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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Jun 2011 : 14:26:20
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Do any undead besides liches have souls?
Is the Undead state reversible?
I would think there should be a spell(albeit high or epic level) that reverts undead to a live state.
If incorporeal undead are encountered on the astral or ethereal plane are they essentially harmless there. Normal "solid" beings?
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2011 : 15:20:52
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| Having read all of the Jander Sunstar short stories by Christie Golden in various Realms of anthologies, I would say that for the most part at least vampirism is not reversible, at least in 2E (that being when those novels were written). That being said, I seem to remember there being a drow vampire NPC in the City of the Spider Queen adventure whom if killed, is then resurrected as a mortal (and maybe turned into a vampire again shortly after, but I am not sure on that bit as it has been years since I read through that adventure). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
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My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
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* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2011 : 16:25:57
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As I recall, Van Richten's Guide to Vampires makes some mention of the possibility of using raise dead or resurrection upon vampires. The passage is worded in a cleverly ambiguous manner which ultimately seems to place final rulings on the matter up to individual DMs.
My interpretation is that using such magics on an undead creature merely turns it into a dead one; the "soul" is no longer constrained/linked by a physical body and does whatever such souls naturally do upon death. Perhaps it might even have a chance to turn into a ghost/spectre/banshee/revenant/whatever under exacting conditions, just as would any other soul at the moment of death.
2E defined distinctions between souls, spirits, anima, essences, etc ... really, not an issue at all unless something dead needs to become alive or interactive again, or the characters will travel to the outer planes which host "eternal" afterlife. The mysterious (and somewhat sadistic) powers of Ravenloft would likely manipulate events so that "curing" vampirism is utterly impossible within their domains, for both Strahd (a human with a soul) and for Jander (an elf with a spirit). |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 22 Jun 2011 16:26:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2011 : 17:16:39
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| The 2E sourcebook Elves of Evermeet had a 9th-level High Magic spell called Gift of Life, which would restore an undead critter to life. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Jun 2011 17:17:06 |
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Suru
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2011 : 22:15:09
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At least one Deity has been known to temporarily reverse Vampirism under specific circumstances in one of the canon short stories. The restriction was having to remain in a specific place. Later the ex-vampire decided to leave that place to protect some local monks or priested that were under attack. He immediately reverted back into a vampire. I can think of a few creative ways to cure Undead status using the core rules, but its more like exploiting a technicality. I would not allow it as a DM unless it was storyline driven. There are ways to prevent vampirism though, like resurrection before the few day waiting period. However not many exist for established vampires. I've heard someone mention that once in a campaign they used reincarnate to return a Lich to mortality in a new body and then killed him, since they could not find where he had stashed his soul. So reincarnate may be a possibility. Resurrection requires participants be willing in most cases (There are cases of souls refusing resurrection.)
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2011 : 22:51:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Suru
At least one Deity has been known to temporarily reverse Vampirism under specific circumstances in one of the canon short stories.
Yeah, that is one of the Jander Sunstar short stories I was talking about above.  |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2011 : 23:27:37
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I won't go into too much detail, as to avoid spoilers, but I know in the Balder's Gate II video game - at a certain point - one of your party members gets turned into a Vampire, which you then have to kill. Later, you can take their corpse to an ancient temple to Amaunator, perform a ritual, and the party member will be resurrected and be cured of vampirism.
This may or may not be canon. The reason I bring it up is because there were a set of novels written based on the games, and this may or may not have been included in those novels. What's more the situation may have been extremely unique, due to certain other actions which you do in the area. However, if nothing else, it can prove that a deity - at least one of them (and potentially more) - can cure vampirism if desired. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2011 : 07:04:09
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| I believe the guide Libris Mortis has very good info on undead traits, physiology, psychology, aspects of soul, their creation. I think you will find some answers in it. All thumbs up for this resource. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2011 : 07:10:04
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Reincarnation is equivalent to reformatting the soul. Vestiges of old data might remain but are generally inaccessible without resorting to extraordinary recovery methods.
I suppose wish could reverse vampirism, although it might be best to do so in a timely manner. Of course this spell does not exist in some D&D editions, so technical loopholes and divine interference are the only other options left. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2011 : 07:28:24
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Oooh! Oooh!
I remember a quest with a rift that can revert the undead state and cure from vampirism. I do not remember correctly, but it is a type of dimensional anomaly, usually heavily guarded by lawful neutral creatures. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2011 : 21:24:49
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I would venture to say that each Undead has a specific set of conditions and circumstances, and so the answer to these questions is pretty much up to the interpretation of the DM.
in my Setting, Vampires have a Soul, but that Soul is dead. they are essentially a Ghost living inside their own body. they have no Spirit, which is why they need to feed on the Lifeforce of other living Creatures. Reincarnation would not work on them at all. Ressurection would require their consent to work, and the effect would be to have their Soul torn out of the body and, as Arik put it above, do whatever Souls normally do after Death. thus, killing the Vampire. after the fact, however, a slain Vampire can be Raised or Ressurected as normal.
Ghosts are simply Memories, or Psychic imprints. they are a disembodied Soul that cannot (or will not) pass on, for whatever reason (no Undead in my setting has a Spirit, in the sense of Lifeforce). the Rejuvinate over and over because they have "unfinished business". finishing this business becomes tricky, however, because being Undead slowly deteriorates a being's logic and sanity. and no matter what you do to a Ghost, it will keep coming back until it's satisfied. for this reason, the Restless Dead are a serious nuisance.
Revenants have always reminded me of Zin-Carla... the only difference I can see being that they aren't controlled by some priestess (or rather, tug-o-war controlled). however, I hae recently read Heroes of Shadow, which made clear the differences in their section on properly roleplaying a Revenant character.
Wraiths or embodiments of Emotion or Sin. essentially a Phantom Aspect of a deceased, rather than any actual part of that person. just an echo.
your probably getting the idea now. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Undead questions
