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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 16:28:07
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My belief (HB) has it where there are Avatars of varying power, which require different levels of 'sacrifice' (power/DvR) to create. This is somewhat canon, in that we had lesser manifestations (what most folks would simply refer to as "a sign"), Avatars (exarch-class simulcrums), and Greater Manifestations (self-aware simulcrums, designed with a specific purpose in-mind, and completely separated from the creating deity's awareness and power). The Greater Manifestations are the manifestations discussed in the Mulan section of P&P (IIRC).
What I think is that there are even more divisions amongst them - ones created for very specific purposes - and that it would be impossible to categorize them all (since every deity has the ability to customize these things).
Suppose DvR could be represented by 'Divine Power Points', with each divine rank = 10 points. Ergo, a DvR 10 deity would have 100 points. A 'regular' avatar might cost 10 points to create (thus replicating the existing system), but it should also be possible to create 7 point Avatar, or EVEN a 30 point avatar - it simply means the deity is investing more time and power into that one incarnation. Lesser manifestations ("signs of the gods") would only require one DPP to maintain (which the deity gets-back the moment the manifestation has ended).
So when you think of it in those terms (and it is probably WAY more complicated then that), you can see how it would be impossible to classify 'everything divine' - gods are constantly creating things from their own being (power/DvR), and absorbing them back, and it is different for each and every instance.
On-Topic
As this pertains to the thread, it means that some 'higher being' - usually a deity but possibly something else - invests part of its own divine power into a mortal to create a demi-power (Chosen, or Exarch in 4e parlance). This is the normal route such things take, but as we have seen numerous times, other avenues are available for ascendance, and mortals can even skip right over the 'demi-' part (although I would think it should take at least an overgod to create a greater god, unless said being was relinquishing all or most of their own divinity).). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Mar 2012 16:43:08 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 17:23:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Malyk (alias that Talos subsumed)
Mellifleur (deity of liches that Velsharoon subsumed as an alias)
HB?
Malyk, from the Talos entry in the 2nd edition Faiths and Avatars I think, but in some reference it gave that he was a drow magic who became a god using wild magic. Google helped me find this "Followers claim that their god was an aged, powerful Sshamathan drow lich who stole some of Mystra's power when he stumbled across a powerful wild magic region in the Underdark beneath Castle Crag." Not sure if its canon
Mellifleur is from monster mythology |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 21:53:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So when you think of it in those terms (and it is probably WAY more complicated then that), you can see how it would be impossible to classify 'everything divine' - gods are constantly creating things from their own being (power/DvR), and absorbing them back, and it is different for each and every instance.
-And the fact that their power is regularly waxing and waning. You have Selūne, whose power it is said- I don't like the concept too much, mathematically or whatever you want to call it- waxes and wanes with the phases of the moon. More quantifiable, you have, say, a cult of Shar flushed out and killed. While in the grand scheme of things it's a minimal loss for her, it does effect her overall 'divine power'. If you had something like that happen with a deity who has a lot less followers, the impact is going to be a lot more observable. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 00:12:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
On-Topic
As this pertains to the thread, it means that some 'higher being' - usually a deity but possibly something else - invests part of its own divine power into a mortal to create a demi-power (Chosen, or Exarch in 4e parlance). This is the normal route such things take, but as we have seen numerous times, other avenues are available for ascendance, and mortals can even skip right over the 'demi-' part (although I would think it should take at least an overgod to create a greater god, unless said being was relinquishing all or most of their own divinity).).
Or maybe the deities find it more convenient, less energy-draining to 'alter' an existing living thing than 'create' a new one. I (loosely) base this on the Valheru in Feist's novels. They are god-like beings, some neutral, some chaotic. But unlike the gods, they cannot create new life forms, but they can 'improve' them, like giving intelligence to the tigers, which in turn became tigermen. (Hmm, come to think of it, perhaps in this regard, the gods are far mightier than the Valheru.) |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
499 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 01:59:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
[quote]Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
They didn't think it was necessary to create their avatars with 60 HD.
I'm looking for a rule-wise explanation...  |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
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Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 17:48:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
I'm looking for a rule-wise explanation...
Why would there be one?
You do realise that the D&D rules cannot possibly be an accurate model of the reality of the campaign setting? It's simply the imperfect analogy that we use to represent it.
The actual metaphysics of gods creating avatars is likely rather more complex than 'god of power X can create Y number'. The relative power of the avatar compared with the power of the god, the distance spanned in physical and metaphysical terms, the importance of the task assigned to the portfolio of the god, etc. all probably have an impact there, even if the game rules don't bother with modelling it and assume that it all evens out on average.
It makes perfect sense that gods would place different emphasis on the personal combat power of their avatars. Some wouldn't care much, others would devote a lot of their essence to making their avatars perfect representations of death incarnate. |
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Edited by - Icelander on 14 Mar 2012 17:48:55 |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
499 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 20:59:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
[quote]Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
You do realise that the D&D rules cannot possibly be an accurate model of the reality of the campaign setting? It's simply the imperfect analogy that we use to represent it.
The actual metaphysics of gods creating avatars is likely rather more complex than 'god of power X can create Y number'. The relative power of the avatar compared with the power of the god, the distance spanned in physical and metaphysical terms, the importance of the task assigned to the portfolio of the god, etc. all probably have an impact there, even if the game rules don't bother with modelling it and assume that it all evens out on average.
It makes perfect sense that gods would place different emphasis on the personal combat power of their avatars. Some wouldn't care much, others would devote a lot of their essence to making their avatars perfect representations of death incarnate.
Well, what's the point in the Realms being a D&D Campaign setting if it doesn't fit the campaign setting? That's like saying gasoline car engines don't run on gasoline. I'm not looking for speculation about how the gods rule themselves as much as why the formerly mortal deities don't have extra class HD while deities who have been such their whole existences have 20 outsider HD. I mean, Azuth is a lesser deity, formerly mortal, and he has as much HD as Mystra, who's a greater deity and also formerly mortal!  |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
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Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 21:20:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Well, what's the point in the Realms being a D&D Campaign setting if it doesn't fit the campaign setting?
-Because D&D, as a ruleset (1e, 2e, 3e, 4e, soon 5e) is not complex enough to capture the intricacies that are involved. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 21:24:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Well, what's the point in the Realms being a D&D Campaign setting if it doesn't fit the campaign setting? That's like saying gasoline car engines don't run on gasoline.
To me, at least, it seems that the job of the rules system is to run stories that emulate the preferred stories of the customers.
If the rules set does poorly at emulating the setting, which existed before the rules set and has existed through several complete re-hauls of the rules, I'd say that this reflects a design flaw in the system.
If someone designs a Middle Earth RPG that is very poor at modelling Tolkien-ian fiction, that's just poor game design. Has nothing to do with the quality of the setting.
The poor fit of D&D mechanics to the majority of good fantasy out there is why I don't use D&D to run my fantasy games, whether they are set in the Realms or not.
The D&D rules are not necessarily bad at what they do, but the feel conveyed by using D&D mechanics is less heroic fantasy than tactical superhero combat. Which is unfortunate, because if one were to judge by D&D fiction and settings, that is not the feel that the artistic direction is aiming for in their source material.
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
I'm not looking for speculation about how the gods rule themselves as much as why the formerly mortal deities don't have extra class HD while deities who have been such their whole existences have 20 outsider HD. I mean, Azuth is a lesser deity, formerly mortal, and he has as much HD as Mystra, who's a greater deity and also formerly mortal!
The stats are for avatars, right? So they represent a tiny fraction of the deity's power, bound in a form that they are known to favour.
Why would the power of the form that they favour using for interaction with mortals necessarily correlate with the power of the deity or its specific origin?
That's like expecting the wax seal that nobles use for their correspondance to correspond in size or thickness to the wealth or political power of the noble. Or worse, his personal size and girth.
Also, your example is a bit flawed. The modern 'Mystra' used to be a mortal mage of modest level, named 'Midnight'. Apparently, she still favours an avatar that reminds her of that form. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 21:25:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Well, what's the point in the Realms being a D&D Campaign setting if it doesn't fit the campaign setting?
-Because D&D, as a ruleset (1e, 2e, 3e, 4e, soon 5e) is not complex enough to capture the intricacies that are involved.
Added to which, no rule set ever will be, which is why the GM always has to exercise his judgment. |
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Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 21:31:38
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That the rules are an approximation of a fantasy setting is true, but this fact doesnt really speak to Galufs question. (I.e. meta-answers to specific, targeted questions arent always helpful.)
Likewise, the fact that the Web Enhancement for Faiths and Pantheons indicates DMs must adjust avatar stats up and down to fit the scale of power in their game (something I thought about mentioning earlier) doesnt speak to Galufs question.
In terms of their presentation the deity avatar stats were written up with a scale of balance between them in mind. I think Galuf feels this scale (or baseline) is off.
Of the two main authors for Faiths and Pantheons, I dont know if its possible to contact Erik Mona over at Paizo, but perhaps he can shed some light on why they did what they did. Not sure if Eric Boyd is answering questions here at Candlekeep or not.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 21:37:57
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What does, I think, speak rather more directly to his question is that gods can create avatars of greater or lesser power than those listed. The listed ones are a matter of preference, not immutable law.
So there doesn't have to be any rules-based answer. No more than there has to be a rules-based answer for why one NPC prefers red and another purple. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 22:11:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
What does, I think, speak rather more directly to his question is that gods can create avatars of greater or lesser power than those listed. The listed ones are a matter of preference, not immutable law.
However (if Im reading Galufs question right), once you get past a certain number of hit dice, an avatar should start adding class levels (if the deity had them as a mortal) to whatever number of hit dice form the deity chooses to manifest in.
@Galuf, am I reading you right, in regards to class levels a deity had in life? Were you referring to deities in general and not just avatars?
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 14 Mar 2012 22:25:13 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 22:20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
However (if Im reading Galufs question right), once you get past a certain number of hit dice, an avatar should start adding class levels (if the deity had them as a mortal) to whatever number of hit dice form the deity chooses to manifest in.
Why?
A deity could take on the avatar form of a 100 HD table if it really wanted. Doesn't matter what they were in life.
I'll agree that what the deities were in life appears to have a very strong influence on their personality and preferences, but that's no reason to expect it to directly affect the HD or class mix of avatars. If the DM thinks that a given avatar form doesn't suit the personality he believes the deity has, he'll have to change it. |
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Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 22:35:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Why?
A deity could take on the avatar form of a 100 HD table if it really wanted. Doesn't matter what they were in life.
If youre going by the rules, even allowing for adjustments by the DM (provided that DM wants his or her players to be able to challenge the deities), then no, a deity cant take on the form of a 100 HD table.
Faiths and Pantheons (including the web supplement) makes it pretty clear to DMs that they have a choice. They can choose to make deities unassailable and impossible to kill or they can allow for the possibility that characters can confront and slay the gods themselves.
If they choose the latter option, DMs are strongly encouraged to take a look at the power level of the characters in the campaign and adjust the stats for avatars and the deities themselves up or down, as needed for the best possible challenge in a combat scenario.
Once you do that, youre operating within the rules of the game. The rules present the typical Avatar form deities take. It's fair to assume you'd advance a mortal to deity form by adding in his/her class levels to whatever HD they gain from being a deity (I'm not terribly well versed on the 3rd Edition Deity rules...it's been a long time), which I think is what Galuf expects to see when he opens up Faiths and Avatars.
Ill be stepping away from this conversation until I see word from Gulaf. I think all the relevant points have been made (and are starting to be repeated) and the various positions staked out.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
499 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 22:55:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
[quote]Originally posted by Icelander
@Galuf, am I reading you right, in regards to class levels a deity had in life? Were you referring to deities in general and not just avatars?
Yes and yes. I'm not as concerned about their avatars as the entries for deities themselves in the style of Faiths & Pantheons. |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 23:01:46
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Ah, OK.
It sounds to me, Gulaf, like you're expecting to see deity write-ups that are presented like those for monsters in the monster manual? Specifically, like how you might find a write-up for an advanced/unique monster (one with more monster HD than normal plus some class levels)?
If yes, does it state anywhere in F&P that the deity write-ups found therein follow the Monster Manual format? Does it say anything about former class levels being added in to any levels in a particular class that the deity has?
Again, its been a long time (like nine years since the book was published) so I just dont remember.
Wheres Mirtek when you need him?
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
499 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 00:34:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Ah, OK.
It sounds to me, Gulaf, like you're expecting to see deity write-ups that are presented like those for monsters in the monster manual? Specifically, like how you might find a write-up for an advanced/unique monster (one with more monster HD than normal plus some class levels)?
Well, yes, essentially.
quote:
If yes, does it state anywhere in F&P that the deity write-ups found therein follow the Monster Manual format? Does it say anything about former class levels being added in to any levels in a particular class that the deity has?
Again, its been a long time (like nine years since the book was published) so I just dont remember.
I've been searching, but haven't found anything yet.
quote:
Wheres Mirtek when you need him?
Unless he's lurking, he hasn't posted anything in about 3 years.  |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 14:13:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Ah, OK.
It sounds to me, Gulaf, like you're expecting to see deity write-ups that are presented like those for monsters in the monster manual? Specifically, like how you might find a write-up for an advanced/unique monster (one with more monster HD than normal plus some class levels)?
Well, yes, essentially.
While Faiths and Pantheons doesn't appear to state so outright, the stats given there represent deific avatars, not the actual essences of the deities. Yes, these 'avatars' are more powerful than the avatars they regularly send to the Prime Material, but they are still not the true form of the god.
In light of the fact that much prior lore states that anything more than demi-gods would obliterate mortals were they to appear to them in their full might*, I think that the basic D&D rules are not all that suitable for statting gods in their 'real' forms.
Gods could be statted out fully, I guess. You'd just have to account for the fact that they are composed of belief and divine energy, not physical matter. Their HD, class abilities and other such external factors are something they assume with their powers, not true characteristics of the deities.
In terms of many RPGs, they have a pool of potential energy** that they can expend on physical materialisations, the granting of miracles and spells, dreams and visions to worshippers, control over their deific realms and many other godly powers. Any physical form they occupy represents only a part of their true essence and in the case of a physical form meant to interact with mortals, generally only a tiny part.
*Or other fates about equivalent.
**Renewed periodically by some metaphysical factors, most likely worship, propiation, advancement of portfolios, tithe from allied divinities, etc. |
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Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 15 Mar 2012 14:15:21 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 14:22:07
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You want deities to be uber-monsters you can kill?
can I just ask (to anyone who enjoys this sort of thing) WHY it has to be Gods? Couldn't there be epic-level beasties (like the Terrasque, Arch-fiends, etc) that can be used in precisely the same way?
Or does a being actually have to be called 'a god' for you to to have fulfilled some sort of greater need?
Seriously... I just don't understand why an epic monster - even a unique - can't fit the exact same purpose. Why do people need stats for gods? Is it the fact that the DM has a toy he can hurt you with, that you can't hurt back?
Because I don't need deities to spank my players - I can do that with a random lightening bolt.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 15:19:59
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Why bag on other people's play styles, Markus?
I've run games where players went up against (seriously de-powered) avatars of Orcus and Kiaransalee. Modified City of the Spider Queen to do it.
This doesn't mean I or my players had some secondary "need" we wanted to fulfill.
We were just doing what we'd already been doing throughout the campaign: having fun.
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Well, yes, essentially. ... I've been searching, but haven't found anything yet.
Unfortunately I didnt get a chance to read F&P last night (went to dance lessons with the fiancé insteadI hope Im as spry as some of those 60 year olds boogying down on the dance floor when Im there age).
My thoughts are that any class levels the deity might have had as a mortal are already reflected in its write-ups. If a deity was a 10th level fighter in life before ascending (for example) and it has twenty levels of fighter as s deity, ten of those levels came from when it was a mortal.
<casts Summon Mirtek just to see if anything happens>
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 15 Mar 2012 15:25:42 |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
499 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 16:55:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You want deities to be uber-monsters you can kill?
can I just ask (to anyone who enjoys this sort of thing) WHY it has to be Gods? Couldn't there be epic-level beasties (like the Terrasque, Arch-fiends, etc) that can be used in precisely the same way?
Or does a being actually have to be called 'a god' for you to to have fulfilled some sort of greater need?
Seriously... I just don't understand why an epic monster - even a unique - can't fit the exact same purpose. Why do people need stats for gods? Is it the fact that the DM has a toy he can hurt you with, that you can't hurt back?
Because I don't need deities to spank my players - I can do that with a random lightening bolt.
Well, I thought there were some inconsistencies with the way the deities' stats were written in F&P. I would hope to get some understanding of sorts to correct them, if possible, and make them more accurate to the way they are. The way a few of the deities who were formerly mortal, namely Torm & Uthgar, don't quite seem to reflect their former mortal being compared to Azuth, Bane, Cyric and Midnight/Mystra.
Besides, knowing me, I'm only looking to fill up gaps in the rules like I do with alot of the other creative threads I've made on Candlekeep. I mean, the Cleric Domains I've made? Heralds & Allies for the Realms deities? I'm just trying to give 3.5 edition players more homebrew options and clarify some inconsistencies.  |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
499 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 01:29:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-If you're looking to make stuff yourself, this should help: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-111306.html
Thank you. 
I take it that's a format to cut, paste and modify the details to make due for each deity? |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 02:45:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-If you're looking to make stuff yourself, this should help: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-111306.html
Thank you.
I take it that's a format to cut, paste and modify the details to make due for each deity?
-I didn't look through the whole thing, but it's a bunch of deities that people statted out by the rules. At some point, Forgotten Realms ones might have been done. If nothing else, it gives a sense of comparison for how other deities would/should be written up. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
499 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 16:44:43
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| I saw Tempus & Corellon Larethian in there, however it's not quite what I envisioned them as. Tempus I saw as a Fighter 20/Barbarian 10/Swordsage 10 or Fighter 20/Swordsage 20. Corellon Larethian, at least in the sense of how he is in Faerun struck me more as a Duskblade 20/Wizard 24/Elven High Mage 5. Granted, I'm going more by standard 3.5 Edition rules, since I'm still studying Pathfinder rules; haven't quite grasped a hold of it yet. |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
499 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2012 : 01:57:31
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Anyways, so here's what I thought would be appropriate levels for the formerly mortal deities I mentioned that were under 60+ HD, including some not presented at all in F&P:
- Bhaal: Rogue 20/Fighter 20/Assassin 10/Blackguard 10
- Deep Duerra: Fighter 20/Psion 20/Psychic Warrior 15/War Mind (XPH) 5
- Gwaeron Windstrom: Ranger 20/Fighter 20/Giant Hunter (MotW) 10/Giant-Killer (SM) 10
- Kelemvor: Fighter 20/Cleric 20/Rogue 10/Hunter of the Dead (CW) 10
- Myrkul: Necromancer 15/Dread Necromancer 20/Cleric 6/Archmage 5/True Necromancer (LM) 14
- Torm: Paladin 20/Knight 20 (PHB2)/Fighter 12/Cleric 8
- Uthgar: Barbarian 20/Ranger 20/Druid 10/Frenzied Berserker (CW) 10
- Velsharoon: Necromancer 20/Cleric 20/Red Wizard 10/Archmage 5/True Necromancer 5
More to come later. |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2012 : 16:58:01
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| -Anyone else agree, I've always felt giving things like deities Levels was kind of no reason to? Hit Dice, stats, powers, whatever, if one wants to give them stats, but traditional levels? Nah, never really got it. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 20 Mar 2012 16:58:40 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 17:22:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Anyone else agree, I've always felt giving things like deities Levels was kind of no reason to? Hit Dice, stats, powers, whatever, if one wants to give them stats, but traditional levels? Nah, never really got it.
I agree here... although I've been tempted to ask WotC for the stats of the Spellplague, so my overpowered 2e party (eight PCs all over 20th level) can kill it...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Deities who were once mortal?
