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varyar
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 13:23:14
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I was wondering - have Dragonbait's kin ever appeared in any novels outside of the ones written by Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak? They've been on Toril for a while now, so one or two besides our favorite reptilian paladin might have left the Lost Vale. Any sightings of the sauriels in novel form?
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 13:29:15
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| I saw a Bladeback in Starbucks this morning getting a Venti Soy Macchiato Latte. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 13:47:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
I saw a Bladeback in Starbucks this morning getting a Venti Soy Macchiato Latte.
For some reason i always imagined the Saurials enjoying Pumpkin Spice latte's |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1267 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 14:29:48
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I haven't...I imagine they stick to the Lost Vale and mind their business. They would look like lizard men to the untrained eye, although Dragonbait never seemed to be attacked on sight anywhere.
For the current novels - Who knows if they survived the (awfully implemented) 4th Edition Changes either? Maybe they have been retconned out of existance. Too bad, they are an interesting concept and I love the Finder's Stone trilogy. |
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varyar
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 16:26:28
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| Sounds like they've been pretty quiet. Excellent. ::cackle:: |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 18:19:10
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| In 4E, the saurials have been kicked out of the renamed (for no readily apparent reason) Lost Dale, also called Tarkahldale. It was, of course, Shade that did this. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Feb 2012 18:21:24 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 20:33:59
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Homeless Saurials? 
So now I picture Dragonbait (and the rest) standing on the side of the road holding up signs that read "Will work for dino-pellets". 
If I were to use them in the 4e time-frame (which I never intend to do), I'd say they found themselves a portal (and were probably directed there by Elminster) and went to Chult. They fit there nicely.
If you want the homebrew I do use:
The Suarials are part of the Sauroid Creator Race. The Sarrukh - the ruling class - eventually wanted to be rid of the rest, and forced them (either chased or exiled) them to 'another world' - the Saurial Homeworld we see Elminster visit. A small fragment of this group still survives today in the Malatra region (this part is canon), so the Sarrukh were evidently not as thorough as they think they were.
With the advent of 4e, I added this: The Saurial Homeworld is actual Abeir... the Saurials didn't really get very far at all. They never even left Realmspace. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 21:16:23
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| I think i might be a saurial because sometimes i communicate via smell too...usually after a giant plate of super-nachos |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 00:17:54
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Dragonbait would determine you were 'evil' with his Paladin sensibilities.
Or maybe just your bowels are evil. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 00:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Homeless Saurials?
They're not really homeless.
They were driven underground, however. Though, being the resourceful folk they are, I'm sure the saurials will quickly make a new home beneath the Dalelands. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 05:44:39
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| They are subterranean saurials now? I'm sure I don't care, but where were all of these radical changes detailed? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 05:54:05
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| I must've missed it. Quite honestly, I am surprised they were given that much. A quiet bunch, good neighbors. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 21:36:11
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-Sauriels were also featured in either Finder's Bane or Tymora's Luck (Want to say the first one), but those were still Grubb/Novak books.
-I want to say that they were mentioned, or alluded to in the Return of the Archmages books, but I might be wrong. Even if they were, it was not in any kind of relevant way.
Mod edit: Corrected the coding on the italics.  |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Feb 2012 02:11:13 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 00:49:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I want to say that they were mentioned, or alluded to in the Return of the Archmages books, but I might be wrong. Even if they were, it was not in any kind of relevant way.
I'm not so sure about that. I re-read the trilogy about a year ago [looking to compile what few Realms music tidbits were contained within], and I don't recall even the remotest reference to the saurials. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 02:10:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I want to say that they were mentioned, or alluded to in the Return of the Archmages books, but I might be wrong. Even if they were, it was not in any kind of relevant way.
I'm not so sure about that. I re-read the trilogy about a year ago [looking to compile what few Realms music tidbits were contained within], and I don't recall even the remotest reference to the saurials.
Ditto. I've not re-read the trilogy that recently, though, and plan to continue that trend. My feelings on that trilogy are well-known by now, I think. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 02:14:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Sauriels were also featured in either Finder's Bane or Tymora's Luck (Want to say the first one), but those were still Grubb/Novak books.
Pretty sure it was Finder's Bane. Joel and friends went there, prior to journeying into the planes. Tymora's Luck was entirely set in the planes, as I recall, with the exception of the interludes (which mostly focused on the many Wyvernspur kids).
I'm also pretty sure that in Finder's Bane, it was mentioned that an illusion kept the Lost Vale from being seen from the air... Which further makes me wonder just how Shade saw it. Why they decided to take it over is also, as I recall, never mentioned. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Feb 2012 02:14:44 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 03:31:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I want to say that they were mentioned, or alluded to in the Return of the Archmages books, but I might be wrong. Even if they were, it was not in any kind of relevant way.
I'm not so sure about that. I re-read the trilogy about a year ago [looking to compile what few Realms music tidbits were contained within], and I don't recall even the remotest reference to the saurials.
Ditto. I've not re-read the trilogy that recently, though, and plan to continue that trend. My feelings on that trilogy are well-known by now, I think.
I've been re-reading a lot of the older books, lately, so that I can pick up on any musically-related Realmslore references that I might have missed during my initial readings.
I think I'll be moving on to the various "Moonshae" books next. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 03:34:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Sauriels were also featured in either Finder's Bane or Tymora's Luck (Want to say the first one), but those were still Grubb/Novak books.
Pretty sure it was Finder's Bane. Joel and friends went there, prior to journeying into the planes. Tymora's Luck was entirely set in the planes, as I recall, with the exception of the interludes (which mostly focused on the many Wyvernspur kids).
I'm also pretty sure that in Finder's Bane, it was mentioned that an illusion kept the Lost Vale from being seen from the air... Which further makes me wonder just how Shade saw it. Why they decided to take it over is also, as I recall, never mentioned.
Well, the Shade have an established tendency toward employing groundling shadow-agents to infiltrate secret locales.
It's not too much of a stretch to assume that while the Shade have been busy subduing surrounding environs, that they came across reference to the Lost Vale and the saurial race, and then charged their agents with finding a path into the Vale and securing it for the Empire's interests. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 05:49:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Sauriels were also featured in either Finder's Bane or Tymora's Luck (Want to say the first one), but those were still Grubb/Novak books.
Pretty sure it was Finder's Bane. Joel and friends went there, prior to journeying into the planes. Tymora's Luck was entirely set in the planes, as I recall, with the exception of the interludes (which mostly focused on the many Wyvernspur kids).
I'm also pretty sure that in Finder's Bane, it was mentioned that an illusion kept the Lost Vale from being seen from the air... Which further makes me wonder just how Shade saw it. Why they decided to take it over is also, as I recall, never mentioned.
Well, the Shade have an established tendency toward employing groundling shadow-agents to infiltrate secret locales.
It's not too much of a stretch to assume that while the Shade have been busy subduing surrounding environs, that they came across reference to the Lost Vale and the saurial race, and then charged their agents with finding a path into the Vale and securing it for the Empire's interests.
I'm not sure what interests the Shades would have there... Having a hidden strongpoint doesn't seem their style, and there's really no reason for them to seize an isolated locale full of critters that just want to be left alone. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 06:25:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm not so sure about that. I re-read the trilogy about a year ago [looking to compile what few Realms music tidbits were contained within], and I don't recall even the remotest reference to the saurials.
-Well, nix that then. Maybe I am crazy, but I do recall a vague reference to Saurials and/or the Lost Vale in some trilogy series from the early-to-mid 3e era. Nothing more than a throw-away line, but something that gives books as a whole 'connectivity', in so much as it makes books feel more connected to the world as a whole.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not sure what interests the Shades would have there... Having a hidden strongpoint doesn't seem their style, and there's really no reason for them to seize an isolated locale full of critters that just want to be left alone.
-Just knowing/learning about it might be reason enough, theoretically. If you're planning and plotting regional domination or whatever, you want to leave no stone uncovered, leave no variable unknown. Also, it is/was a magical place, and could have theoretically been home to Netherese artifacts that we know they were poking around for when they first came back. Maybe, upon first hearing of a magical valley filled with monster lizards, they thought it was the secret valley filled dinosaurs in the Star Peaks that the Shadovar targeted in Son of Thunder because of the Netherese magic supporting it. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 26 Feb 2012 06:30:58 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 06:30:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Sauriels were also featured in either Finder's Bane or Tymora's Luck (Want to say the first one), but those were still Grubb/Novak books.
Pretty sure it was Finder's Bane. Joel and friends went there, prior to journeying into the planes. Tymora's Luck was entirely set in the planes, as I recall, with the exception of the interludes (which mostly focused on the many Wyvernspur kids).
I'm also pretty sure that in Finder's Bane, it was mentioned that an illusion kept the Lost Vale from being seen from the air... Which further makes me wonder just how Shade saw it. Why they decided to take it over is also, as I recall, never mentioned.
Well, the Shade have an established tendency toward employing groundling shadow-agents to infiltrate secret locales.
It's not too much of a stretch to assume that while the Shade have been busy subduing surrounding environs, that they came across reference to the Lost Vale and the saurial race, and then charged their agents with finding a path into the Vale and securing it for the Empire's interests.
I'm not sure what interests the Shades would have there... Having a hidden strongpoint doesn't seem their style, and there's really no reason for them to seize an isolated locale full of critters that just want to be left alone.
I'd imagine the interests of the Shade in the Lost Vale would concern the portal that links back to the saurial homeworld. It could be either a new locale for them to pillage strangely powerful and/or otherworldly arcane artifacts from... or a potential entry point for greater numbers of new creatures to come into Faerūn and counter the Empire's plans for expansion in the region.
...
Now that I'm thinking about this, I'm curious about the briefly referenced state of the saurials in the 4e Realms. Why didn't some of them use the portal to return to their homeworld? Did the Shadovar somehow prevent the saurials from accessing such an escape route? Or perhaps their shadow-magic collapsed the gate... thus stranding the saurials, once more, on Toril?
I'm going to tinker with this, and try to come up with a new explanation for the state of the saurials in the 4e Realms. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 10:53:26
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There was a throwaway mention in The Maelstrom (Cloakmaster Cycle):
quote:
I used to think that a lizard was a lizard, you know, but then I saw that there were as many types of them as there are of people like us. I met some trogs once, not very friendly ones at that, and, wow, did they ever stink. It was incredible. Then I met dracons, saurials, sithp'k, and, of course, the wasag, like that little blue guy over there.
- Gaeadrelle Goldring
Doesn't necessarily means they were in wildspace, given that she "studied art of some kind" in "some place called Kozakura".  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 11:54:09
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| I think Saurials have been usurped by the Dragonborn in the current realms so there is not much hope of seeing them again. Frankly you hardly even hear anything about Finder. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 19:48:54
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| It really makes you wonder why they bothered to mention them at all in 4e. Weird. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 22:16:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It really makes you wonder why they bothered to mention them at all in 4e. Weird.
To make old fans curious...
---
I find dragonborn redundant. How many creatures must be descended from dragonkind? |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 26 Feb 2012 22:17:58 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 22:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It really makes you wonder why they bothered to mention them at all in 4e. Weird.
-So no one can accuse anyone else of forgetting about them. "Blah, blah, blah, something vaguely referencing Saurials, blah, blah, blah" looks better than nothing and, "OMG! They don't even know that a highly secretive society of sentient saurials live in the area! Do these people do their homework? Do they know anything!?"
-Also, maybe as an easter egg. Most things in the past ten, twenty years don't really mention Saurials at all. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 26 Feb 2012 22:27:21 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 22:52:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It really makes you wonder why they bothered to mention them at all in 4e. Weird.
I think it was more to make the Shades even more prominent, as opposed to anything else. The Lost Vale and its people have never been all that prominent in published Realmslore... Hardly anyone in-setting knows about them, and until the Shades somehow found it, it was nearly impossible for anyone to find the Lost Vale. I, personally, find it unlikely the Shades would have had any real interest in finding the Lost Vale, and I find it even more unlikely they could have found it when no one else could. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:27:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It really makes you wonder why they bothered to mention them at all in 4e. Weird.
I think it was more to make the Shades even more prominent, as opposed to anything else. The Lost Vale and its people have never been all that prominent in published Realmslore... Hardly anyone in-setting knows about them, and until the Shades somehow found it, it was nearly impossible for anyone to find the Lost Vale. I, personally, find it unlikely the Shades would have had any real interest in finding the Lost Vale, and I find it even more unlikely they could have found it when no one else could.
The Shades have spent centuries expertly mastering the understanding of remaining hidden on another plane. I'd expect they'd have some inkling about what to look for when it comes to portals connecting other worlds in mysterious lost vales.
I do agree that it shouldn't have been an easy discovery, though. Perhaps either by chance, or hinted speculation arising from some other undertaking in the surrounding environs of the Lost Vale.
It's noted that while the saurials don't have many connections to the world outside the Vale, they do have a number of young among them who have been cautioned by the elders for wandering beyond the limits of the Lost Vale. And it's likely that these saurial wanderers are the cause for the increased "tales and legends" of dragon/dinosaur-like folk pervading surrounding cultures. An agent of the Shade could have overheard these legends, or encountered a youngling saurial wanderer, and then sought to discover where they came from.
Regardless, I see that portal to the saurial homeworld in the Lost Vale being a major arcane element that would draw the interest of the Shadovar. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Sauriel sightings?
