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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 15:09:18
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Details about the Sundering RSE and how they "fix" the Spellplague will determine my continued interest in the Realms. I'm trying to remain positive, but the double whammy of the butchering of the Realms by 4E/4E rules and the magnificent alternative of Pathfinder RPG/Golarion is making it difficult (or easier, depending on your point of view).
Having everything go through Ed first is just awesome (and long overdue, perhaps too long).
Two years huh? Not sure if I'll wait that long, but yes, if it's time spent not repeating the enormous mistake that is 4E (Realms and core), then I'm all for it. Note that "enormous mistake that is 4E" is just my personal opinion on it |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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MalariaMoon
Learned Scribe
324 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 15:22:42
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Sounds good to me. No stagnation, moving forward. Much as I miss the old characters and stories and hope some of their tales will be resolved by novels, I'm more excited about the new stories to be written and the new characters to fall in love with.
Sounds like they've got the right people on board to make it come alive. Pleased that Ed is at the helm, or at least standing close enough to ensure it gets turned in the right direction.
The Realms ain't dead for me. It might have had a few years feeling under the weather, but hopefully it'll start running again.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 15:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Well, there was one definitive thing that we learned from the keynote, and that serious bums me out: no Elaine Cunningham!
No women at all, actually, which is sadly par for the course in RPG's, but when you've got such a great author who's been part of the setting longer than practically anyone, why not bring her in?
I'm afraid my first response to seeing Troy Denning's name was "Oh no, not him again," quickly followed by, "Why no EC?"
Now, did they say Elaine was not going to have any part at all in the relaunched Realms -- as in, no novels or anything? The reason I ask is because she's always been novelist, never a designer. Not having her on the design team doesn't bother me, so long as there's a possibility of more fiction from her.
I'm not a huge fan of Troy Denning, and in fact some of my least favorite Realms novels have been from him. That said, I've also rather enjoyed some of his novels, so putting his name on a book isn't an automatic deal-breaker. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 15:31:18
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| I guess Ed Greenwood Forgotten Realms is to tide us over... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 15:32:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Elsenrail
2 years more of playtesting? Frankly, I'm only interested in the novels and the lorebooks for 5th ed FR, but 2 years time is a bit excessive... I was pretty sure that the 5th edition will be released next summer.
I don't care how long the ruleset takes; I'm simply not interested in that. I do hope, however, that we can get some edition-neutral Realmslore a lot sooner than 2 years. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 15:59:39
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Wooly: There wasn't anything saying EC wouldn't have any role at all, ever, but she's not part of the team of six who are handling this "Sundering." And at least the teaser video they showed had the six novelists sitting around and working to map out how things were going to go and what was going to happen (and happen next). I'm sure there are other designers involved as well, but the focus of the presentation was that the authors were mapping out where these novels would go, and the setting with them.
Nothing to say that EC won't show up at some point, but she doesn't seem to be involved at the moment.
Of course, we could always wander over to her thread and ask her.  |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 16:14:20
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My biggest surprise was that Cordell isn't there either. Also, a bit surprised that de Bie didn't get one. Not surprised, but Schend was also not there.
I wonder how Athans (and possibly Baker) departure played in that scenario... |
Edited by - Skeptic on 17 Aug 2012 16:23:53 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 16:24:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Sourcebooks and adventures - edition and time neutral
Oh.. Oh my! This could very well get the lorebooks that some of us have wanted for a very long time indeed!
I really wish I had the opportunity to be at GenCon this year. This actually makes me excited about 5e, which is a departure from the prior edition.
If 5e can be as fun as FantasyCraft and Pathfinder, I might get back into Realms products again. Heck, even the novel line Ed talked about in the video (thanks Jeremy for placing it in the scroll!) has piqued my interest, which is not typical for me.
Also, I forgot to answer what I missed most about the setting:
I'm not so much about the people, but the region itself where the Tashalar, Halruaa, and even Lantan were would be nice to have back.
The people that fill those areas then become massively important.  |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
Edited by - Darkmeer on 17 Aug 2012 16:25:15 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 16:26:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Wooly: There wasn't anything saying EC wouldn't have any role at all, ever, but she's not part of the team of six who are handling this "Sundering." And at least the teaser video they showed had the six novelists sitting around and working to map out how things were going to go and what was going to happen (and happen next). I'm sure there are other designers involved as well, but the focus of the presentation was that the authors were mapping out where these novels would go, and the setting with them.
Nothing to say that EC won't show up at some point, but she doesn't seem to be involved at the moment.
Of course, we could always wander over to her thread and ask her.
Well, Elaine's never been the RSE type... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 16:40:19
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Sourcebooks and adventures - edition and time neutral
. . .
Also maybe, most likely authors will be able to write a novel set in any time.
Both excellent news.quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Lore support for multiple eras is on the table.
Questions?
What can we do to help ensure it's an actuality?quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The vintage car market is a small one. And the repair and maintenance costs are murder.
The 'new' car will actually be an old car, with several previous owners, some of them poor drivers, that's been in a few wrecks, now carefully patched up and lovingly restored; while the 'old' car is unmarred. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 16:41:47
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One of the things that has annoyed me ever since the announcement of 5e and the call for player feedback is that they've now proven that they're capable of doing logical things.  All the positive things that are happening now should have happened as they were gearing up for the transition to 2e. When times are good, of course we care what fans think (while ignoring what fans say and doing whatever we want). When sales start dropping, oh my, let's get some feedback. Probably unfair, and there were definitely individual designers all along who've cared about fan opinions, but perception is at least 9/10 of reality and that's what the corporate policy looks like from the outside.
Flipside: It occurred to me at some point while I was watching the presentation that they're learning as they go, too, just like I am. I was 6 or 7 when a neighbor came over and showed my parents the old purple D&D box. He was a cool guy, and talked them into disregarding the "ages 10 and up" on the box, and I seem to remember he shot me a wink as my parents agreed to let me roll up a character. Fast-forward a few years: I played some 1e AD&D with friends in 6th grade. A few more years: 2e. Then 3e. Then more 3e, and now waiting for 5e. Each incarnation of the game (ignoring the setting for a second) has been completely different. 1e had lots of tables, and lots of nasty ways in which to get yourself killed. 2e had, if possible, even more tables, but a lot of the "rough edges" were smoothed, or so it seemed to me. 3e was a new vision, and one which took quite a while to get used to, imo. 4e was something completely different again, and maybe made things more complicated... fighters have magic powers now... wtf? And 5e is another complete re-envisioning of the game. Different, but the same sort of thing that happens to meat popsicles such as myself, going through elementary and jr high, then high school, then college. At each stage, my "eyes" had to adjust to seeing the world completely differently. The Powers That Be at TSR/WotC were not children when they started (kids would have made better decisions... zing!  ) but in some ways D&D has always been a child because nobody had done this before... there's no blueprint to follow, so experimentation is the only way to learn anything.
It might also be worth pointing out that American (and perhaps international) culture is quite different now than it was in the early/mid 70s. Making consistent progress, or even defining progress, is kinda hard when cultural viewpoints and attention span and discretionary income and a wide array of other things that affect the success of the company/hobby are changing every few years.
As hinted by others, I hope those who are turned off more than on by the news will still give the 5e campaign guide a glance or three (as I did with 4e) even if they have to put it down in disgust (as I did).
And as The Red Walker points out, Mike repeated a couple of times that they're trying to make sure they do this right. A long playtest period is long, but it hopefully makes sure that 4e doesn't happen again... although that's kinda apples and oranges for me personally because my objections to 4e were almost entirely in the changes made to the setting.
I do very much wish that this current process had preceded each new edition of the game. But through a combination of factors (I've tried to tactfully avoid at least one big one) it wasn't done until now. At least we're benefitting from it now, so that can be a cool thing.
Last last note... I for one really liked that they're putting in "all three" concepts of magic use. 5e should have a Vancian spellcaster that we're all familiar with, and also a spellcaster who uses spell points, and also a spellcaster like the 4e version with daily/encounter/at-will powers. Fans fight over which one is best? ZOMG let's give them all three! It's this sort of brilliance that (while I'll be sarcastic as hell about it taking so long to find) give me hope for the future. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 16:59:50
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When they release the old material online, I wonder how in depth the content will be?
Specifically, will they include all the rare Realms collectibles and odds and ends from GenCon? For example, wasn’t Azoun IV’s obituary or some such handed out at a prior GenCon? If yes I wonder if it will be included in the online content.
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
while the 'old' car is pristine.
It might’ve been pristine, but that old car needed a lot of repairs and was lucky to hit 50 mph going downhill with a tailwind.
I expect this new car will positively fly.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 17 Aug 2012 17:00:34 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 17:00:10
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| All design going through Ed is a really good thing. With that being the case, I'm sure we'll have the Realms back to what we expect them to be in short order. I'm curious as to what AO is going to do or where he has been. Probably something similar to going on vacation and stepping back in the house and realizing your kids trashed it while you were away. ;) |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 17:10:19
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My thanks to Red Walker & Eric for providing information from the Candlekeep Seminar. If you two ever make it to the dallas/Ft Worth area I'll buy you a beer or a cowboy hat.
My only question, will someone make a transcript?
Also, Godborn appears to be the first novel in the Sundering storyline and WotC hasn’t pushed back its release date…yet.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 17:18:24
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Hmmm...I may care less about the 5e rule set but I am concerned about the future of the Realms. I am hearing some very good things so far, but I must know what they mean about the lore being edition neutral. The Old Empires and Lantan are pre-4e so how will that work? Or is it true that the world will return back to the way it's before the Spellplague? I take it try will stop covering Returned Abeir and Tymanther?
I feel teased, I hope they can explain more in depth on exactly why in the Hells is going on? |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 17:18:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
My thanks to Red Walker & Eric for providing information from the Candlekeep Seminar. If you two ever make it to the dallas/Ft Worth area I'll buy you a beer or a cowboy hat.
My only question, will someone make a transcript?
Also, Godborn appears to be the first novel in the Sundering storyline and WotC hasn’t pushed back its release date…yet.
Bob Salvatore Will lead with the first novel. Why? Well Ed said because when the Sundering was brought up to Bob...he said something to the effect of ....Great..I'm writing the first book and here's who's in it and here is where it is taking place. Basically Bob's work is always character driven and if that the new direction, who better to got first?
Then Ed is last, batting clean up as he said, so he can make everything the first five books did work.
Paul was there and confirmed The Godborn will be moved back to fall 2013,
Also I believe Ed stated Bob was going to write two realms products per year....did I hear that right? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 19 Aug 2012 02:29:45 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 17:21:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Elsenrail
2 years more of playtesting? Frankly, I'm only interested in the novels and the lorebooks for 5th ed FR, but 2 years time is a bit excessive... I was pretty sure that the 5th edition will be released next summer.
I don't care how long the ruleset takes; I'm simply not interested in that. I do hope, however, that we can get some edition-neutral Realmslore a lot sooner than 2 years.
Oh yes, they said that stuff would start coming before the rules.
In fact the just released Menzoberrazan sourcebook is fairly edition neutral and is all or just about 100% all fluff. I'm sure Brian can explain that much better than I though. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 17:23:11
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| Ans the way I understood it was all future sourcebooks will have minimal to zero "crunch" and be as close to if not 100% "fluff" as possible |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 17:35:24
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I love the idea of time neutral sourcebooks; I just don't see how it's possible. How can you have a sourcebook that carefully and lovingly details a particular place, but have it be at any point of time? And even if you can do that for that for an isolated place (Vaasa, or Sosal, maybe), how do you do it for two deeply interconnected places? I'm thinking specifically of Thay and Rashemen/Aglarond, where the one has a very specific influence on the others and affects their history and course of development, but the argument could also be made for the Dalelands and the Moonsea and plenty of other places.
Time neutral adventures would be easier to pull off. Setting neutral would be a lot harder, since a lot of people buy adventures specifically so they don't have to go through the process of statting out a dungeons and all the inhabitants.
I'm not saying it's impossible, and I'd absolutely love it if they can pull it off. It just seems like two ends of a continuum that can't be easily pulled into a circle. Definitely something to look for when stuff starts coming out. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 18:10:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Ans the way I understood it was all future sourcebooks will have minimal to zero "crunch" and be as close to if not 100% "fluff" as possible
Oh, that would be wonderful!
I'm not opposed to having mechanics in a sourcebook, but I preferred the way 2E handled it: mostly lore, with a separate appendix for nastybad critters, magical toys, and spells. And the minimal statblocks, of course. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 18:13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Elsenrail
Is it the new FR logo?
Seems like it.
Perhaps the Realms books, both novels and game sourcebooks, will have Forgotten Realms branding once again.
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Edited by - Dark Wizard on 17 Aug 2012 18:35:27 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 18:27:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
while the 'old' car is pristine.
It might’ve been pristine, but that old car needed a lot of repairs and was lucky to hit 50 mph going downhill with a tailwind.
I expect this new car will positively fly.
Untrue. The old car ran just fine. If you're referring to ''too much canon'', the answer is that you could choose to include whatever you liked IYC. All the Realms needed was a different presentation of the lore, one more friendly/modular, not a removal. But whatever, it's not the case to get stuck in this discussion again, as I wish the new car to fly, just like you, but including some parts that belonged to the old one... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 18:37:03
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| Eric, which event/seminar are you at now? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 18:40:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Eric, which event/seminar are you at now?
What is the sundering?
Erin and paul have talked about how they realized that stories they wanted to tell became better through brainstorming on Sundering. |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 18:43:22
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Richard just talked about a new character and the realms feel coming back.
Troy just talked about a fallen paladin and forbidden love.
Ed is talking about elminster ... wants to die but needs a successor ... how does affect him and storm |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 19:21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Ans the way I understood it was all future sourcebooks will have minimal to zero "crunch" and be as close to if not 100% "fluff" as possible
Oh, that would be wonderful!
I'm not opposed to having mechanics in a sourcebook, but I preferred the way 2E handled it: mostly lore, with a separate appendix for nastybad critters, magical toys, and spells. And the minimal statblocks, of course.
I wish I could remember who Ed said wanted to do it, but there was talk of a monster book. Not just pics and stats, full ecology on each. Big enough and detailed so itprobably won't fit into one book. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 19:47:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
How can you have a sourcebook that carefully and lovingly details a particular place, but have it be at any point of time?
I'm not privy to any plans, but one idea would be to not pick a specific time but instead cover all times. Obviously that'll be easier in some places than others, but I think describing the character and feel of a place, and then giving a GHotR-style succession of the rulers, would be a good starting point. That gives you at least a jumping-off point for gaming in that place at any point in the timeline. Obviously lots of additional details can/should be added, since just having the names and dates of the rulers doesn't flesh things out much, but that's one general approach I think could work. Put the focus on the place/organization/whatever, and then fill in details elsewhere. Hopefully in online articles rather than another stream of incrementally updated sourcebooks because the latter would kinda hamstring the flexibility. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 20:02:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Ans the way I understood it was all future sourcebooks will have minimal to zero "crunch" and be as close to if not 100% "fluff" as possible
Oh, that would be wonderful!
I'm not opposed to having mechanics in a sourcebook, but I preferred the way 2E handled it: mostly lore, with a separate appendix for nastybad critters, magical toys, and spells. And the minimal statblocks, of course.
I wish I could remember who Ed said wanted to do it, but there was talk of a monster book. Not just pics and stats, full ecology on each. Big enough and detailed so itprobably won't fit into one book.
Oooh, oooh, oooh... I loved that about the 2E monster books. I was very disappointed that the 3.x books got rid of that, and it's part of the reason that my fave monster books from everything done in 3.x are the Iron Kingdoms Monsternomicon books. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 20:18:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Ans the way I understood it was all future sourcebooks will have minimal to zero "crunch" and be as close to if not 100% "fluff" as possible
Oh, that would be wonderful!
I'm not opposed to having mechanics in a sourcebook, but I preferred the way 2E handled it: mostly lore, with a separate appendix for nastybad critters, magical toys, and spells. And the minimal statblocks, of course.
I wish I could remember who Ed said wanted to do it, but there was talk of a monster book. Not just pics and stats, full ecology on each. Big enough and detailed so itprobably won't fit into one book.
Oooh, oooh, oooh... I loved that about the 2E monster books. I was very disappointed that the 3.x books got rid of that, and it's part of the reason that my fave monster books from everything done in 3.x are the Iron Kingdoms Monsternomicon books.
Yes, yes..they were many oohs and much drooling when Ed mentioned the possibility |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Live! Updates from Gencon 2012
