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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Apr 2012 : 16:51:15
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So, the Eminence of Araunt is one of the few things I liked in the 4E FRCG, and I don't think it'd be that difficult to backport it to the 1370s era.
Here's a thought I had the other day... The Eminence was founded by a bone naga named Lod, and has the goal of uniting undead into a single kingdom. What if Lod (or his [non-canon but not implausible] unseen backer) has a goal further than that... What if Lod or his backer was a rival of Myrkul or Velsharoon, and the whole point of the Eminence is to simply gather lots of power -- power that will eventually fuel a bid for deification?
Maybe the plan is to get enough worship from intelligent undead to get promoted.
Maybe the plan is to get a bunch of intelligent undead under one banner and siphon off their power, similar to how Bhaal's followers were sacrificed to help Bane 1.0.
Maybe the plan is to have a bunch of intelligent undead eventually do a mass sacrifice of thousands of innocent people and use the energy from that for power.
Or maybe the idea is to get lots of intelligent undead together and convince/trick them to form a single entity that's powerful enough to become a deity.
Heck, going with what little I know of 4E lore, maybe deification actually is the goal, and maybe it was Eminence-manipulation that led to the thwarting of Szassy's plans with the Dread Rings...
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2012 : 21:30:04
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Could be that the unseen backer is Orcus, biding his time and using Lod to further his goals on Faerūn. He had sufferd some big misshaps in Damara and seeks to gain an army?
I dunno, I'm a hig fan of the guy as an enemy and used him in similar fashion with Araunt. Great ideas BTW. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 04:47:14
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| mybe they are the sacrificed assassins of bhaal returned and dont come from abeir like the common beleif is. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 06:20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
mybe they are the sacrificed assassins of bhaal returned and dont come from abeir like the common beleif is.
Well, the FRCG put the origins of the Araunt at 500 years ago. That's 400 years before Bhaal lost his followers.
But if you revamp the Eminence as a purely Faerūnian organization, perhaps the secret leader I'm speculating on could be a hidden Bhaalspawn, or a follower of Bhaal that somehow missed Bane's party, and who is working to bring back his master... Nifty idea, there, SF.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 10:26:36
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My own thinking on the Eminence suggests that the Codex of Araunt [or, rather, the ritualistic knowledge contained within] is, itself, the key [and, the secret founder/backer] of the "kingdom."
Thus, Araunt, is in fact the name by which the collective knowledge comprised from the literally thousands of intelligent undead who have been destroyed over the last five centuries, is known.
Was it a possible plan for apotheosis hatched by a potential rival of Myrkul that somehow escaped the rival's control, or perhaps become "self-aware" after the accidental death of the rival before he could draw on the collected worship in order to achieve divinity? [This kind of links with Wooly's initial ideas above, I suppose.]
Perhaps the very act of so much collective knowledge of intelligent undead coming together in one place somehow allowed it to achieve a bizarre form of sentience, and then sought to propagate itself by investing it's future as 'sacred rituals' learned/carried by devoted followers, before finally seeking "divinity" through the "indestructibility" of knowledge. After all, why seek the traditional form of godhood [which has proven, countless times, to be highly troublesomely relative to the powers above, adjacent, and below a newly risen power] when the very idea, the thought, the knowledge, has proved to be every bit as successful in maintaining "immortality" and "power" as any deity in the history of either Abeir or Toril?
--
Basically, my idea for the Eminence boils down to the possibility that the knowledge of the rituals contained in the Codex, is Araunt. And it's kingdom, so to speak, is in the mind of every sentient form of undead and every locale they hold under their collective control. You can't "kill" knowledge, and so, knowledge of the undead, as Araunt, is the true and only form of undeath that those who serve the Eminence, should seek. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 18:11:15
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I like where this is going. Wooly has great suggestions, and Sage put a nice spin on a few things.
You could just keep it 'mysterious', and not even decide if Lod has a patron. You could also simply ignore Lod (or say he's a figurehead/illusion/etc) and have Larloch behind it all (Larloch does love portals, and thats what the EoA is building everywhere). Or you could even link it to someone else like Orcus, but it could even be 'Velsharoon returned', or the Raven Queen (a stretch), or even Mellifleur (or Vecna!)
But no matter what you did - think on this: Maybe the portal network is secondary, or only 'a cover' for the real plan. Whats another way to look at 'a vast network'? A 'Weave', perhaps? In that case, it may be Shar rebuilding her Weave after its destruction (which falls a little outside of Wooly's OP - he wanted it pre-plague), or it may have been someone else trying to usurp Shar's weave, or build a better one. Anyone know how old the Shadoweave is? Maybe this is how Shar began it (if the Arcane Weave reaches both worlds, then the Shadoweave should as well, and thats how she built the Shadoweave without Mystra realizing it).
Regardless, someone is trying to build an epic-sized energy-web around Toril, and they are adding to the Road of Stars and Shadows to do so. Like I side, the portal could just be a byproduct of linking locales with a specific type of energy (a shadow-node?) associated with death.
Also, there is no reason why you couldn't keep the Abeir connection (IF you don't absolutely hate Abeir). If someone powerful - who is also very good with translocation magics (Larloch jumps to mind again) - found a way to travel between Abeir and Toril 500 years past, they may have begun this plan there as a side-thing. It could just be a fortunate (or misfortunate) accident that it wound-up on Toril. On the other hand, you have to figure there is some part of the organization still back on Abeir (since its supposed to be 'global'), which means their newly-created tomb-portals could also lead one between worlds (another unforseen accident). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Apr 2012 18:20:20 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 07:32:09
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Why move it back to 1370s? I'd rather have them move the timeline forward. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 10:48:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Why move it back to 1370s? I'd rather have them move the timeline forward.
Because I don't like the 4E Realms. I'm a huge fan of moving the timeline forward, just not in that direction.... Besides, this operation is about using the Eminence in a Realms where the Spellplague didn't happen. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 17:09:52
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The Eminence as something already existing in the Realms is a juicy idea.
One of the things that interested me about them is their potential to be a menace of the kind found in every royal crypt throughout the Realms.
Sages idea about the Eminence seeking knowledge goes in the same direction I envisioned for them: the Eminence of Araunt seek to call up the spirits of royals, nobles, wizards, clerics and any other important individual, for the purpose of learning all the secrets that should have died in the minds of these individuals, so the Eminence can come to control a nation or city state (whether that control is covert or overt) and learn who the real foes and wielders of power were and are in any given place.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 19:27:05
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Not to bring my point over from the other thread... but I will...
IF you accept the notion that Abeir is part of The Forgotten Realms, and always was since 'the dawn of time' (its first 'appearance' seems to be in the GHotR, which was 3e), then the Eminence of Araunt IS/WAS around in the Realms since 885 DR.
Unless you simply refuse to accept that Abeir is part of realmslore (in which case I would have to ask you what setting IS it part of?)
Anyhow, given that canonically the EoA has existed in 'The Realms' since 885DR (or there-abouts), then we could say that the EoA discovered a means by which to travel between worlds some time ago, and set-up a 'beach-head' (which may actually BE Walock's Crypt, or someplace else, like Thunderholme). To be honest, the more I think on it, the more I think Larloch would be the logical (perfect, actually) choice for the Toril-side of the EoA. The only difference being that no-one discovered the EoA before Returned Abeir appeared.
So its not so much a case of shoe-horning 4e lore into the pre-plague realms, but rather, assuming the Torillian branch was just better at keeping it secret.
If you truly HATE the Abeir concept (I used to be in that camp... but it is convenient), then I would say use it as some sort of planer organization that has only recently begun making advances into the Realms (or, at least, has only been discovered recently). The EoA may even be a faction (defunct, new, or secret) from Sigil.
Or maybe 'Araunt' is Kiaransalee's ex-husband from Threnody (that world making the PERFECT base-of-operations for a planer-EoA).
Another option is to say that the EoA grew out of the fallen kingdom of necromancers that existed on Sahu (see 2e's The Complete Book of Necromancers). In that scenario, Araunt = Thasmudyan, the 'King of Worms'. The cool thing about that is that the fluff for that sub-setting says that the Necromancer kings discovered the truly ancient temples to Thasmudyan already there when they arrived (strange, mushroom-shaped affairs), which could even give us a creator-Race connection.
If you wanted to broaden the field, the EoA (whatever edition you use) could be linked to liches and other undead in K-T, and even the Ghuls in Zakhara, because of their long-reaching goals. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 19:54:14
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See, I'm looking at having the Eminence be totally homegrown, and from Faerūn. It doesn't need to be from elsewhere; other than the canon reference to it starting in Abeir, there is nothing about the Eminence that keeps it from originating somewhere in Faerūn. Its ties to Abeir are cosmetic and can be easily changed.
For example, what if my theoretical backer for Lod is one of the Imaskarcana? Perhaps Lod discovered one of the Imaskarcana, a collection of necromantic lore that somehow gained sentience -- perhaps thru a ritual gone wrong, or a lich trying to use the Imaskarcana as a phylactery. This Imaskarcana now seeks to be more than just a thinking object, and has set its sights on godhood as the best way to have freedom from its physical form and the power to spread undeath across the face of Toril... |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Apr 2012 19:55:19 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 20:30:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Or maybe the idea is to get lots of intelligent undead together and convince/trick them to form a single entity that's powerful enough to become a deity...
I like this idea. However, becoming a deity is something a lot of beings do, so how about going one step higher and trying to re-order the planes and the whole business of deities and where souls go?
The core idea is this: eradicate souls and allow for only one kind of afterlife--one that receives the mind-stuff of undead.
The idea would consist of several parts. First, restructure society so that undead rule over the living.
Second, cause the living to aspire to undeath as a form of elevation and convince them that death before unlife always leads to a kind of hell.
The more powerful a person becomes in society, the higher form of undead they will be transformed into. Those living beings who don't serve well are forcibly transformed into mindless undead (the worst fate one can have in an undead-centered society).
The processes that power these undead transformations are, ironically enough, powered by living souls, which deprives the deities of new souls to collect--not sure how this hurts the deities, but I'm working on it.
Aspiring to undeath means praying to Araunt and no other deity--believers are taught all other deities hate undead and any deity claiming to control undead are liars served by heretics that are to be slain on sight. This deprives the gods of worshippers.
Lastly, ascending beyond undeath means joining an afterlife created by demi-liches (arch-liches?) and comprised of their thoughts and minds.
Anyway, something like that...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 21:29:09
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If you use that, then it could still be an 'ancient power' - one who is struggling to return, and needs a LOT of power to come back (more so then your run-of-the-mill deific ascendence). Perhaps it is something that was imprisoned during the godwars.
It would work very similar to my uni-mind concept of deific creation - that 'gods' are formed from the collective consciousness of a race/species - except that this is even broader, and would use 'undeath' as the linking-factor (rather then race).
Undeath, to me, is not very lawful (I am just reading some of the stuff in Fiendish Codex II as I write this), so I would think this is something some 'elder evil'-like being could be patronizing. Especially given some of the ideas Jeremy contributed above - the restructuring of the universe itself.
Perhaps it doesn't want there to be a 'life' (Material plane & perhaps the Inner Planes) and a 'death' (outer Planes) - it wants just one plane, like it probably was in the beginning, before the multiverse was formed.
Anyhow, @Wooly - sorry, was doing the "throw stuff at a wall and see what sticks" approach. I still think Thazmudyan is an excellent way to go - see the other thread I revived in the Sages of Realmslore forum. I really like the idea that the Nog/Kadar societies were Imaskari settlements (non-canon), and that the Sahu necromancer kings came from there (that part is canon), which means Thazmudyan may have been something the Imaskari summoned, or had dealings with (like Pandorym).
That means you can connect the non-4e version of the EoA to Imaskar - it could be the same group that exists in Bhaluin, the Drowned City (The Horde box, pg.27), and could also be connected to those death-knights in the Fortress of Al-Banar (in The Shaar, featured in the SS books). Could be those knights were with some other power even before Myrkul (and coincidentally enough, we now know Myrkul was from this area pre-ascendence - he was from Murghom, which is an Imaskari survivor-state). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Apr 2012 21:09:06 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2012 : 03:55:00
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So, here's my latest thought...
You've got a mage who we will, for sake of simplicity, call Frehd.
Frehd has a thing for ancient Imaskari magic. He's way powerful, way smart, and manages to find the location of one of the lost Imaskarcana -- we'll call it the Sixth Imaskarcana; IIRC, that one is undescribed. It doesn't matter at this point, this is still brainstorming.
The Sixth Imaskarcana is some sort of device loaded with much magical lore, predominantly necromantic in nature. Maybe it's even got something resembling an intelligence inside it already, like the kiira that Araevin found in the Last Mythal books. A necromantic Holocron, if you will.
So Frehd learns a lot from this thing, and gets to be even more of an Imaskari fanboi. He's also getting on in years, and comes up with the nifty idea, perhaps inspired by the unheard prompting of the Sixth Imaskarcana, of becoming a lich with the Imaskarcana as his phylactery.
Well, the process doesn't go so well for Frehd; turns out that you really shouldn't try to use an artifact as a phylactery. He's bound to the Imaskarcana, and in fact becomes the bodiless, free-willed intelligence of the artifact.
Frehd gets to thinking, and since he's already an Imaskari fanboi, thinks that their idea of giving deities the finger was a pretty nifty one. He hatches a rather ambitious plot: to recreate the barrier that kept out the deities of the slaves the Imaskari stole. Except he wants to scale it up, and prevent all divine influence in the reborn Imaskar. Which is the second part of his idea -- he wants to recreate Imaskar, as well, but he wants to do it as a necrocracy, a nation ruled by the undead. Specifically, liches. He wants to found Eternal Imaskar.
So to do all that, first Frehd has to seriously ramp up his power levels. And to do that, he founds the Eminence of Araunt, with Lod as its leader. Lod may not even know he's not the real leader... |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 02:57:35
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I mentioned it in another thread...If the gods have aspects, why not Ao, too? The Eminence could be his aspect. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 04:05:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I mentioned it in another thread...If the gods have aspects, why not Ao, too? The Eminence could be his aspect.
Why would Ao have an aspect? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 04:06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I mentioned it in another thread...If the gods have aspects, why not Ao, too? The Eminence could be his aspect.
Why would Ao have an aspect?
Why do gods have aspects? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 04:58:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I mentioned it in another thread...If the gods have aspects, why not Ao, too? The Eminence could be his aspect.
Why would Ao have an aspect?
Why do gods have aspects?
For increased worship, which Ao does not need.
Besides, that's not really relevant to this discussion. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 06:20:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I mentioned it in another thread...If the gods have aspects, why not Ao, too? The Eminence could be his aspect.
Why would Ao need an aspect? He's a creator god, whose power lies beyond the need for worshippers. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 06:56:33
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I addressed that in the other thread. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 21:28:40
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Aspects are like self-aware avatars, and I think an avatar of an overgod would be something akin to a deity (at least, power-wise).
Perhaps primordials are avatars/aspects of overgods. 
Anyhow, I like it Wooly. Have you read that entry on Bhaluin? It would make a fine HQ for such a group, or perhaps it was where the Imaskarcana was found. Did he learn how to become a lich on the 66th page of the 6th Imaskarcana? 
To take your own ideas further, what if 'Araunt' (which may be Frehd, or the Imaskarcana, or some combination of both) wants to become the undead overgod of Realmspoace? It could even be a some sort of crazy scheme to turn Ao itself into Araunt (thus creating a 'dead sphere').
Suppose overgods derive 'sustenance' from life itself? Related to the way that deities get power from worship, except no worship is required - just numbers. By turning a sphere into a (un)dead sphere, you could conceivably kill the overgod. Another way to look at is that the sphere is the 'body' of the overgod itself, and undeath is like a cancer, spreading.
I still like the idea of tying it to some power that was 'vanquished' long-ago (possibly by Ao).
Another way to spin what you have is to say that Imaskarkana deals with 'creating gods' whole-cloth, which is why the Imaskari didn't feel they needed deities - they felt they had move beyond them. Perhaps the magical chaos unleashed by the Mulan pantheon(s) on Imaskar somehow bound all those imaskari souls (all dying at the same time) into the Imaskarkana, and thats what Araunt is? It is the vengeful overmind of the Imaskari people, who want to get revenge on Ao himself? It would almost be like a bodiless uber-Sharn.
What would this Imaskarkana look like? I think the Crown of Horns would make an excellent 6th Imaskarkana, but that would crap on some previous lore (although Bhaluin and Murghom/Myrkul were right there). It should be some sort of greater artifact, and have an appearance that relates to it's nature (like a large bone, a scepter with an inverted ankh at the top, or even a canopic jar, etc). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Apr 2012 21:31:23 |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2012 : 10:42:19
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| The origins of EMA lie in Abeir but that does not mean they could have already arrived in Toril ages ago. Perhaps Lod is just a lackey receiving orders from an even more powerful member of the Eminence. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2012 : 13:47:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
The origins of EMA lie in Abeir but that does not mean they could have already arrived in Toril ages ago.
Again, my objective is to come up with a version of the Eminence that is divorced from its Abeiran origin. I'm trying to make it something that originated in Faerūn.
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Perhaps Lod is just a lackey receiving orders from an even more powerful member of the Eminence.
In canon, Lod founded the Eminence. But in the version I'm spinning here, Lod is merely the front for someone else. In this version, Lod is the only one who knows he's not truly the founder or driving force behind the Eminence. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2012 : 11:04:18
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| And he fears this mysterious founder, maybe the Terraseer or Aumvor? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2012 : 17:11:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
And he fears this mysterious founder, maybe the Terraseer or Aumvor?
I see him as being either an unwitting puppet, being very subtly manipulated, or as a willing partner, enjoying his position of apparent leadership. The unwitting puppet would be more fun, I think.
And I prefer a previously unknown third party, as I posted above. Nothing against Aumvor or the Terraseer, but I don't see them having the motivation that I'm giving to Frehd, and I'd prefer not to use one of the canon big names -- too obvious. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 Apr 2012 17:12:29 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2012 : 18:18:27
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Didn't like Thasmudyan, eh? He's canon, but so esoteric that he is nearly as good as using 'an unknown quantity'.
I like the idea Lod doesn't know he's being used. If we go with your 'controller artifact' - the Imaskarkana (or some other 'lost tome of secrets') - then he could have accidentally triggered an imbedded spell within the work, that subtly manipulates him (like a geas).
Or it could be less subtle - it could be something along the lines of him "hearing the voice of god". He could think he really is doing 'the work of god', while something else is at play (but in D&D, with no monotheistic god, that fine-line doesn't even exist).
If heavily re-worded the above, leaving out the RW examples. Upon editing I could see how someone could have been offended. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 04:46:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Didn't like Thasmudyan, eh? He's canon, but so esoteric that he is nearly as good as using 'an unknown quantity'.
No idea who he is.
Using a homebrew backer, though, allows me to do exactly what I want with him. I'm not sure that my Eternal Imaskar idea is the best one, but it's what I've got at the moment. I'm sure there's something better, but it's eluding me, at the moment.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I like the idea Lod doesn't know he's being used. If we go with your 'controller artifact' - the Imaskarkana (or some other 'lost tome of secrets') - then he could have accidentally triggered an imbedded spell within the work, that subtly manipulates him (like a geas).
That works, as well, though I favor having some intelligence in the driver's seat. I think a former mortal would have more understandable motivations.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Or it could be less subtle - it could be something along the lines of him "hearing the voice of god". He could think he really is doing 'the work of god', while something else is at play (but in D&D, with no monotheistic god, that fine-line doesn't even exist).
I've not gotten as far as working out how Lod is controlled. This is still all wandering about in my mind, looking for the best ideas to get together with.
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 07:10:34
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| I like the idea of using Thasmudyan, but since he is a exiled archdevil(most likely) his goals would be to gain an army of undead in the Prime, to remake it into his own personal demesne, before storming Nessus to put down you-know-who. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 08:02:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Didn't like Thasmudyan, eh? He's canon, but so esoteric that he is nearly as good as using 'an unknown quantity'.
No idea who he is.
I'm going from memory, but I think Thasmudyan is from Zakhara. He's a Baatezu lord who is said to be worshipped by the necromancer kings of an ancient kingdom. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 16:30:36
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Not sure if he appeared in any Zakhara material (I barely owned any of that), but he was mentioned as the main 'big bad' in The Complete Book of Necromancers, which details the sub-sub-setting of Sahu, The Island of the Necromancer-Kings.
I rezzed another thread in the "Sages of Realmslore" section about Thasmudyan, and some interesting ideas were brought up there - that nog & Kadar were imaskari survivor-states (they are immediately SE of the Raurin region, on the other side of the mountains). The Necromancer Kings came from there, after those kingdoms fell (see Ruined Kingdoms. It must some sense, in hindsight, now that we know Shou-Lung began as the 3rd age of Imaskar - Anok Imaskar (Tan-Chin was highly active in that region between K-T proper and Zakhara, along the coast of the Segara Sea - see Ronin Challenge). This means some Imaskari culture was brought to that jungle region, which lead to the founding of Nog & Kadar, which lead to the founding of the Island of the Necromancer Kings. So in a very round-about way, Thasmudyan is FR canon, and seems to be all about undeath.
I've pegged the Cult of Worms as the predecessor of the Cult of the Dragon, but you may find it works well as the pre-cursor to Lod's organization. Although the official material says he's a Baatezu, its easy to re-think him as an Elder Evil, or anything else, really. He's pretty 'primal' (as in, 'ancient, lost power').
Bhaluin, the Drowned City, in Gbor Nor (Broightstar Lake) is also an excellent tie-in for Imaskari necrology - check its entry in The Horde campaign set.
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
I like the idea of using Thasmudyan, but since he is a exiled archdevil(most likely) his goals would be to gain an army of undead in the Prime, to remake it into his own personal demesne, before storming Nessus to put down you-know-who.
I was thinking along the same lines, and that he could possibly be Orcus' LE opposite. However, I would say that part of his 'fall from power' should be attributed to his love of undeath, which isn't very lawful behavior (it violates the laws of nature).
Which is why I say he may be a Baatezu (or an even more ancient Baatoran), but he doesn't necessarily have to be a devil (anymore). He could be to modern devils what Obyrith are to Demons. This is also why I think he could be classified as an 'Elder Evil' by this point (like Pandorym, which gives us another Imaskar tie-in). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Apr 2012 16:45:14 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 17:57:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Not sure if he appeared in any Zakhara material (I barely owned any of that), but he was mentioned as the main 'big bad' in The Complete Book of Necromancers, which details the sub-sub-setting of Sahu, The Island of the Necromancer-Kings.
That explains it... I've got a lot of the old Complete books, but I've twice built my collection, and ignored the necromancers book both times -- just not into those guys.
And while I do have all of the Zakhara stuff, I've got such a huge backlog of reading material that I've not even put that stuff on the to-read list, yet. Those are a more recent acquisition for me; I only had one of those books before the fire I went thru. |
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The Revamping of Araunt...
