Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Reboot of the Realms for 5th edition.
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 23

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6428 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  06:53:13  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Therise

But they're not going for consensus with the 5E rules, they're going for modularity.
How do you know this, Therise?

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  06:59:56  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

quote:
Therise

But they're not going for consensus with the 5E rules, they're going for modularity.
How do you know this, Therise?


From Monte.



4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
Go to Top of Page

Sill Alias
Senior Scribe

Kazakhstan
588 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  07:00:17  Show Profile  Visit Sill Alias's Homepage Send Sill Alias a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If reboot is meant in full meaning of it, then no, I am against it.

If, however, it is not reboot, but taking campaign's place in more past time not too far like now, then why not? The most fearsome thing in 4th edition is lack of knowledge about many things. It is hard to take everything that happened in 100 years in one moment easily.

You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias

"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6428 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  07:23:34  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Therise
quote:
Ayrik
quote:
Therise

But they're not going for consensus with the 5E rules, they're going for modularity.
How do you know this, Therise?
From Monte.
lol, sorry to belabour this point ... but I've not yet noticed Monte or anyone else from WotC ever stating 5E will implement a modular approach. Not in Charting the Course for D&D where 5E was officially announced, nor in Monte's Looking at the Past and the Future followup article, nor even in any of the first ten hits on a google search for D&D 5E (modular or module). Indeed, the only instances of the words module or modular occur as passing references to the approaches used in past D&D editions and in the very unofficial commentary appended or initiated by D&D fans such as ourselves. EN World has written an exhaustive and seemingly authoritative article about 5E modularity, a Forbes report attributes statements about 5E modularity to Mike Mearls without any supporting interviews or quotes, and any number of D&D fansites repeat, elaborate, and distort these claims ad nauseum.

A modular game design seems intelligent, it's what many of us want and hope for, it's evidently what most of us automatically expect, 5E might turn out to be a modular design. But it has conspicuously never yet been advertised as such, which surprises me since "modular" is such a powerful term when marketing RPGs. As you can see, I'm wary of assumptions.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 16 Jan 2012 07:59:43
Go to Top of Page

MalariaMoon
Learned Scribe

324 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  08:26:52  Show Profile  Visit MalariaMoon's Homepage Send MalariaMoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There always seems to be a bit of a hullabaloo going on in these 5E Realms threads, so I'm going to throw in my two cents and make a quick getaway.

Whilst I'm not a fan of the Spellplague changes, I'd like to see the Realms continue moving forward (both conceptually and chronologically). One of the motivations behind the 4E changes was that the sheer depth of lore was one of the thing that prevented new fans entering the Realms. That's a valid criticism, but I think it was also the foremost thing that made the Realms stand out from all the other fantasy world's; the sheer depth of lore (for good or ill).

The 4E Realms has been about wide sketches; with the details for DMs to ink in. Again, that makes sense, but I think it weakens the Realms. I want MORE LORE! I hope the Realms in 5E goes about filling in a lot of those details for us. Give us the stories and characters of the new era, and eventually they'll become as iconic as those from the "good old days" of the Realms. I want books full of fluff in dense print, I want the people who understand the Realms to start making it complicated again. I want sourcebooks a la Lands of Intrigue. I want Volo's Guide to Returned Abeir. Give the new landscape some Realms personality. Give Ed as much money as he needs to just churn out Realmslore at will on whatever topic he sees fit.

Some DMs like trying to thread their stories through mountains of established canon. Maybe it's a bit more work, but it's incredibly rewarding (for me at any rate).

I definitely wouldn't like to see all the old sourcebooks reprinted with new rules. I'd like a lot less RSEs, but thirty years on it would be fun to look back at the Spellplague and then argue about the state of the Realms in 1685 DR!
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6428 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  08:33:42  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Volo's Guide to Returned Abeir

* The thought seems to skip a heartbeat and catch in his throat. Taken by surprise, Ayrik turns away, hiding a choking wave of anticipation and sadness that abruptly blurs his vision. *

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2907 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  09:06:11  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Volo's Guide to Tymanther.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
Go to Top of Page

Quale
Master of Realmslore

1755 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  10:00:27  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't know. Agree with MalariaMoon, I want new stuff, maybe just take 1350 - 1500 DR and detail the hell out of it, while downplaying the unpopular events. The secret is always in the details, return to the 1st person unreliable narrator and e.g. describe the Time of Troubles in a different way, without the gods acting like idiots, or actually this time describe the Zhents as more competent, make dragons and elves mythical, either reduce or increase real world influences, not something halfway that doesn't make sense, or attract gamers with Ed's original take on a few places, or others with more balanced npc stats, etc. hundreds of other improvements are possible. I don't see how returning to 1357 DR would be an improvement over 1479 DR, both are bare bones basically.
Go to Top of Page

Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  10:12:57  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think a reboot would be a terrible idea. While i agree that the realms need a bit of fixing , i disagree strongly with the view that 4e brought nothing good to the realms. Forgotten realms is not a comic book that RECENT events can simply be ignored and we return to a time when Mystra and Kelemovor are happily married with three kids and a pool in the the backyard.
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  14:10:05  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

"New" is relative. The Time of Troubles told in a dragon/illithid/drow's point of view is new. Old news, but new perspective. Still, it's something new---some things never divulged before would be brought to the limelight. And I don't think a reset is needed to make that happen.


Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  16:14:20  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

lol, sorry to belabour this point ... but I've not yet noticed Monte or anyone else from WotC ever stating 5E will implement a modular approach. Not in Charting the Course for D&D where 5E was officially announced, nor in Monte's Looking at the Past and the Future followup article, nor even in any of the first ten hits on a google search for D&D 5E (modular or module). Indeed, the only instances of the words module or modular occur as passing references to the approaches used in past D&D editions and in the very unofficial commentary appended or initiated by D&D fans such as ourselves. EN World has written an exhaustive and seemingly authoritative article about 5E modularity, a Forbes report attributes statements about 5E modularity to Mike Mearls without any supporting interviews or quotes, and any number of D&D fansites repeat, elaborate, and distort these claims ad nauseum.

A modular game design seems intelligent, it's what many of us want and hope for, it's evidently what most of us automatically expect, 5E might turn out to be a modular design. But it has conspicuously never yet been advertised as such, which surprises me since "modular" is such a powerful term when marketing RPGs. As you can see, I'm wary of assumptions.


Well, they've been talking about modularity and modular approaches to the rules since August. The title was even "Modular Madness". The most recent of Monte's legends and lore states the following:
quote:
"Now imagine that the game offered you modular, optional add-ons that allow you to create the character you want to play while letting the Dungeon Master create the game he or she wants to run. Like simple rules for your story-driven game? You're good to go."


So... modular.


4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
Go to Top of Page

Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  18:57:25  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doing a reboot for the dragon born would be easy. They did it with kobolds, they used to be figment.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
Go to Top of Page

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3418 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  19:13:25  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dragonborn are an already established race within the Realms without the 4E stuff they added. They could be Dragonkin, Dragonborn ( as per the Races of the Dragon, v3.5 supplement) AND/OR Saurials of a different faction. I mean, I don't know why they went with the Abier-world aspect but that shouldn't be the only way they've entered the setting.

EDIT: Spelling

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Edited by - Diffan on 17 Jan 2012 12:16:44
Go to Top of Page

idilippy
Senior Scribe

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  19:25:51  Show Profile Send idilippy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayriklol, sorry to belabour this point ... but I've not yet noticed Monte or anyone else from WotC ever stating 5E will implement a modular approach. Not in Charting the Course for D&D where 5E was officially announced, nor in Monte's Looking at the Past and the Future followup article, nor even in any of the first ten hits on a google search for D&D 5E (modular or module). Indeed, the only instances of the words module or modular occur as passing references to the approaches used in past D&D editions and in the very unofficial commentary appended or initiated by D&D fans such as ourselves. EN World has written an exhaustive and seemingly authoritative article about 5E modularity, a Forbes report attributes statements about 5E modularity to Mike Mearls without any supporting interviews or quotes, and any number of D&D fansites repeat, elaborate, and distort these claims ad nauseum.

A modular game design seems intelligent, it's what many of us want and hope for, it's evidently what most of us automatically expect, 5E might turn out to be a modular design. But it has conspicuously never yet been advertised as such, which surprises me since "modular" is such a powerful term when marketing RPGs. As you can see, I'm wary of assumptions.



I read the article by Monte Cook and felt that there were a couple places that made it seem obvious they were going for modularity:

quote:
Imagine a game where the core essence of D&D has been distilled down to a very simple but entirely playable-in-its-right game. Now imagine that the game offered you modular, optional add-ons that allow you to create the character you want to play while letting the Dungeon Master create the game he or she wants to run...

In this game, you play what you want to play. It’s our goal to give you the tools to do so.

Bolded for emphasis. That sounds like they are putting together a single most basic framework and then allowing the piling up of add-ons and optional rules around that framework, or so they state is their goal. Further evidence supporting modularity as an end goal seems to be here:
quote:
So if this new endeavor is just like your favorite prior version of the game, why play this one? First, we hope you're going to enjoy the distillation of the things that make D&D the game we all love into a single, unified package, with the ability to pick and choose other options as you desire.

Second—and this sounds so crazy that you probably won't believe it right now—we're designing the game so that not every player has to choose from the same set of options.

Bolded for emphasis. Now, these are all great things to say, but it is possible that these lofty goals won't pan out. Still, it's hard to argue that 5e rules are not being built around modularity. As to whether that modular approach applies to the Forgotten Realms setting? I don't know, maybe somebody has said something specific about the Realms that I missed or maybe nothing major has been said yet.

Edited by - idilippy on 16 Jan 2012 19:28:23
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  20:07:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

See this scroll Markus

It might answer your questions, or leave you with more...

First you make me look at the WotC site...

I had something different here, but I just erased a mini-rant. I have been calling for a 'time for healing', and I realize now, I am part of the infection. I won't say why, but lets just say I didn't get past the second paragraph.

And now, to give WotC their Christmas gift late (or very early) - see you in the funny papers. I really hope everyone gets everything out of 5e they want.

Peace

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3418 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2012 :  21:09:59  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

See this scroll Markus

It might answer your questions, or leave you with more...

First you make me look at the WotC site...

I had something different here, but I just erased a mini-rant. I have been calling for a 'time for healing', and I realize now, I am part of the infection. I won't say why, but lets just say I didn't get past the second paragraph.

And now, to give WotC their Christmas gift late (or very early) - see you in the funny papers. I really hope everyone gets everything out of 5e they want.

Peace



So......I'm guess what you read was bad then?

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
Go to Top of Page

Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
712 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2012 :  02:32:42  Show Profile  Visit Razz's Homepage  Send Razz an AOL message Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think this question either needs more options or needs to be more specific.

Are you asking a complete reboot as in from scratch, starting from Greenwood's original vision?

Or do you mean reboot back to before the 4th Edition-Spellplague garbage?

Because I'm all for going back to 1375 D.R. and no earlier. Not a fan of rebooting it all over, however. That's a lot of lore to throw out. I think we need to start back at 1375 D.R. but be more concise and respectful to everything written before.

As in, I think it should be mandated for authors and designers to do ALL their research prior to committing to a project. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Go to Top of Page

Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
470 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2012 :  05:11:59  Show Profile  Visit Old Man Harpell's Homepage Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

I think this question either needs more options or needs to be more specific.

Are you asking a complete reboot as in from scratch, starting from Greenwood's original vision?

Or do you mean reboot back to before the 4th Edition-Spellplague garbage?

Because I'm all for going back to 1375 D.R. and no earlier. Not a fan of rebooting it all over, however. That's a lot of lore to throw out. I think we need to start back at 1375 D.R. but be more concise and respectful to everything written before.

As in, I think it should be mandated for authors and designers to do ALL their research prior to committing to a project. No ifs, ands, or buts.


While rewinding to 1375 would be my ideal scenario as well, that is going to raise the ire of the unknown number of 4th Edition aficionados.

Granted, it may be exactly what Wizbro is planning on doing, after receiving the type of verbal savaging directed at them from sites across the internet, figuring it's a gamble worth taking (and in my opinion, it probably is), but someone, somewhere, is going to end up holding the short end of the stick.

I have this crawling feeling that we in the the Realms family are going to be poorer off no matter what Wizbro does, one way or another, whether it's losing some of our members, or receiving a product that attempts to please as many people as possible, but in the end pleases no one.
Go to Top of Page

Tyrant
Senior Scribe

USA
586 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2012 :  06:32:27  Show Profile  Visit Tyrant's Homepage Send Tyrant a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Or do you mean reboot back to before the 4th Edition-Spellplague garbage?

Given how discussions have been going about this topic, what are you hoping to accomplish here?
quote:
Because I'm all for going back to 1375 D.R. and no earlier. Not a fan of rebooting it all over, however. That's a lot of lore to throw out. I think we need to start back at 1375 D.R. but be more concise and respectful to everything written before.

You're concerned about throwing out lore and being respectful to everything that has come before, and you are wanting to throw out everything after 1375. These comments and goals seem to be at odds.
quote:
As in, I think it should be mandated for authors and designers to do ALL their research prior to committing to a project. No ifs, ands, or buts.

That's pretty slick implying that the authors aren't doing their job without actually saying it.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code

Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest
Go to Top of Page

Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
470 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2012 :  07:58:24  Show Profile  Visit Old Man Harpell's Homepage Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant

quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Or do you mean reboot back to before the 4th Edition-Spellplague garbage?

Given how discussions have been going about this topic, what are you hoping to accomplish here?
quote:
Because I'm all for going back to 1375 D.R. and no earlier. Not a fan of rebooting it all over, however. That's a lot of lore to throw out. I think we need to start back at 1375 D.R. but be more concise and respectful to everything written before.

You're concerned about throwing out lore and being respectful to everything that has come before, and you are wanting to throw out everything after 1375. These comments and goals seem to be at odds.
quote:
As in, I think it should be mandated for authors and designers to do ALL their research prior to committing to a project. No ifs, ands, or buts.

That's pretty slick implying that the authors aren't doing their job without actually saying it.


I don't pretend to know what Razz was implying, because I'm aware that it's impossible for anyone else to know without actually getting an answer from Razz himself. That said...

It's clear that the authors of the Shattered Realms didn't do all their homework. If they had, we wouldn't be here having this acrimonious discussion and accusing each other of 'assaulting X Edition' and 'this RSE sucked while this one didn't' and 'so-and-so doesn't know what they're talking about' and 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' and...

...and a moderator's Twinkie Alarm goes off, and they lock down the thread. And who can blame them? Come on, people, this isn't the WotC boards, this is Candlekeep. Posts should stay on topic, criticism should always be constructive (or at the very least, not leveled at each other), and the focus should be contribution, not verbally short-sheeting other posters. This topic - not this thread, but the entire topic, especially the tone - is getting discouragingly nasty.

There's bugger all we're actually going to know with Wizbro holding their cards so close to their vest. There's no point in provoking others and perpetuating bad feelings that may last long after this issue is buried and over with.
Go to Top of Page

Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2907 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2012 :  08:38:14  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Can people please quit using the term "shattered". Thats like spitting in Ed's and the other freelancer's face.

Now wonder this forum has the rep of being a grognard forum.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
Go to Top of Page

Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2907 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2012 :  08:41:52  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No wonder why the WotC designers don't come here anymore. Kinda surprised that that the freelancers come here at all.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
Go to Top of Page

glitter
Seeker

France
45 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2012 :  09:46:18  Show Profile Send glitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MalariaMoon
Whilst I'm not a fan of the Spellplague changes, I'd like to see the Realms continue moving forward (both conceptually and chronologically). One of the motivations behind the 4E changes was that the sheer depth of lore was one of the thing that prevented new fans entering the Realms. That's a valid criticism, but I think it was also the foremost thing that made the Realms stand out from all the other fantasy world's; the sheer depth of lore (for good or ill).

The 4E Realms has been about wide sketches; with the details for DMs to ink in. Again, that makes sense, but I think it weakens the Realms. I want MORE LORE! I hope the Realms in 5E goes about filling in a lot of those details for us. Give us the stories and characters of the new era, and eventually they'll become as iconic as those from the "good old days" of the Realms. I want books full of fluff in dense print, I want the people who understand the Realms to start making it complicated again. I want sourcebooks a la Lands of Intrigue. I want Volo's Guide to Returned Abeir. Give the new landscape some Realms personality. Give Ed as much money as he needs to just churn out Realmslore at will on whatever topic he sees fit.

Some DMs like trying to thread their stories through mountains of established canon. Maybe it's a bit more work, but it's incredibly rewarding (for me at any rate).

I definitely wouldn't like to see all the old sourcebooks reprinted with new rules. I'd like a lot less RSEs, but thirty years on it would be fun to look back at the Spellplague and then argue about the state of the Realms in 1685 DR!


For me, who HATE 99% of the Spellplague changes, (favorite countries, characters,gods all gone etc etc) going back to the 3rd Ed background sound totally stupid.
I totally share your opinion, they can regain my interest (and my money) with interesting lore. But I must say that I can't imagine them to achieve such a tour de force since not only they will have to work well, but I will have to overcome my contempt for the D&D line up.

In fact, perhaps WotC should push other settings like Oberron where they still have "fresh" players.



-The black knight is invincible!
- You’re a looney.
Go to Top of Page

Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker

73 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2012 :  10:52:59  Show Profile Send Lady Swiftstrike Assassin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*In nasal nerd-tone*

Can you provide some hard numbers to back-up these claims, Brimstone?

quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

Can people please quit using the term "shattered". Thats like spitting in Ed's and the other freelancer's face.

Now wonder this forum has the rep of being a grognard forum.


Edited by - Lady Swiftstrike Assassin on 17 Jan 2012 10:54:34
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30338 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2012 :  11:49:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin

*In nasal nerd-tone*

Can you provide some hard numbers to back-up these claims, Brimstone?

quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

Can people please quit using the term "shattered". Thats like spitting in Ed's and the other freelancer's face.

Now wonder this forum has the rep of being a grognard forum.





Alright, Lady, don't you think you've pushed that particular button enough times?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 23 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000