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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 25 Dec 2003 :  13:59:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Here's a little secret project...

This PrC is a 'hypered' up Duelist, with host of nifty fencing maneuvers, tricks and techniques for a more stylish feel. The term 'Master of Defence' is a Renaissance holdover with roots in Middle English, often used to address teachers of fencing and other martial pursuits.

Oh, and it's also my Christmas present to the Bookwyrm...enjoy...



Due to it's length, it will be located in the next post.


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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

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31701 Posts

Posted - 25 Dec 2003 :  14:08:04  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master of Defence

Any Tom, Dek and Hotaru can wield a sword, but it takes true grit and mastery to excel in one. Masters of Defence are swordsmen non-pareil, schooled in the killing ways of the rapier. But discard any romantic notions of swashbuckling adventure and fantastic fencers; the Master's techniques are flashy, yes, but they're utilitarian, practical, designed not just to impress, but to overwhelm. While no two Master's techniques are quite the same, the spirit and discipline are fundamentally similar - strike hard, strike efficiently, strike to kill.

Hit Die: d8

Requirements
To qualify to become a Master of Defence (MsD), a character must fulfill the following criteria.

Base Attack Bonus: +6
Bluff: 5 ranks
Tumble: 5 ranks
Proficiency: Rapier
Feats: Weapon Focus (Rapier) and any three of the following - Ambidexterity, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Expertise, Mobility, Quick Draw, Spring Attack, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Specialization (Rapier)
Special: Must study under a Master of Defence, and subsequently defeat said Master in a duel.

Class Skills
The Master of Defence's class skills (and key attributes for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Weaponsmithing) (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Swordsmanship) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis) and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier

BaB: As Fighter
Saves: Fort, Reflex Good, Will Poor

The Master of Defence

1 Favored Style, Masterful Defense
2 Botta Segreta: 2 masterstrokes
3 Legacy of the Masters
4 Botta Segreta: 2 masterstrokes
5 Legacy of the Masters
6 Botta Segreta: 2 masterstrokes
7 Legacy of the Masters
8 Botta Segreta: 1 masterstroke
9 Legacy of the Masters
10 Botta Segreta: 1 masterstroke

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Master of Defence.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Master of Defence gains no additional weapon proficiencies. He is not proficient with any armor, and the only shield he is proficient with is the buckler.

Favored Style: The Master may use his Dexterity, Intelligence or Charisma modifier instead of Strength modifier on attack rolls. This reflects his chosen style of combat, be it an adroit one, insightful one or stylish one. This selection also impacts his Masterful Defense. Once the Master adopts a favored style, it cannot be changed.

Masterful Defense: When not wearing armor, the Master applies his Dexterity, Intelligence or Charisma modifier as an Insight bonus to his AC. This bonus represents the Master's intuitive feel for danger and his skill at swordplay, and Master does not lose this bonus even in situations when he loses his Dexterity modifier due to being unprepared, ambushed and so on*.

*The Master still loses his Dexterity bonus while flatfooted, though he retains the Dexterity bonus to AC from Masterful Defense. This betters his AC in hairy situations, but does not exempt him from sneak attacks or other such attacks as uncanny dodge does.

Legacy of the Masters: As the Master's skill at arms increases, he learns a handful of useful tricks and techniques that increases his efficiency in combat. The Master may pick Weapon Specialization (Rapier) or any Fighter Bonus feat each time he inherits the Legacy of the Masters.

Botta Segreta: A Master picks up a handful of 'secret arts', unique maneuvers taught only to those with the aptitude for the swordsman's craft. These arts are split into three rough schools according to the Master of Defence's Favored style, but that does not mean the Master is capable of learning attacks from that school. Most Masters pick up a trick or two from opposing schools, just for the more varied and interesting edge. See below for a full list of Secret Paths and combat maneuvers. Masters may learn all five stances in their Favored Style, and up to the first three stances of rival Styles.



The Path of Thorns (Favored: Charisma): Flashy, showy, almost arrogant, the Path of Thorns is all these and more. This Path is premised on rapid feints and blows that angle above and under an opponent's guard, striking like a hail of thorns, riddling an opponent's body with a thousand tiny pinpricks, each one sinking through flesh into something vital.

Stance Progression: Finta -> Coupe -> Balestra -> Stoccata Lunga -> Mandritta Lunga

Finta: As a true master of fencing, the Master is an adept of feinting and probing for openings. As such, the Master may Feint as a Move Equivalent rather than a Standard action while using a rapier.
Required: Favored Style: Charisma or Charisma 15+

Coupe: A tap down on an opponent's blade, followed by thrusts angling in from the four cardinals. If the Master manages to catch his opponent off guard, he may elect to launch a flurry of strikes over and under his opponent's guard, seeking out vitals and inflicting additional damage. Whenever the Master's opponent loses his Dexterity bonus to AC, the Master inflicts an extra +2d6 damage on a successful hit. This is otherwise similar to a Rogue's Sneak Attack ability, and creatures immune to Sneak Attacks are naturally unharmed by Coupe. If the Master has Sneak Attack, this damage stacks.
Required: Finta

Balestra: A hop, a kick, a handspring, the Master's Feints are so sharp, precise and flawless that they are virtually indistinguishable from his ordinary blows. The Master may Feint as a Free action rather than a Move Equivalent action.
Required: Coupe

Stoccata Lunga: A lunging thrust, with the full weight of the Master's body behind the blow. Following a successful Feint, the Master can designate his next attack as a Lunge attack. This attack inflicts double Strength damage on a successful hit.
Required: Balestra

Mandritta Lunga: A diagonal cut that punches through an opponent's arms and armor, bisecting him. Following a successful Feint, the Master can designate his next attack as Mandritta Lunga. This attack inflicts triple Strength damage on a successful hit.
Required: Stoccata Lunga



The Path of Embers (Favored: Dexterity): Like embers stirred from a raging fire, the stances of this form are stinging, painful, fast and furious. The Master dances at the center of a storm of searing sword strikes, each stab and thrust hammering down an opponent's guard, driving him relentlessly to his knees before delivering the final masterstroke.

Stance Progression: Falso Dritto -> Falso Manco -> Stromacione -> Scandaglio -> Coup de Main

Falso Dritto: By slicing at an opponent's wrists, the Master can force an opponent to drop his weapon, merely by reflex. The Master may make a Disarm attempt as a free action after successfully striking an opponent with his rapier. This Disarm attempt does not provoke an opportunity.
Required: Favored Style: Dexterity or Dexterity 15+

Falso Manco: With a quick turn and slice to the rear of an opponent's legs, the Master can sever muscle and tendon, hobbling his foe. The Master can make a Trip attempt as a free action after successfully striking an opponent with his rapier. A tripped foe is knocked prone for as many rounds as the amount of damage inflicted by the Master's initial hit.
Required: Falso Dritto

Stromacione: A flick and a cut at an opponent's face, the Stromacione has the potential to blind foes, sometimes permanently. The Master can designate one of his attacks for the round as Stromacione. If it hits, the opponent must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + Master levels + Master's Dex modifier) or be blinded temporarily in one eye. This results in a -2 to hit rolls. If the victim is struck by Stromacione a second time, he is physically blinded, as if subject to a blindness spell.
Required: Falso Manco

Scandaglio: Sometimes, disarming an opponent is not enough. A Master versed in Scandaglio can just as easily trap an opponent's weapon and turn it against him, inflicting a multitude of vicious wounds on his unlucky victim, before delivering the final, crippling blow. The Master must have one hand free to perform this maneuver. If the Master succeeds at a Disarm attempt and seizes control of his opponent's weapon, he may instantly take a free attack with that weapon at his highest attack bonus. The Master temporarily negates penalties associated with two-weapon fighting while executing Scandaglio.
Required: Stromacione

Coup de Main: Strike cleanly and strike to kill. These are the first and last tenets of the Path of Embers. The Coup de Main is a simple and efficient blow, a razor quick slice to the jugular delivered in the span of an eyeblink. Following the successful execution of Falso Dritto and Falso Manco, the Master may elect to execute Coup de Main in lieu of taking his remaining attacks for the round, delivering a death blow on his opponent. Coup de Main requires a successful attack roll. If the blow connects, the Master's opponent must make a Fortitude save at DC 10 + damage inflicted or die immediately.
Required: Scandaglio



The Path of Roses (Favored: Intelligence): Graceful, poised, tempered with measured strides and elegant sweeps, the Path of Roses is a gentleman's path. A Master of this path stands at the center of an impenetrable wall of steel, deflecting and returning each blow as it lands, never yielding, never relenting.

Stance Progression: Guardia -> Stesso Tempo -> Incartata -> Passa Strato -> Seconda Strato

Guardia: The first motions of the Path of Roses, Guardia draws seven elaborate circles of steel through the air, warding off potentially fatal blows. When the Master takes a full defense action, he gains a +4 circumstance bonus to AC. This bonus stacks with any bonuses afforded by Masterful Defense, skills or class features.
Required: Favored Style: Intelligence or Intelligence 15+

Stesso Tempo: The parry and rapid counterthrust is one of the first motions taught to a would be swordsman. If an opponent strikes at and misses the Master while he is using Guardia, the Master may take an attack of opportunity on this opponent as a free action. This attack of opportunity is in addition to any attacks of opportunity the Master could make for the round.
Required: Guardia

Incartata: This maneuver is a boon for Masters of the Path of Roses, allowing them to just step out of threatening situations through a combination of skill and fancy footwork. Whenever an opponent strikes at the Master and misses, the Master may make a 5 ft adjust as a free action.
Required: Stesso Tempo

Passa Strato: Like wind rushing through a field of roses, setting petals and leaves astir, the Master's sword dances in his wake, scouring vicious cuts on errant opponents in passing. Each time the Master performs Incartata, he may make an attack of opportunity against an opponent in an adjacent square as a free action. This attack of opportunity is in addition to any attacks of opportunity the Master could make for the round.
Required: Incartata

Seconda Strato: The Master's sword flits through the air, drawing bloody plumes through the air as he whirls at the center of a dance of crimson roses. Each time the Master performs Passa Strato, he may make another 5 ft adjust as a free action.
Required: Passo Strato






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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
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Posted - 25 Dec 2003 :  14:10:11  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Using Knowledge (Swordsmanship)

The Knowledge (Swordsmanship) skill can be used, much like the Spellcraft skill, to study the subtle movements of trained swordsmen, sometimes allowing the Master of Defence to preempt an opponent's attacks. A successful check (DC 15) grants the Master a +2 Insight bonus to AC against a designated opponent's next attack. An overwhelming success, against DC 25, grants the Master a +2 Insight bonus to AC against said opponent's attacks for that entire combat. The Master may only read one single opponent in this way. This skill affects only opponents wielding swords and rapiers. Opponents using other weapon types are beyond the Master's ken. If the Master of Defence switches targets or opponents, he must make another check to gain the benefits of this skill.


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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2887 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2003 :  00:35:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very, very nice, Sage.

I have no design comments, as it seems perfect as it is...

One question: What language is botta segreta, etc. from, if any?
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe

466 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2003 :  03:44:04  Show Profile  Visit Dracandos the Spellsage's Homepage Send Dracandos the Spellsage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
u never cease 2 amaze me sage

Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead

The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo

Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster

Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna

I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
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Posted - 26 Dec 2003 :  08:01:14  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Botta Segreta is from the Italian dialect -
quote:
A term used in Fencing referring to a secret attack or special hidden technique of a school or master.


For most of the other terms, search through this resource, it should answer most of your questions regarding terms, and the like.


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Edited by - The Sage on 26 Dec 2003 08:03:59
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2003 :  07:34:16  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Iím highly impressed, especially at the research you did yourself. I didnít go into the traditional things, like the nome di Italiano (very nice touch there, by the way), because of two reasons.

One, Jack (like me) canít speak foreign languages to save his life. (Though now that heís in the Realms, learning the languages is going to be a very big help; heíll also have a lot more motivation now.)

Second, I was treating his fencing like the classes in ďkarateĒ (note the quotation hashes) I took some years back. That class was taught by a 3-knot black belt who shamelessly stole from every unarmed style in the world. It was just called karate for convenienceís sake. Most of the ritual was ignored, as this guy taught very practically. This approach became even more important when I decided that Jack would be using a highly unique style.

For instance, rather than guardia prima, seconda, or terra, or other such stances, Iím (preliminarily) defining Jackís style in four wards. You can read about it over on the appropriate scroll.

Well, on to the mechanics of it all. It seems pretty good. Of course, one of the things that you didnít like (if Iím recalling correctly) about the 3e Duelist was the original Canny Defense, where the entire Intelligence bonus was added. If Jack Archer were to take levels in this, then at the next level up heíd gain +5 to Attack and AC -- permanently. Even with the first Canny Defense, the Int bonus was only applied when the character wasnít flatfooted. Perhaps what should be done is what WotC did with the 3.5 Duelist, and make the bonus progressive with levels?

I really like the three ability-based paths, of course. That, and the fact that the attack/AC bonus is also based on adding a new ability (or adding twice, in the case of Dexterity), really opens it up to other classes. Of course, not as much to clerics (or druids, but they canít use rapiers anyway), but right now I canít think of a path for a wisdom-based character. Canít even think of a real name for it, since the other three donít really have a pattern to their names. (Or if they do, Iím too dumb to see it at the moment.)

I do like the Knowledge (Swordsmanship) skill. Was it inspired by my Knowledge (Melee fighting)? Either way, itís less clumsy-sounding than mine, though I like the idea of choosing if the bonus goes to attack or defense. And, pardon my saying so, but it ought to take into account the skill level of the opponent. If, for instance, it were as it is here, and I replaced mine with yours on Jackís character sheet, heíd be getting the automatic success every time (minimum roll result of 16). Thatís like rolling the 25 you need for the overwhelming success.

I also like the idea of limiting it to swordsmen opponents, but if youíre being realistic, then it should apply for others as well. Though hardly as equal -- as I said, I liked the idea. Perhaps at least +5 to the DC for a weapon like a mace or an axe, and +10 for an unusual weapon (say, a spiked chain, or a whip). But thatís just a suggestion.

The only other thing I can think of is that Spot ought to be a class skill, in my opinion. I think someone like this would be pretty good at using his eyes. However, since most of that training would be with people, I guess Sense Motive would cover a lot of it.



Now, donít get me wrong. I like this PrC, I do indeed. And, as I suspect you were intending, Sage, I think Iíll switch my plans for taking a Duelist level for Jack over to Master of Defense. Iíll need to re-tweak his skill points, though. That Bluff requirement isnít something Iíd considered, but it makes sense to include it for a fencer anyway. However, that requirement for studying under and defeating a Master might be a bit hard, unless you donít mean right before taking the level.

Oh, and sorry for the long silence. I had a bunch of personal problems, which Iím certain no one is interested in hearing about anyway.

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2003 :  12:39:01  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Among the many interesting things that the Bookwyrm had to say, I'll start with this -
quote:
Iím highly impressed, especially at the research you did yourself.
That's part of the reason why it takes so long to get these PrC's finished and posted. Of the five PrC's that I currently have on my 'work-bench' only two are fully completed, and most were started over eight months ago.

Bookwyrm also said -
quote:
I do like the Knowledge (Swordsmanship) skill. Was it inspired by my Knowledge (Melee fighting)? Either way, itís less clumsy-sounding than mine, though I like the idea of choosing if the bonus goes to attack or defense.
Actually it was. You original skill was what I had started with, and combining it with my own ideas...this new skill was the end result. Although I am still not entirely happy with it overall, and I've deciced to make some changes.

More on what the Bookwyrm said -
quote:
I also like the idea of limiting it to swordsmen opponents, but if youíre being realistic, then it should apply for others as well.
Yes, that was one of the parts of the class I meant to change before I posted it here. This 'limitation' was strictly a campaign-based necessity, but overall any player or DM can change this easily. Anyway, I'm taking your suggestions under consideration for when I rework this class sometime next month.

The Bookwyrm had this to say -
quote:
The only other thing I can think of is that Spot ought to be a class skill, in my opinion. I think someone like this would be pretty good at using his eyes. However, since most of that training would be with people, I guess Sense Motive would cover a lot of it.

I had problems with this part, and to tell you the truth, I wasn't happy with the final product...but at the time I couldn't work up anything better. It will be 'reworked' in the new and slightly-revised Duelist class.

Again, the Bookwyrm said -
quote:
Now, donít get me wrong. I like this PrC, I do indeed. And, as I suspect you were intending, Sage, I think Iíll switch my plans for taking a Duelist level for Jack over to Master of Defense. Iíll need to re-tweak his skill points, though. That Bluff requirement isnít something Iíd considered, but it makes sense to include it for a fencer anyway. However, that requirement for studying under and defeating a Master might be a bit hard, unless you donít mean right before taking the level.
Again, this is something that I will be looking over for 'reworking' in the newer version. The requirement was an exclusive part of that particular FR campaign that I was running at the time. Also, don't feel like you have to change classes...I only really offered it up as an alternative for what you were proposing for Jack Archer. With all my original workings on this class, and the overall research...I didn't think I would have it finished in time for the start of the PBeM.

And finally -
quote:
Oh, and sorry for the long silence. I had a bunch of personal problems, which Iím certain no one is interested in hearing about anyway.
That's okay. Just remember, if you want to talk to someone...I'm only a short ethereal message away...


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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2003 :  09:00:00  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, that wasnít a hint or anything, just poking fun at myself. Suffice to say, it had to do with medication side-effects (which, in the interests of preserving this forumís PG rating, I will not list here), living with a sister who is most definitely Neutral Evil, and a father who seems to see me as his ďlegacy.Ē (His word.) Add that to some school and health problems, and you have one bad-tempered dragon on your hands. (Dragons, if I may remind you, donít like illness, at least when it happens to them. They also arenít of a trend to deal lightly with frustration.)

And then, of course, Iím finally making an attempt at learning to live behind the wheel of a car. If I had a neuron to spare to think of D&D behind that infernal contraption, Iíd be wishing for at least a ring of protection when Iím out on the road. Itís one of the most horrifying experiences I can imagine.

I was right, wasnít I? You didnít want to hear all of that.

Now, if I may, back on the subject of the scroll. Actually, Iíd been thinking that the Duelist PrC didnít get up to what I wanted for Jack, not totally, but I hadnít been able to think of a proper fix for it. I think that starting form this approach, with the PrC more in the nature of gaining certain feats and feat-like class features, might be a good way to do it. Iíd have to work on Jackís style a bit more before I could give you any suggestions, but thereís time -- which brings me to the other point.

You said it wouldnít be ready until after the PbeM started. Well, thereís hardly any problem with that. As you would see from the character sheet I sent you, the character only just makes it to the BAB prerequisite with nine levels. Four points from the Fighter levels, two from the Wizard. Just as with the Duelist PrC, Jackíd only be able to take it starting next level. That, Iím sure, would take a very long time in any game, much less a PbeM.

I was thinking of doing a little 11th hour revising anyway, though Iíd thought I was finally done with that. Iíll send the suggestions to you whenever I get off my duff.

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2003 :  09:26:02  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bookwyrm said -
quote:
You said it wouldnít be ready until after the PbeM started. Well, thereís hardly any problem with that. As you would see from the character sheet I sent you, the character only just makes it to the BAB prerequisite with nine levels. Four points from the Fighter levels, two from the Wizard. Just as with the Duelist PrC, Jackíd only be able to take it starting next level. That, Iím sure, would take a very long time in any game, much less a PbeM.
The 'revised-revised' version probably won't be ready, unless I can set aside a solid set of hours to sit down and work on it.

He also said -
quote:
I was thinking of doing a little 11th hour revising anyway, though Iíd thought I was finally done with that. Iíll send the suggestions to you whenever I get off my duff.
Great to hear. I'll also send you some 'revised' notes on the class...then maybe you can tailor the PrC to your own tastes, or at least fit the class with your own interpretation of Jack Archer.


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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe

Canada
647 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2003 :  09:33:44  Show Profile  Visit The Cardinal's Homepage  Send The Cardinal an AOL message  Send The Cardinal an ICQ Message  Click to see The Cardinal's MSN Messenger address  Send The Cardinal a Yahoo! Message Send The Cardinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Amazing how no matter how much one attempts to go out of their way the world continues to intrude upon them and inconvienience them eh Bookwyrm? I would like to say you have my sympathy....but I have been told on many occasions I that I have no sympathy, compassion, or empathy... Oh well.. the living are a waste of time anyways...
What was I going to say though....
Hmm.... It had something to do with the Duelist...
You know I got so carried away with what I was saying that I fogot my reason... Hmm oh well
The Master of Defence looks like an awesome class...And if I remember what my other point was I'll be sure to speak it...Hmmm..
*Wanders off in a cloud of befuddlement...*


It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2003 :  09:43:06  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
::Bookwyrm quietly slips his wand of befudlement back up his sleeve::

(I was wanting to do that anyway, after that Lloth comment you made earlier this night. )

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe

Canada
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Posted - 30 Dec 2003 :  09:51:23  Show Profile  Visit The Cardinal's Homepage  Send The Cardinal an AOL message  Send The Cardinal an ICQ Message  Click to see The Cardinal's MSN Messenger address  Send The Cardinal a Yahoo! Message Send The Cardinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jeez, make me attempt to remember why don't you... Hmmm... Was it the Victory to the Spider Queen, The Down with all gods except Lolth, or one of the others that I con't remember right now?


It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

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Posted - 30 Dec 2003 :  09:55:50  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not much difference between them all, you know. But in this case it was the one on the Chessenta scroll.

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe

Canada
647 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2003 :  10:01:40  Show Profile  Visit The Cardinal's Homepage  Send The Cardinal an AOL message  Send The Cardinal an ICQ Message  Click to see The Cardinal's MSN Messenger address  Send The Cardinal a Yahoo! Message Send The Cardinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Can I help it if Lolth is the only Deity worthy of respect?... After all it is Lolth's Drow who have had the longest Elvish Empire, It is Lolth's Drow that are the most feared. It is Lolth's Drow that through her teachings realise what really make sense... Can I help it if the rest of toril is a bunch of Deluded and lying fools? Besides, it's the Culture of the Drow not the Drow that I admire the most in the realms...


It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown

Edited by - The Cardinal on 30 Dec 2003 10:03:21
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Posted - 30 Dec 2003 :  11:21:56  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So then...you wouldn't be adverse to a PrC that I have been working on, especially for the Drow?.


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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe

Canada
647 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2003 :  17:41:12  Show Profile  Visit The Cardinal's Homepage  Send The Cardinal an AOL message  Send The Cardinal an ICQ Message  Click to see The Cardinal's MSN Messenger address  Send The Cardinal a Yahoo! Message Send The Cardinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Like I said sage it is the Culture and ideals of the Drow that I admire too many like the Drow cause of certian munchkins that are well known and a duelist class is more like...mmm.. an elitist class.. Elitist=Noblity Nobility=Power... hhmmm
So.... yes, of course I'm intrested. Always liked nobility... so arrogant, so full of pride.. kind like me... But I'm more humble... Sorry lost myself again. Please, what is this class you speak of?..


It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown
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The Sage
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Posted - 31 Dec 2003 :  06:42:03  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, without giving too much away, it has little to do with the worship of Lolth...and more to do with giving male Drow a different perspective with which to interpret the world around them (being the Underdark). Oh, and it's not a PrC that enhances Drow fighters, and/or warriors.

Although the class is still in the formative stages, I've had this idea ever since reading the Underdark tome...and that is the only hint that I will provide...


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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe

Canada
647 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2003 :  07:19:58  Show Profile  Visit The Cardinal's Homepage  Send The Cardinal an AOL message  Send The Cardinal an ICQ Message  Click to see The Cardinal's MSN Messenger address  Send The Cardinal a Yahoo! Message Send The Cardinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
AAAWWWWW!!!!!

Oh, being the Sage that you are I recommend the Jan. issue of Dragon... It has a lot (revisits and updates?) somethings on Campaigns I've hardly heard of Spelljamer, Hollow World, as well as alot more... AND *Takes out Protection from moderator Scroll * It holds somethings on Maztica.... Which reminds me sage.. I need help... I'm going to try and formulate a new Class (or a PrC).. I'm trying to base it upon my... *I loate to use this term but* heritage... which is ......Umm Sioux..... Anyways any pointers for creating a Class or PrC? Or if you've come across any classes like a member of the Tribe


It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown

Edited by - The Cardinal on 31 Dec 2003 07:30:03
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Bookwyrm
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USA
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Posted - 31 Dec 2003 :  07:27:13  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shame? That's quite possibly the strangest thing I've ever heard you say. Why shame?

And what exactly did you have in mind for this class?

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

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The Sage
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Posted - 31 Dec 2003 :  07:29:47  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, more details would be nice Cardinal.

As for pointers, well I just use Monte's guidelines, and my own imagination...

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The Sage
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Posted - 31 Dec 2003 :  07:35:53  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cardinal Deimos said -
quote:
Or if you've come across any classes like a member of the Tribe
I have. In fact, I designed a 'tribal-themed' PrC for my Sharn Warrior-caste tribes of the Arka'len Wastes, on Amasaria. With just a little work they could be given a 'Sioux' feel, or theme. Where do you intend to use the class?.

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Edited by - The Sage on 31 Dec 2003 07:36:53
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe

Canada
647 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2003 :  07:40:15  Show Profile  Visit The Cardinal's Homepage  Send The Cardinal an AOL message  Send The Cardinal an ICQ Message  Click to see The Cardinal's MSN Messenger address  Send The Cardinal a Yahoo! Message Send The Cardinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well perhaps Shame would be a harsh word.... but I'd rather be considered Whi...errr Cauasian than Sioux...or Overall Nat Amer. More to the Point I can pass it off as a Half-breed. But, While I am unsure of the status of ... those in the US (of which there are few) Up here they tend to be....disgraceful... to say the least. Don't get me wrong. I am proud of what my people were... but that was then.... now their... well there are equals all over the world. Slums, dives, ghettos... Up here their usually reserves... Sad truth, they usually look like third world countries but I ramble about things that should better be ignored... Anyways... the whole Idea of the Native belief system as Braves (if you wish to call them that) but more over Medicine Men. The healers of the Tribe are the class inparticular I'm intrested in. After Viewing the Maztica dealt with Inca and Aztec, I wonder if there might be a place for my own people. thus I feel a need to create a Divine (I know I dispise godslaves but i'm willing to bow to a caring god yet not illusioned one I.E. Lathander etc.). Those Monte Guidlines where can I find them?


It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe

Canada
647 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2003 :  07:48:20  Show Profile  Visit The Cardinal's Homepage  Send The Cardinal an AOL message  Send The Cardinal an ICQ Message  Click to see The Cardinal's MSN Messenger address  Send The Cardinal a Yahoo! Message Send The Cardinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well as for using the Class, that has yet to be seen. I'll see if I can get ahold of my old gaming group to see if we can get a game together... (the Mercs seem to have split up recently due to... well Internal strife in a party spilith over to strife between players) Haven't gamed in.... months.. all my books, ideas, and game thoughts are under pure hope alone and my oddly draconic need to collect and horde(book might Know what I mean being a dragon himself )... Most of my only options are NWN and the BG series... Constrained as they are they are all I have to the door of both Faerun and D&D at this time .. But I must be content with those... lest I go mad... as there are no other options


It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown

Edited by - The Cardinal on 31 Dec 2003 07:49:29
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The Sage
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Posted - 31 Dec 2003 :  07:49:46  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The guidelines were originally written up on the boards on Monte Cook's site, but it appears as though he's removed a lot of the last few months worth of posts to the forums. I'll just email what I have to you instead.


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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 31 Dec 2003 07:50:38
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe

Canada
647 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2003 :  07:57:28  Show Profile  Visit The Cardinal's Homepage  Send The Cardinal an AOL message  Send The Cardinal an ICQ Message  Click to see The Cardinal's MSN Messenger address  Send The Cardinal a Yahoo! Message Send The Cardinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Many thanks Sage. I am indebted to you. I'll see what if it's what I'm looking for, and perchance. If I do come up with anything that is remotely original, then i will post it incase any others are intrested... Doubt it though most people aren't intrested in counquered people but hey, one never knows


It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown
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