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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 09:02:31
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I didn't want to clutter up Erik's scroll with discussions of cover art and what we think drow should look like so I thought to start a scroll where people can link to good pics. I've seen a lot out there, ranging from great to horrible. I hear alot of Scribes say that they don't like the "donkey ear" look that is prevalent, but I kind of do. I've seen some good stuff at deviantart. Also drowtales has some good stuff. A lot of it is pretty risque and I wouldn't post it here. Anyway, I'd love to see what everyone thinks a drow "should" look like. Keep em' clean. I'll go through my files and post a few later.
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Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 16 Feb 2012 09:05:17
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 09:24:29
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I'd like to see some new portrayals of elves in general. I should take a deeper look at deviantart, I've only wandered a little and only when looking for images of some other thing takes me there. I will say that deviantart has some amazing artists, and I think picking from them (though maybe not solely from them) would be a move in the right direction. Alternatively, make nice with Mr DiTerlizzi again... that would be cool too. Personally, I'm getting tired of the smudges that have been called art lately.
I'm hoping that drow will be recognizably elven, perhaps with sharper lines. Less softness. I think making visual connections between them lends something good to the role-playing, to highlight the mental/emotional difficulty they have in being civilized with one another.
So I haven't seen the images you're referring to, yet, but I'll look for them. At first glance "donkey ears" sounds like wow's night elves, but I'm curious. |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 09:28:45
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I'm fond of the work of DarrkestDrow, over on dA, and Gold-Seven (Jenny Dolfen), who also has a bit of drow art there.
Also, this piece - this particular drow pic definitely seems to have got the surliness down pat.
Plus some Silly Expression Time with Dinin
And one last one, this one is awesome and I've pointed to it before to a friend and gone 'This. My drow looks a bit like this. (Just with a higher forehead.)' |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 09:30:55
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@ xaeyruuudh - Like this one that is/was my avatar. I keep meaning to get back to Big Al about that.
*Note: all pics are the property of their artists. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 16 Feb 2012 09:48:11 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 09:42:04
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| @ Lady Shadowflame - Mavrosh has done some awesome stuff. I'm partial to this one. A character she calls Ceithre, which I think is a perfect depiction of the Eberron dark elves who tattoo themselves with scorpion venom, particularly the Sulatar Firebinders who decorate themselves in a flame motif. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 16 Feb 2012 10:18:21 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 10:08:23
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A good one by Cyzra. Love the face on this. I could see this as Liriel.
Note: Contains partial nudity don't look if you will be offended. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 16 Feb 2012 10:22:06 |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 10:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
@ Lady Shadowflame - Mavrosh has done some awesome stuff. I'm partial to this one. A character he calls Ceithre, which I think is a perfect depiction of the Eberron dark elves who tattoo themselves with scorpion venom, particularly the Sulatar Firebinders who decorate themselves in a flame motif.
A character she calls Ceithre, yes. And I'm pretty sure those are not tattoos; Ceithre is a Helmorui dark elf, with an unusual birthmark patterning, if I remember the backstory rightly. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 10:11:14
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Yea, those are pretty night-elfish. But I've definitely seen worse, I can deal with that.
Mavrosh's work is pretty impressive.
And lulz @ Dinin. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 10:17:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Shadowflame
A character she calls Ceithre, yes. And I'm pretty sure those are not tattoos; Ceithre is a Helmorui dark elf, with an unusual birthmark patterning, if I remember the backstory rightly.
I stand corrected. Apologies. That was just my impression, I never read the backstory. I was just going from the description in Xen'drik. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 10:42:33
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| On a related note, I found this wrist crossbow and this one just the other day at Raymond Swanland's Gallery. Do you think the drow could manufacture something like this or is it too "gear-punk"? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 16 Feb 2012 10:51:29 |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 10:55:51
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I add a word to the wise; Mavrosh's gallery... well, she puts mature content filters on everything that needs it, but if you happen to be signed in, make sure no-one's looking over your shoulder.
Her characters turn up less than clad every so often.
...Especially Socair. I operate under the theory that Socair is allergic to shirts (and sometimes pants).
A DarrkestDrow piece.
And some Gold-Seven: Drow twins, Drow nightblade, and a picture of Eilistraee's choice. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 11:15:14
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| Not definitively drow, but could be. This guy takes his LARPing seriously. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Farrel
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
239 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 18:31:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
On a related note, I found this wrist crossbow and this one just the other day at Raymond Swanland's Gallery. Do you think the drow could manufacture something like this or is it too "gear-punk"?
In the old 2e The Drow of the Underdark (FOR2 Accessory 9326) by Mr Greenwood it describes the Drow Artisans. I for one think the wrist crossbow is an excellent example of what they could manufacture. The details are on page 91 of the aforementioned sourcebook. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 18:47:38
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I'll post what I did over in my thread, which is mostly about elves, but feeds into how I picture drow.
(In a scroll about the Fox-at-Twilight, I see no reason to stop discussing what makes an elf beautiful.  )
I personally trend more to the "slender" end of the spectrum than the "voluptuous" end with regard to elves. To me, if I see a particularly buxom or curvy elf, it registers as a mistake to me. As I imaging them, elves are possessed of a lithe, wiry beauty, untouched by indolence or excess. They are built on small frames, though they might be very tall (males with a tendency toward lankiness, females we'd call "willowy").
And while I am a straight male and thus, by definition, like looking at women's bodies in various states of undress, the plethora of huge-breasted "elven" women in scanty fantasy "armor" makes me sort of tired, rather than titillated. I think a fully-clothed/armored woman preparing/arrayed for battle is *very* sexy. (Maybe not so much the actual battle bit, as there's all kinds of blood and gore and dismemberment there, but to each his own.)
As for drow, I'm happy to see the sensuality taken up a notch, though I still don't think "stereotypical slutty fantasy armor" is appropriate. I also picture drow as being a little more muscular than their surface world cousins. Slim, wiry, hard like steel, smooth as silk. That's the drow.
I'll check out the pictures when I get a chance, and maybe link one or two that I like particularly.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 19:43:18
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Bring back Ed's White Drow.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 20:33:17
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| Albino drow is an interesting concept. I could see them as some sort of feral savages or even as a cultured society that looks down on even their dark skinned brethren as mere cattle weak imitations of what a real drow is. I think there is a scroll somewhere in the keep that references House Starym as a version of Ed's albino elves. I wonder what albino drow would worship. Moander AND the Seldarine maybe? |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 20:38:22
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I like where you're going with this Erik. It appears that you and I, more often than not, think along similar lines.
And from another straight male, I picture elves much the same as you do and love the choice of words you used to describe the differences between males and females. I've always tended to picture the males as (bad accent from The Replacements), "...say it with me...wiry." while females are slim, petite, and as you called them, willowy. This is not to say that any of the above are not strong in their musculature but, I picture them built the way a running back (Sweeper for fans of what everyone else in the world calls football) is built rather than a power lifter or wrestler.
I concur one hundred percent with your thought about armor. Armor's job is to protect the wearer and if it doesn't cover anything, it can't protect anything. You could argue that mobility is more important than coverage to most elven-types. However, I'd counter with the mobility of a suit of armor is defined more by proper jointing and cunning craftsmanship; which allows the required level of movement without sacrificing protection. Naturally, the more flexible the 'materiel' is to begin with the more mobility it will allow. IMO, this is why armors made from lighter materiels such as studded leather or chain mail have higher max dex bonuses than half or full plate in terms of game mechanics. Sure, we could all cover our characters in sheets of adamantine or mithral which would provide great protection but without proper joints, you'd look like a funny-colored version of the Tin Man from Wizard of Oz.
For drow, I'm much the same in my views. Males are basically smaller of stature and more compact than their surface cousins. I guess you could translate that to more muscular but I tend to view it as more 'cut' rather than more 'bulky' in appearance, especially the melee-types. Arcane types I tend to view as almost identical to their surface kin but slightly smaller in stature. Female priestesses I feel tend to rely less on bulky armor than their surface counterparts of clerics. I tend to view them as favoring robes - the state of body coverage dependant upon what they were made for. They are definately the group most likely to play up their sensuality but their magic protections allow them that luxury. Female drow melee types I tend to view as almost identical to surface male melee types both in stature and musculature, simply softening a few lines on the face and changing a few on the body (around the chest/waist areas mostly) and changing their skin/hair tones renders them well whenever I take to sketching.
To sum it up, I view drow almost as a negative image of their surface cousins including their sizes and coloration. Surface males are larger than surface females, reverse that for drow. Change the design of the armor to reflect different cultural preferences in style and you're done.
Good Hunting! |
"Firepower - if it's not working, you're not using enough." ~ Military Proverb
"If at first you do succeed, you must've rolled a natural 20!" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 20:49:21
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Right.
Elven women = svelt. Dwarven women = voluptuous (or 'Rubenesque')
With a range across the board, just as in humans, but those should be considered the racial norm. Humans have no 'norm'.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Feb 2012 20:50:21 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 21:47:35
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sharp-featured, lean and mean, obsidian-skinned - yes.
Round-faced, round... ahem... all-around, the color of a fungi-infested corpse and with ears two hands long - no... pretty please. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 22:07:51
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I've got to agree with Erik and Wolfhound with regards to femme fantasy armor. It's being done now to the point of ridiculousness. I mean, what is the point of a breastplate that barely covers your nipples? Don't get me wrong as a long time comic fanboy, I love to look at that kind of imagery done well, and prefer my RW women in various states of undress, but I would like to see a bit more realism.
On the subject of elven physique. I would add the word sinewy. My brother in real life is only about 5 foot and a hundred pounds. The kid's got a hyper-active metabolism and no matter how much beer we drink he never gets above 6 or 7% body fat. He's cut up like a bag of dope and his shoulders aren't much wider than his hips.
On dwarf women. I think this pic from Secrets of Xen'drik (one of my favorite sourcebooks) captured it perfectly. Curvy, muscular and clean shaven. Although she looks like she could bench press me, I think it's kinda sexy. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 16 Feb 2012 23:11:27 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 22:11:54
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| Other than the skin-tone being a few shades off, I really liked the cover of the 3e Drow of the Underdark. I thought that was a very good picture. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 23:17:10
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I've seen some good drow images..
seen some good elf images too....
on that note seen some bad ones too....
my question is, is how much curves on a female elf/eladrin/drow would be considered voluptuos?
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 23:32:38
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Actually, the more revealing armor works much better.
Would you hit a barely-dressed, incredibly hot babe with your sword? Probably not. Some helmeted knight, armored from head to foot, who is completely anonymous? Sure... why not?
Armor just has to stop damage - it doesn't matter how.
Distractions are just good defense - ask Sun Tsu. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 00:38:04
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So long as they're not fat, then I'm fine with it (though just a little, given how I feel about them). |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 04:38:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Actually, the more revealing armor works much better.
Would you hit a barely-dressed, incredibly hot babe with your sword? Probably not. Some helmeted knight, armored from head to foot, who is completely anonymous? Sure... why not?
Armor just has to stop damage - it doesn't matter how.
Distractions are just good defense - ask Sun Tsu.
Would I? Yes. She's an even better foe than the armoured knight, because glancing attacks are easier to land with less risk, and after a few of those, she'll probably bleed out.
So would I hit her with a sword? Definitely. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 04:58:16
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ahhh the slave girl/harem guard attire.....
great at costume masquerardes not so much elsewhere.....
I have a nickname for female characters that wear that type of armor and it is Swordwhore and I mean no offense to any woman here. I coined the term after looking in alot of budk catalogues and the kit rae swords there within its aweful pages. namely the art that accompanies it. scantly clad or skyclad woman wielding a sword ir recieve a sword from something......
such armor anyway requires one to be really good at feinting and really really quick on your feat.
I as a guy have no problem with flesh exposing armor, but the that type of armor shows way too much skin.
might be why I got into a short argument with someone on DA about me not likely a piece of art that came from princess of mars and the fact I never heard of the author..... (was mistaken there, but I dont read credits at the theaters soooo) the auther also created the Tarzan character... oh gosh did he jump down my throught over that....
which reminds me I'm rambling again and a good piece of advice for the future and its really off topic, but I learned it that day.
make sure that one looks up the author of said character, whatch what you type and remember at the end of the day, its only words and such.. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 10:01:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Shadowflame
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Actually, the more revealing armor works much better.
Would you hit a barely-dressed, incredibly hot babe with your sword? Probably not. Some helmeted knight, armored from head to foot, who is completely anonymous? Sure... why not?
Armor just has to stop damage - it doesn't matter how.
Distractions are just good defense - ask Sun Tsu.
Would I? Yes. She's an even better foe than the armoured knight, because glancing attacks are easier to land with less risk, and after a few of those, she'll probably bleed out.
So would I hit her with a sword? Definitely.
Note to self: Do not read LS's posts with a mouthful of hot coffee...
Okay...this is a running debate I have participated in on the Everquest forums, and I am hoping opinions here do not reach the fever pitch they have attained over there at times (which I could gently describe as 'uncharitable').
Briefly, though, on elves - I have always described the general populace of any elven nation/land/polity/world/etc. as being, as was stated earlier here, 'willowy'...the Tolkien model endures in this. It is when you get to less mundane examples of said elves that the more 'pronounced shapes' (to put it one way) become more evident, these 'less mundane' souls being player characters and prominent NPC figures, which is how, in my mind, such an over-representation of 'beef and cheese' in portraits of elves predominates.
You aren't generally shown pictures of the 'common elf', thus when an exceptional elf with a 'common look' distinguishes themselves, they are often not remembered in favor of those with more, ah, prominent features. These have been my observations, anyways. Most of my female players put curves on their characters by preference, anyways, regardless of species.
Now...on to armor. 'Normal' armor versus 'Red Sonja' armor:
Personal Preference: Excellent argument. If someone prefers the 'realistic' look, more power to them. I would never force someone with such preferences into a plate halter. In some worlds, such as Cerilia (of Birthright fame), 'Red Sonja' armor doesn't (in my opinion) even exist. The setting simply doesn't lend itself to such attire. That is my preference in this case (and since I am usually the DM, what I say goes). Maybe a slightly deeper neck on occasion, or a bare midriff here and there, but realistic armor rules the roost in such worlds.
Of course, this is also accompanied by what I view as an extreme dearth of wizardly (and divine) magic - such spellcasters are too busy helping determine the fate of kingdoms and producing epic weaponry and artifacts to...help determine the fate of kingdoms. A chainmail bikini doesn't exactly mesh with that world idea.
DM fiat: Obvious. The DM says 'no chain bikinis' - argument over. Next.
Realism: I've always dismissed this argument, at a base level, out of hand. Not fitting in a particular setting (like Birthright) is one thing, undeniably. But 'realism'? Right. Let's assume dragons did exist. Using real-world physics:
*Armored knights in full plate ride out to do battle with dragon.
*Dragon steps on armored knights, crushing them all like cockroaches in twenty seconds, tops, while wondering how his investments with Mirt are doing. Knights turned into pate', with bodily fluids leaking out of their pancaked armor.
*The End.
No swordfight, no magic weapons able to be used, nothing. None of that stuff matters, because the weight of physics (npi) says that the knights never stood a chance to begin with, even if they were level 10,000, and that they are now very, very dead. End of discussion. Realism trumps fantasy.
In a world where we have our 'representatives' tossing fireballs, facing down demon kings, slaughtering Oboulds's multitudes without breaking a sweat, taking a ride on a City of Shade, or going toe to toe with Thay's undead legions before noontime tea, the argument of 'it isn't realistic' doesn't compute. In a place like the Realms (even 4th Edition), wizards, enchanters, and magical artificers are much more commonplace, and thus have time to produce such interesting articles as Marizog's Splendiferous Battle Halter of Unyielding Steadfastness +5 (or whatever). Magical materials, bound entities, bizarre enchantments, and off-kilter metaphysics say that realism gets to take a hike.
Some things are true regardless of worlds: Rain on a nighttime roof, man's best friend, and of course, bacon (among many things). But all-pervading realism in my fantasy? Nah...not interested.
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 17 Feb 2012 10:06:22 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 11:21:16
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@ Old Man Harpell
You make a good point. After all fantasy is just that Fantasy, if you want realism then read Hemingway.
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
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Drow Pics
