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Light
Learned Scribe
Australia
231 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 01:36:41
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So from what I understand, a Demilich's phylactery are the gems they replace their teeth and eyes with. Other liches' phylactery are objects separate from their bodies, allowing them to put it in a secure location so that if they are killed they can reform later. But what about a Demilich? If someone manages to destroy/kill it they could easily wipe out its phylactery as well or is there something I'm missing because if I'm not it seems that Demiliches are at a slight disadvantage here compared to their normal counterparts.
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"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 01:54:15
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It might depend on version, however what adventurer except a priest would not sell a gem even if the demi comes back to life. It could become a business deal and fighter spiting the money received from sale of gem. Granting a Demi is at greater risk of total destruction, however survival certainly possible.
Edit: Looked at SRD, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/demilich.htm and it appears that the items collected are not required to be on body. a demi appears more powerful then a lich.
quote: Creating A Demilich
“Demilich” is a template that can be added to any lich. It uses all the lich’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. A demilich’s form is concentrated into a single portion of its original body, usually its skull. Part of the process of becoming a demilich includes the incorporation of costly gems into the retained body part; see Creating Soul Gems, below.
quote: Phylactery Transference (Su)
Headbands, belts, rings, cloaks, and other wearable items kept in close association with the demilich’s phylactery transfer all their benefits to the demilich no matter how far apart the demilich and the phylactery are located. The standard limits on types of items utilized simultaneously still apply.
quote: Creating Soul Gems
Liches have phylacteries that allow them to reappear 1d10 days after their apparent death, as do demiliches. Demiliches also have eight soul gems, each of which acts like a phylactery in its own right. If all the soul gems, as well as the demilich’s phylactery, are not destroyed after a demilich is downed, the demilich reappears 1d10 days after its apparent death. The soul gems also allow the demilich to use its most devastating ability, trap the soul (see above). Each demilich must make its own soul gems, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The lich must be a sorcerer, wizard, or cleric of at least 21st level. Each soul gem costs 120,000 gp and 4,800 XP to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation. Soul gems appear as egg-shaped gems of wondrous quality. They are always incorporated directly into the concentrated form of the demilich.
Thus in effect they are worst then Liches and gems carried even if destroyed will not kill, at least under 3.5 |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards." "Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding. "After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first." "Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 06 Sep 2011 03:55:39 |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 07:49:43
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quote: Originally posted by Kentinal
It might depend on version, however what adventurer except a priest would not sell a gem even if the demi comes back to life. It could become a business deal and fighter spiting the money received from sale of gem. Granting a Demi is at greater risk of total destruction, however survival certainly possible.
...What adventurer? Er... how about any adventurer with the sense to realise that if you kill an undead thing you want it to stay dead, or it might take revenge upon you later?
"Never leave a live enemy behind you," the saying goes, and it also goes for the notion of leaving enemies behind who can go back to their unlives in a matter of days. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7977 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 11:27:58
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I'm deeply influenced by the descriptions in materials like Van Richten's Guide to the Lich ... demi-liches are as much beyond the power of normal liches as archmages are above simple peasants. It is fortunate that they are no longer concerned with the little attachments of flesh, mind, and spirit which once bound them to our worlds, their existence transcends our comprehension as much as we are inconsequential to theirs.
I would expect demiliches are more than simple random encounters, they are carefully placed in the setting, they are extremely rare (even in Faerûn, where there's two liches under every rock), and they are almost certainly not found by the stumbling accident of most adventurers. A few liches of comparably phenomenal age and power - notably Larloch and Szass Tam - continue to cling to their concerns within the mortal world, which suggests to me that the transition to meta-lich demi-existence is something which requires tremendous growth of power, inhuman focus of will, and special preparations which probably span several centuries or millennia. So I very much doubt their bones are simply lying in a heap in some dusty old dungeon corner - I suspect that instead the placement of their bodies and phylacteries was a foremost consideration during their transcension, they would be inaccessible, locked, trapped, warded, they would remain safely intact and undisturbed for as long as possible.
By extension, I would expect that the existence and locations of demi-lich remains are secrets known to very very few, perhaps lost to all but the memories of the gods. Discovering such hidden secrets might involve consulting with fiends or deities, travelling through the planes, travelling through time ... indeed, the demi-lair itself might only be accessible outside of normal time and space. In short; hunting a particular demi-lich should take as much research and preparation as hunting down a particular ancient dragon. No easy feat, since it's safe to assume the demi-lich (or more accurately, the uber-lich who was evolving - through supernatural instinct or through choice - into the demi-lich) simply sat and contemplated the impossibly fine details of his impending transformation over the course of many lifetimes. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 06 Sep 2011 11:35:05 |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 16:49:01
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Larloch preserves himself from becoming a demilich |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7977 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 17:06:10
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quote: Marc
Larloch preserves himself from becoming a demilich
What is your source of this information about Larloch? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 17:14:43
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Lords of Darkness, under Demi-lichdom |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 17:53:28
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quote: Originally posted by Marc
Lords of Darkness, under Demi-lichdom
The 2E (or is it 1E), or the 3E LoD? |
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Farrel
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
239 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 18:22:47
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I just had a quick look through the two versions.
Lords of Darkness p162(3E): Larloch's description where it details that he has hidden chambers within Warlock's Crypt that magically heal undead bodies.
Lords of Darkness p75(1E) that states that Lichdom can be sustained by the faithful casting of Nulathoe's Ninemen on the phylactery. It states that even this magic starts to fade after 900+yrs at which point the Lich either crumbles to dust or continues its existence as a Demi-lich. It does add, and gives Charchee as an example, that some Liches can extend their Lichdom for upto 3000+yrs. This edition makes no mention of Larloch.
Hope this helps a bit. |
Edited by - Farrel on 06 Sep 2011 18:24:43 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 18:51:10
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More from Ed on Larloch
http://web.archive.org/web/20020825233637/http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/ed-larloch.htm
Now what would be interesting is some of his servitor liches became demi-liches, would he still control them? Would they still be useful to him?
I suspect there might be an adventure in this for a high level party to-whit: They are convinced that by transforming one of Larloch's liches into a demi, it starts a chain reaction in all the others, weakening Larloch's power and allowing them to defeat him. Of course the 'proof' would need to be very subtley placed into the game as Tam works best like that......
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I? Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. . shudder, love to all, THO Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1267 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 19:42:11
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I always wanted to know more about Dracoliches surviving. Like the two (or three?) that Shandril kills in Spellfire, none of them had the Phylacteries destroyed, so they all still live, right? I think I read about them suriving in the 3rd Edition Draconomicon book anyway. Sorry if this is too off topic! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7977 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 22:14:10
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Maybe not off-topic at all. I wonder if demiliching is a strictly human aspiration, or if demidracoliches exist ... the mind and magic of dragons are very different. In 2E rules humans had souls whereas dragons had anima, a vague (although apparently important) difference which can have profound impact on matters of life, death, and undeath. |
[/Ayrik] |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 23:53:05
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Hey crazed, those links didn't work at all for me.
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 03:36:42
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quote: Originally posted by althen artren
Hey crazed, those links didn't work at all for me.
You have to copy + paste both of them to your brower's address bar without space in between. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11731 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 06:11:53
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quote: Originally posted by Ayrik
I'm deeply influenced by the descriptions in materials like Van Richten's Guide to the Lich ... demi-liches are as much beyond the power of normal liches as archmages are above simple peasants. It is fortunate that they are no longer concerned with the little attachments of flesh, mind, and spirit which once bound them to our worlds, their existence transcends our comprehension as much as we are inconsequential to theirs.
I would expect demiliches are more than simple random encounters, they are carefully placed in the setting, they are extremely rare (even in Faerûn, where there's two liches under every rock), and they are almost certainly not found by the stumbling accident of most adventurers. A few liches of comparably phenomenal age and power - notably Larloch and Szass Tam - continue to cling to their concerns within the mortal world, which suggests to me that the transition to meta-lich demi-existence is something which requires tremendous growth of power, inhuman focus of will, and special preparations which probably span several centuries or millennia. So I very much doubt their bones are simply lying in a heap in some dusty old dungeon corner - I suspect that instead the placement of their bodies and phylacteries was a foremost consideration during their transcension, they would be inaccessible, locked, trapped, warded, they would remain safely intact and undisturbed for as long as possible.
By extension, I would expect that the existence and locations of demi-lich remains are secrets known to very very few, perhaps lost to all but the memories of the gods. Discovering such hidden secrets might involve consulting with fiends or deities, travelling through the planes, travelling through time ... indeed, the demi-lair itself might only be accessible outside of normal time and space. In short; hunting a particular demi-lich should take as much research and preparation as hunting down a particular ancient dragon. No easy feat, since it's safe to assume the demi-lich (or more accurately, the uber-lich who was evolving - through supernatural instinct or through choice - into the demi-lich) simply sat and contemplated the impossibly fine details of his impending transformation over the course of many lifetimes.
Just a note, Ythazz Buvaar is at least one "known" demi-lich in the realms (though known is a misnomer, since his prison is somewhat a secret). I always felt since he named Thay after Thayd that he must have known the man... and possibly even opened the orcgate. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 08:09:16
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quote: Originally posted by Seravin
I always wanted to know more about Dracoliches surviving. Like the two (or three?) that Shandril kills in Spellfire, none of them had the Phylacteries destroyed, so they all still live, right? I think I read about them suriving in the 3rd Edition Draconomicon book anyway. Sorry if this is too off topic!
I think Malygris still survives, doing some errands for the Most High. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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