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vallon
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
 Posted - 19 May 2012 : 04:46:30
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| I agree re: Paul. I especially liked his rendering of Brennus. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2012 : 04:48:47
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True. He humanized him, and made him complex and far more interesting than most of his brothers. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2012 : 13:08:41
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| I heartily second this. A Karsus trilogy sounds great , so far we have just had a few short stories about that era but its left me wanting more, especially with Shade Enclave now playing such a prominent role in the realms. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2012 : 21:40:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I heartily second this. A Karsus trilogy sounds great , so far we have just had a few short stories about that era but its left me wanting more...
-We'd all prefer it being kept that way. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2012 : 01:16:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I heartily second this. A Karsus trilogy sounds great , so far we have just had a few short stories about that era but its left me wanting more, especially with Shade Enclave now playing such a prominent role in the realms.
Perhaps another Wizards series featuring Netheril's archwizards (Larloch, Telamont, Karsus, Ioulaum, Aumvor, ect) would be just right for this. And instead of making it stand-alone as the last Wizards novels, have an overarching theme that would tie the books in. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2012 : 11:52:08
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| I can understand that some people would prefer to preserve the mystery and glamour of that era but I really think a series that is handled well can do justice to it especially with a competent author or two at its helm. In fact we could have everyone favorite authors chipping in perhaps like the War of the Spider queen series. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2012 : 12:16:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
In fact we could have everyone favorite authors chipping in perhaps like the War of the Spider queen series.
I'd prefer not... In my opinion, one of the weaknesses of the WotSQ series is the way character personalities changed from book to book, which was caused by each book having a different author. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2012 : 12:22:20
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Attempting to be more objective, I ask what could Wizbro possibly accomplish with novels set in ancient Netheril?
If such novels should turn out to be poorly written they'll just throw another load of unwanted baggage and rubbish onto a wobbly pile of canon. Some fans would maintain that we would have been better served by no lore than by a mountain of awful lore.
On the other extreme, if these novels become popular, wildly popular, and spawn trilogies and sagas and talk about who'll be playing Mystryl and Karsus in the upcoming movie adaptations ... they would do so at the cost of taking focus (fanbase) away from the "present" Forgotten Realms. For those of us who reject WotC's version of modern Realmslore, hiding in the past might seem appealing but realistically doesn't change anything. The Netheril setting itself, being set as history, is somewhat linear, we know all about how and when and where certain apocalyptic events occur, we also know that any apparently significant characters and events which haven't been documented within ancient Netheril's history are ultimately fated to be of little or no consequence.
Basically, I see Wizbro having nothing to gain and possibly much to lose by shifting creative efforts towards dead-end product lines. |
[/Ayrik] |
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vallon
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2012 : 14:41:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Attempting to be more objective, I ask what could Wizbro possibly accomplish with novels set in ancient Netheril?
If such novels should turn out to be poorly written they'll just throw another load of unwanted baggage and rubbish onto a wobbly pile of canon. Some fans would maintain that we would have been better served by no lore than by a mountain of awful lore.
On the other extreme, if these novels become popular, wildly popular, and spawn trilogies and sagas and talk about who'll be playing Mystryl and Karsus in the upcoming movie adaptations ... they would do so at the cost of taking focus (fanbase) away from the "present" Forgotten Realms. For those of us who reject WotC's version of modern Realmslore, hiding in the past might seem appealing but realistically doesn't change anything. The Netheril setting itself, being set as history, is somewhat linear, we know all about how and when and where certain apocalyptic events occur, we also know that any apparently significant characters and events which haven't been documented within ancient Netheril's history are ultimately fated to be of little or no consequence.
Basically, I see Wizbro having nothing to gain and possibly much to lose by shifting creative efforts towards dead-end product lines.
Interesting points. However, I still find it rather astonishing that so few stories have been published about the Grand History of the Realms, from the Creator Races to the old Elven and Netherese civs. Like all histories where the facts are already known, it's the skill of the writer(s) and the presentation of the facts that determine whether great stories come to life and are entertaining to the reader.
Hopefully, the idea of lore from the past being released (and respected) is expanded to include the distant past... What can I say? I'm an eternal optimist.  |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2012 : 16:40:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
we also know that any apparently significant characters and events which haven't been documented within ancient Netheril's history are ultimately fated to be of little or no consequence.
I’d have agreed with you in all of this, if it weren’t for the fact that I played HALO: Reach.
Just like in that video game (where you know going in that the planet Reach is doomed), even if we know the fate of Netheril, it doesn’t mean the stories of all the people who lived, died and fought in Netheril aren’t interesting or of interest.
To me, the stories about the little guys; the people who didn’t raise up floating enclaves or challenge a goddess for her power—if they’re done well—are worth reading.
If these stories help to smooth out what I’ve observed many scribes around here refer to as the “very rough edges” of Netheril’s lore, all the better.
But if these stories don’t smooth out the edges…so what? The stories and the people in them are of no consequence, right? 
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 21 May 2012 16:48:36 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 03:53:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The Netheril setting itself, being set as history, is somewhat linear, we know all about how and when and where certain apocalyptic events occur, we also know that any apparently significant characters and events which haven't been documented within ancient Netheril's history are ultimately fated to be of little or no consequence.
Basically, I see Wizbro having nothing to gain and possibly much to lose by shifting creative efforts towards dead-end product lines.
If they really want to put more emphasis on the current edition (or future, 5E), they could tie the story set in the past to the "present" state of the empire's survivors. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 11:06:35
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| Establish some kind of cross-time storyline? I would personally vote most strongly against anything of the sort because it would eventually turn into the ultimate mechanism for rewriting written history ... a retcon machine built right into the setting itself. No thank you, why would I leave the launch codes with the same entity which already pressed the Big Red Button so many times before? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 21:33:26
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One sees a dot, another a hole. I could care less. It's not rewriting history for me, it's "expanding" it so many others can understand what really happened, and what could have, if this and that hadn't done this or that.
I'd also like to see how Halruaans started out, got nuked, and are presently rebuilding their nation... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 22:05:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'd also like to see how Halruaans started out <snip>
THIS would be awesome.
The whole struggle to get started, how they preserved their culture and what influence the faith of Azuth had would really interest me. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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vallon
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 23:12:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'd also like to see how Halruaans started out, got nuked, and are presently rebuilding their nation...
I agree. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 11:21:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
In fact we could have everyone favorite authors chipping in perhaps like the War of the Spider queen series.
I'd prefer not... In my opinion, one of the weaknesses of the WotSQ series is the way character personalities changed from book to book, which was caused by each book having a different author.
I can see your point bit to me that was more than offset by the different vibes each author brought to the series. It helped make it a lot more interesting. though perhaps it might not work so well in Netherils case as its history is already well documented. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 17:53:34
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I only read Books 5, 1, and 2 (in that order), and I saw how some characters were portrayed rather differently. Though most likely it's mainly because of the lack of a very good editor who's supposed to ensure continuity not just of the story but of the characters' portrayal as well. Get one who's really good, and then we can have a Netheril series penned by multiple authors, preferably the seasoned ones and those who've already written about or dabbled in Netherese lore. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 23 May 2012 19:09:19 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 18:59:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I only read read Books 5, 1, and 2 (in that order), and I saw how some characters were portrayed rather differently. Though most likely it's mainly because of the lack of a very good editor who's supposed to ensure continuity not just of the story but of the characters' portrayal as well. Get one who's really good, and then we can have a Netheril series penned by multiple authors, preferably the seasoned ones and those who've already wrote about or dabbled in Netherese lore.
It was flat out jarring to me, particularly with the draegloth.
It's one of the many reasons I rather disliked that series. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 19:15:20
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*Ugh*
One of the worst FR series EVER, and I blame it entirely on editing (or lack thereof).
If you want to read it and stay sane, assume ALL the major characters die immediately after the last page of each book, and a group of new characters are created (by some magical means, maybe even simple plastic surgery) with completely different personalities. They look the same, have the same voice and names, but are otherwise different people.
Then the series works.
With the proper editing, such a series could work - I can't recall any particular book I liked less then the others, so I don't think it was a writing problem. It was just one the worst examples of multiple-personality disorder (of every major character) I have ever seen. You could also plainly see that each author had their favorite, and their least favorite character, and wrote appropriately (so heroes became villains, and villains became heroes... over and over again). I know Drow are supposed to be chaotic, but they were downright schizophrenic.
Anyhow, I think it would be 'better' to keep each story in series unattached (but possibly related in the remotest way) to every other novel in the same series. Something along the lines of The Harpers series, rather then WotSQ, or any of the non-seris series they produced in late 3e (like the fighters, citadels, dungeons, etc).
I want tenuous connections, but I want the stories self-contained. if we gettting 'sweeping histories' of Netheril, Imaskar, the Old Empires, Imperial Calimshan, etc... I want them to be just that = 'snapshots' by individual authors - in individual novels - cove3ring different important events. If you want conections, use family names or what-not (or have them meet the same damn elf - at least they are good for something).
I think this will work better in the long-run as well, to generate new fans of the Realms - I think a long series of novels can be daunting to young readers (although the success of things like Harry Potter puts the lie to my logic).
And like I said, FR should NOT be marketed as 'D&D"; it should be marketed as a separate entity - it does well as a novel line without all the game tie-ins, and I think chaining t to that boat-anchor will just drag it down. Fantasy (and its horror sub-genre) are all the rage right now - D&D s losing ground at a time when it should be thriving. Sometimes you have to be like a Civil War surgeon and just amputate the 'bad parts' to save the patient. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 19:51:19
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| I am in the group that wants to see more set in the ancient empires. I think Markus is on the right track. Have series similar to the recent Waterdeep series. This gives us multiple authors who can cover multiple areas while still being connected by location/empire. One could be Netheril. One book could focus on it's earliest days. 2 could provide a snapshot of a later period somewhere around the pinnacle of their power with one being set in one of the enclaves and another on the ground to contrast the two groups. 1 would hopefully be an entry focusing on Shade written by Paul S Kemp. And so on. Then if a particular book proves really popular or lends itself well to expansion you expand on that book with that author as WotC is doing with Erik's Shadowbane series that follows up his Waterdeep entry. This would also allow for a shorter time table of releases so if it proves popular they can quickly start on the next empire to explore. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 05:27:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I want tenuous connections, but I want the stories self-contained. if we gettting 'sweeping histories' of Netheril, Imaskar, the Old Empires, Imperial Calimshan, etc... I want them to be just that = 'snapshots' by individual authors - in individual novels - cove3ring different important events. If you want conections, use family names or what-not (or have them meet the same damn elf - at least they are good for something).
Given that the elves taught magic to the first Netherese people, it's fine that elves would have some novel time. But, (need I say?) I'd surely hate it if they have more than a quarter of a book in the series.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think this will work better in the long-run as well, to generate new fans of the Realms - I think a long series of novels can be daunting to young readers (although the success of things like Harry Potter puts the lie to my logic).
An excellent editor can do wonders. Even if authors show inconsistencies in the portrayal of some characters or locales, an excellent editor would see and rectify them. In other words, an inter-connected series (with an overarching plot) can still work out fine. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thoughts About The Past And The Future
