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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 20:53:31
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Do you believe deities power comes solely from worship? Or a combination of other things? (Such as possession of a portfolio and so forth) How did Lolth become a Greater Power after her silence if worship is the only way to gain power?
Ed said its mortal shorthand, but in subsequently published materials it has become clear possession of portfolios is important. Another example would be the fact that multiple deities want to take moander's portfolios from Finder's possession. It seems pretty clear to me that the possession of portfolios grants power, otherwise they would not matter. Why would the tablets of fate matter if not? They were stolen to expand the power of the thieves.
The possession of a portfolio grants powers like "Portfolio sense", deity abilities, and creating items. Which all seem important components of a deities power. Maybe Talona can't give her High Priest a staff of withering if she doesn't possess the portfolio of decay?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 21:42:56
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| For the record, the Tablets of Fate were stolen because Bane & Friends mistakenly believed they were a source of power. Ao's casual destruction of the Tablets, and the prior failure of Bane & Friends to benefit from their theft, pretty clearly shows that there was no power in the Tablets. |
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MisterX
Learned Scribe
Germany
118 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 21:53:17
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| Aren't the portfolios connected to the mortal's worship? Isn't e.g. Tempus venerated for him being a God of War (= a god with the 'War'-Portfolio)? I'd say that most of the mortals chose their patrons for their portfolios – so a new portfolio equals a source of many new followers… |
I've lost track of recent realmslore, since my campaigns are still in the 1370ies. :-)
---
When talking about rules (and related stuff) I always refer to 3.5e unless explicitly noted. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 22:21:01
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Well though the versions deity power has been discussed, never fully explained.
Factors identified appear to include.
1) Number of followers
2) Degree of devotion received from followers and others.
3) Power acquired from other deities stolen or granted.
4) The way of deities that no mortal can understand.
I might have missed a few, however it must be remembered that even if a mortal has a patron deity they will give devotion to other deities. A deity of magic gets some devotion from all that use magic for example. A large portfolio like nature get devotion from farmers and wild elves, for different reasons on the face of it, however both want things to grow. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 09 Aug 2011 22:38:26 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 07:37:57
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While the portfolios indeed do matter, so does worship by the gods' followers. If people forget a god or kill all his followers, then in time he'd cease to exist, or become nothing but a mere whisper in the wind, like what happened to some gods mentioned in The Simbul's Gift. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 09:24:24
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| They gain power from knowledge, experience, artifacts, deals with similar entities, finding Ao's loopholes |
z455t |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 13:55:02
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I agree that most deities rely on direct mortal worship. Especially exarchs and lesser deities with small divine reach need to set their faithfull to frequent worship.
However, some Gods do get stronger without direct worship, and I suspect they are infact ascended Primordials in a way. For example Selune could be seen as a primordial-goddess of Light, and would gain power from every light source ignited in her divine reach over Toril.
Kossuth and Istishia are good examples of dieties/primordials that don't rely on worship originated from the primes. Their primary worship source is based largely in the elemental planes or Abeir. |
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Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 14:29:47
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| Deities derive their power entirely from the needs of whatever author is writing at the moment, regardless of logic or consistency. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 14:37:06
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| Actually it might be possible greater deities receive some power in worship from lessor deities. Example all deities use magic, thus power given to deity of magic. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 04:46:24
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I don't really understand what a primordial is, and ignore primordials/returned Abeir, etc.
Kentinal that is what I think (that by farming you are worshiping Chauntea, by murdering you are indirectly worshiping Cyric, etc.) But do any works/ realms books actually say this? |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 11:45:24
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I like the concept of a deity as being representative of a certain facet of reality, and thus deriving power from that. So Tempus is war, for example (or, rather, Tempus is the result of a mortal perception of war, which in turn influences Tempus' nature and deeds through worship). For that reason, it should be very difficult to permanently kill a god, because it's like trying to kill part of reality. At best, you might be able to kill that personification of the aspect (e.g. a god without worship will slowly lose cohesion and fade back into the concept it was birthed from), but that is a far cry from actually killing that which it represents.
That's just my interpretation, though. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 22:16:01
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| Yes I agree. Which might explain why Targus is still alive as Garagos even though Tempus usurped his portfolio. |
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glitter
Acolyte
France
45 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2011 : 15:30:34
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Do you believe deities power comes solely from worship? Or a combination of other things? (Such as possession of a portfolio and so forth) How did Lolth become a Greater Power after her silence if worship is the only way to gain power?
Ed said its mortal shorthand, but in subsequently published materials it has become clear possession of portfolios is important.
IIRC, at the end of the time of troubles, AO made some changes of the "deific rules" and since then, gaining worshippers is more important (ask that to Gilgeam), but for what I understood and remember, is not the only aspects.
Portfolio is something that should comes to mind, but i suspect that if "worship" (i.e showing respect to one god) is one of the main source of divine power, fear is another one.
I mean, an evil god, with portfolio like 'death' or 'illness' etc, how can it attract the worship of lots of people ? No, it's just many many people fear death, fear darkness.
Well, it's how I play in my game. Finding a priest of Shar isn't an easy task
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-The black knight is invincible!
- You’re a looney. |
Edited by - glitter on 15 Aug 2011 15:32:16 |
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The source of deific power
