnus is more of a mixed utility character with fighter and rogue skills on top of sorcery since he is he youngest captain in Shade. He is also the youngest remaining son and eager to prove himself.
I think after all the Shadovar have been through including their long exile on the plane of Shadow( not exactly the most congenial of places) all of them are battle proven veterans but still I am not disagreeing with you as always higher levels to climb to in society. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 14:27:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Is there any 'special' reason that Clariburnus was chosen to deal with the crisis in Surcross? I was half-expecting it to be Lamorak.
I would have liked to see more explanation in the book, but I think this is one of those "left to DMs, if relevant" issues. A sourcebook can't capture everything, so one has to pick and choose.
I suspect Clariburnus either took the Neverwinter assignment as a way to prove himself (as previously suggested) or got stuck with it after he made some miscalculation or other embarassing error that cost him face with the Most High.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 15:09:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Is there any 'special' reason that Clariburnus was chosen to deal with the crisis in Surcross? I was half-expecting it to be Lamorak.
I would have liked to see more explanation in the book, but I think this is one of those "left to DMs, if relevant" issues. A sourcebook can't capture everything, so one has to pick and choose.
I suspect Clariburnus either took the Neverwinter assignment as a way to prove himself (as previously suggested) or got stuck with it after he made some miscalculation or other embarassing error that cost him face with the Most High.
Cheers
That's how I was thinking as well :)
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 15:12:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I'll go for the Zhentarim hands down.
One of the greatest injustices done to that organization is make them look like fools. Ed's own recent work points out that they should never have been treated like that.
I haven't read Ed Greenwood's recent realmslore book. But in the novels he sure does make the Zhentarim look like fools. I'd say that other authors make the Zhentarim look more competent than him. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 16:11:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I'll go for the Zhentarim hands down.
One of the greatest injustices done to that organization is make them look like fools. Ed's own recent work points out that they should never have been treated like that.
I haven't read Ed Greenwood's recent realmslore book. But in the novels he sure does make the Zhentarim look like fools. I'd say that other authors make the Zhentarim look more competent than him.
Keep in mind that for many years, Ed was laboring under the editorial mandate that bad guys couldn't ever win, even if it was a temporary win in the second book of a trilogy. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 16:18:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Keep in mind that for many years, Ed was laboring under the editorial mandate that bad guys couldn't ever win, even if it was a temporary win in the second book of a trilogy.
A mindset that definatly needs to be thrown out of the window, driven over, set on fire and the remains dissolved in acid, imo.  |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 17:08:33
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I think it would be a cool story if Rivalen (or one of the other princes) got Clariburnus stuck with the Neverwinter assignment in order to remove him as an obstacle to his plans. If he's a thousand miles away, he can't interfere with Rivalen's plans, which might involve moving against the Most High.
I have long speculated that the reason the Shades aren't more successful in taking over the Realms is that they are torn apart by internal strife and distrust that could easily boil over into open conflict.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Keep in mind that for many years, Ed was laboring under the editorial mandate that bad guys couldn't ever win, even if it was a temporary win in the second book of a trilogy.
A mindset that definatly needs to be thrown out of the window, driven over, set on fire and the remains dissolved in acid, imo.
Heh, you really need to read my books then.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 19:38:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Keep in mind that for many years, Ed was laboring under the editorial mandate that bad guys couldn't ever win, even if it was a temporary win in the second book of a trilogy.
A mindset that definatly needs to be thrown out of the window, driven over, set on fire and the remains dissolved in acid, imo.
Your reply is a bit ambiguous... I can't tell, are you for or against this long-ago policy?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 20:31:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I think it would be a cool story if Rivalen (or one of the other princes) got Clariburnus stuck with the Neverwinter assignment in order to remove him as an obstacle to his plans. If he's a thousand miles away, he can't interfere with Rivalen's plans, which might involve moving against the Most High.
I have long speculated that the reason the Shades aren't more successful in taking over the Realms is that they are torn apart by internal strife and distrust that could easily boil over into open conflict.
If there's any obstacle Rivalen has to remove, it's his father's personal guard, Aglarel. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 23:13:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Your reply is a bit ambiguous... I can't tell, are you for or against this long-ago policy?
I am all for showing the world that evil is the better good |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 23:48:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I think it would be a cool story if Rivalen (or one of the other princes) got Clariburnus stuck with the Neverwinter assignment in order to remove him as an obstacle to his plans. If he's a thousand miles away, he can't interfere with Rivalen's plans, which might involve moving against the Most High.
I have long speculated that the reason the Shades aren't more successful in taking over the Realms is that they are torn apart by internal strife and distrust that could easily boil over into open conflict.
I like the idea. Clairburnus chaffed on Rivalen a bit in ROTA book 2.
I am still unsure on how much Rivalen has changed in power by absorbing a third of a rank 0 divinity. The books lead me to believe they gained a ridiculous amount of power, but I did not think a 0 level divinity would bolster a character that much. Maybe the written stats on Kesson Rel/Volumvax were meant for before he regained the rest of the Essence the Dragon had, and it shot him to a level 1 divinity, making the split make a bit more sense.
I would still never bet against Telamont. I am sure he knew how powerful Rivalen would become, but he allowed it to happen anyways. that speaks of confidence to me.
Shar herself probably wants the shades to stay together and continue advancing their empire since it furthers her worship and increases her pool of followers.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I think it would be a cool story if Rivalen (or one of the other princes) got Clariburnus stuck with the Neverwinter assignment in order to remove him as an obstacle to his plans. If he's a thousand miles away, he can't interfere with Rivalen's plans, which might involve moving against the Most High.
I have long speculated that the reason the Shades aren't more successful in taking over the Realms is that they are torn apart by internal strife and distrust that could easily boil over into open conflict.
If there's any obstacle Rivalen has to remove, it's his father's personal guard, Aglarel.
I am not sure if he could stop Rivalen even with help. Rivalen was already the 2nd most powerful in the enclave before his level 0 divinity(Lamorak was close)
I know Aglarel's immediate position is bodyguard of the Most high and that he is very loyal. He is also a 6th level Cleric of Shar and who is to say what his loyalty would be if she personally told him to let them decide matters themselves.
A lot of the princes would be unknowns in such a conflict. Yder is loyal To Rivalen first and foremost. Brennus as we know is dead against him.
Hadrhune is, well, dead period so doesn't matter haha |
Edited by - Firestorm on 31 Oct 2012 23:50:46 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 23:55:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I think it would be a cool story if Rivalen (or one of the other princes) got Clariburnus stuck with the Neverwinter assignment in order to remove him as an obstacle to his plans. If he's a thousand miles away, he can't interfere with Rivalen's plans, which might involve moving against the Most High.
If there's any obstacle Rivalen has to remove, it's his father's personal guard, Aglarel.
Perhaps, though who knows what his plans might be?
I also don't think a personal confrontation is Rivalrn's style. Taking down an enemy like the Most High involves eroding his power base and compromising the loyalties of his followers. Maybe getting rid of Clariburnus is part of that effort.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2012 : 02:00:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I think it would be a cool story if Rivalen (or one of the other princes) got Clariburnus stuck with the Neverwinter assignment in order to remove him as an obstacle to his plans. If he's a thousand miles away, he can't interfere with Rivalen's plans, which might involve moving against the Most High.
If there's any obstacle Rivalen has to remove, it's his father's personal guard, Aglarel.
Perhaps, though who knows what his plans might be?
I also don't think a personal confrontation is Rivalrn's style. Taking down an enemy like the Most High involves eroding his power base and compromising the loyalties of his followers. Maybe getting rid of Clariburnus is part of that effort.
Cheers
True. Rivalen's current mindset is unknown. He was terrified of his father before attaining quasi divine status and he has always been the spiritual leader of Shade. Since what he has become, he may be close to a match for the most high(Although likely reluctant on a spell battle with him), thus, not allowing fear to keep him from speaking his mind on what direction he thinks the empire should take.
Could be causing some standstill at council.
I would be interested in finding out where some of the princes stand.
Yder is Rivalen's right hand. The most high's right hand Hadhrune has been killed. Likely there are some other very powerful Archmages we do not have on paper on both sides.
Brennus hates Rivalen for personal reasons. Mattick and Vattick the illusionists of the bunch idolize Brennus(And formerly Hadhrune) for some reason and back them in everything.
Brennus is almost certainly the guy who found the lost enclave if that factors in at all.
Clairburnus has chaffed with Rivalen in the past. Escanor defended Rivalen, but is dead as far as we know. Neither he nor Melagaunt were resurrected(But might have been according to the FRCG 4th edition).
Lamorak obviously has the most high's trust since he appointed him to the important position of head of the determinist guild and he is for all intents and purposes the 3rd most powerful individual in Shade. But he is known to stay relatively neutral in the politics.
As I said about Aglarel earlier. He could be a wild card.
Dethud is apparently very respected and a peacemaker, and the second most influential.
Maybe the Most high found Aumvor the undying, but let him stay hidden and has some hidden deals with him :p NDA
And we still do not know what happened to Ioulaum's apprentice, who they captured years prior.
Shoon VII, demilich in the body of Zallanora resents the idea that Szass Tam is considered the world's preeminent Necromancer when he is and is planning on moving in to help Shade! That or they join forces to become the necromancer due of doom against Shade!
It helps us as gamers and DM's if we get NDA's on these since we can fiddle with it and make our own stories based on what we think may be going on :)
Going over some old sourcebooks is fun. Who would have thought that the NPC "shadow" who got involved with Ioulaum's bard Alashar Crywinds, and were married by Karsus in secret after faking their own deaths and moving their entire enclave to the demiplane of shadow "forever" would get so much action later on. It was such a minor footnote in empire of magic. So much creativity :) |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2012 : 10:11:57
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| Shoon VII was always a tyrant so i rather see him siding with Bane than Shar for the fact that the Shades would contest for his new "empire" while Bane would let him have it in return for him proclaiming that the faith of the Black Hand is the only one. I do not think Szass Tam is even aware of Shoon VII since from what we know, the demilich eradicates all evidence of his existance when he acts on something. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 02:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
Shoon VII was always a tyrant so i rather see him siding with Bane than Shar for the fact that the Shades would contest for his new "empire" while Bane would let him have it in return for him proclaiming that the faith of the Black Hand is the only one. I do not think Szass Tam is even aware of Shoon VII since from what we know, the demilich eradicates all evidence of his existance when he acts on something.
lol. Maybe. Bane might enlist him to keep Tam from reneging on his deal :p
Shoon VII is the highest level necromancer I have seen thus far in the realms |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 08:28:07
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| Szass Tam breaking his deal with a god who is known to not be kind to those who cross him is a very bad idea if you ask me, two words: divine wrath |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 10:59:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
Szass Tam breaking his deal with a god who is known to not be kind to those who cross him is a very bad idea if you ask me, two words: divine wrath
Well, were he to succeed in his unmaking, everything, including the gods supposedly, would be done. Tam would then become overgod and be able to oversee his own universe creation.
Not much bane can do if he reneges like that. lol
What I meant was, Bane might have wind of his plan now, and could dispatch agents to, shall we say, throw a monkeywrench unto the unmaking.
One thing I was curious to is why Szass Tam is so friendly with a cult of Asmodeus. Since part of Bane's deal is only he can be worshiped in Thay.... |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 13:04:41
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| Szass Tam may see the devil cultists as tools to further his plans, after all the Shade are a bother to them aswell and a common enemy makes common ground for convenient alliances, even if they may be just temporary. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 20:46:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I think it would be a cool story if Rivalen (or one of the other princes) got Clariburnus stuck with the Neverwinter assignment in order to remove him as an obstacle to his plans. If he's a thousand miles away, he can't interfere with Rivalen's plans, which might involve moving against the Most High.
If there's any obstacle Rivalen has to remove, it's his father's personal guard, Aglarel.
Perhaps, though who knows what his plans might be?
I also don't think a personal confrontation is Rivalrn's style. Taking down an enemy like the Most High involves eroding his power base and compromising the loyalties of his followers. Maybe getting rid of Clariburnus is part of that effort.
In Shadowrealm, upon learning of his brother's matricide, Brennus once told his father that if he let Rivalen get a share of Mask's divine essence, it would be beyond his ability to 'punish' him. Telamont didn't contradict him, and just said that Rivalen's choice to embrace the Void is punishment enough. This may indicate that Rivalen surpassed his father. Though I doubt it. It would be foolish of Telamont to allow it. He could have simply absorbed the essence himself, or used a shadow vessel to contain it for future use. I suppose Rivelan knows it. Otherwise, he'd be overconfindent with his new-found power and challenge The Most High. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 21:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Yder is Rivalen's right hand.
Which would likely change as soon as word got out of Rivalen's matricide. By then, no brother would ever side with Rivalen, no matter the reason (Shar's will).
Brennus is dead set to kill Rivalen. Upon glimpsing that excerpt from Godborn, it's reasonable to guess that, knowing his brother is beyond his power now, he'd seek help from his other brothers, even if doing so means disobeying The Most High. He's loyal to his father, but he was and still is loyal to his beloved mother first. Emotions often cloud reason, so it'd be understandble if, in the end, he'd rather disobey his father than leave Rivalen unpunished.
Or, out of spite for Telamont (who once chained him), Mephistopheles would just 'appear' before any of the other Tanthuls and reveal the 'secret.' |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Clariburnus Tanthul
