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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
 Posted - 25 May 2011 : 12:34:32
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The Twilight War characters were even more bland than those in Erevis Cale
where does it say that Skullport has a mythallar? |
z455t |
Edited by - Kno on 25 May 2011 12:41:05 |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2011 : 13:09:34
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Well it could be expected because all enclaves had mythallars, but City of Splendors speaks of Skullport having a mythal. If this is nor error than everything THO said would apply there.
quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril
Sorry for the double post, but I was hoping someone could clarify something for me:
Sargauth was *never* a flying enclave, right? It was an underground research center, built near a dwarven mining operation, and was crushed by the Fall... right?
Yes thats true. |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2011 : 15:00:34
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As an FYI: It's been a while, but I recall considering Nhalloth for use in Midnight's Mask and The Twilight War, but chose instead to use Sakkors. Nhalloth was not geographically where I wanted it, was in (relatively) shallow waters, and had been picked clean by treasure hunters over the years. Sakkors, on the other hand, was in deeper water, and was not only not picked over, but was known for unpredictable/wild magical phenomena. That fit in with what I wanted to do with The Source. Of course, to use Sakkors that way meant that I had to treat as incorrect (or grossly exaggerated, or based on a misperception by the SoFS chronicler that resulted from the weird energies associated with the Source) the description of Sakkors as little more than rubble. After a good deal of thought, I decided to do that (though I tried to finesse it some, in that the underwater scenes with Sakkors do portray a long trench of rubble and ruins gouged into the sea floor, before ending in a largely intact mountaintop).
Obviously, folks are free to like, dislike, or be indifferent to that decision. So it goes. :-) |
Edited by - PaulSKemp on 25 May 2011 15:01:45 |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2011 : 15:14:35
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| Well I didn't had a problem with it and enjoyed reading the books :) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2011 : 17:15:58
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For the record, I think Erevis Cale and Twilight War are some of the best fantasy that has seen publication in FR or anywhere in the genre.
This has been an interesting topic, but if we're going to start badmouthing novels, then I'm going to gracefully absent myself. No hard feelings. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2011 : 17:49:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
For the record, I think Erevis Cale and Twilight War are some of the best fantasy that has seen publication in FR or anywhere in the genre.
This has been an interesting topic, but if we're going to start badmouthing novels, then I'm going to gracefully absent myself. No hard feelings.
Cheers
Agreed. We shouldn't have gotten sidetracked on my own personal likes or dislikes.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2011 : 18:10:37
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All,
I fear I've come across in a way I didn't intend. I jumped onto the thread only because I wanted to clarify that using Sakkors the way I did reflected a deliberate choice after doing the research (i.e., I considered but rejected Nhalloth). That may make the decision better or worse, depending upon your point of view, but I just wanted the back story to be clear.
On a more general note: Please know that I have no issues at all with folks who don't like my novels/characters and who write posts to that effect. No worries! I've been doing this a long time and hearing/reading things from readers for whom my stories didn't work is something that comes with the gig. I just write the best story I can and send it out there. And once it's out there, it belongs to the readers, to opine about as they will. :-) |
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
124 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2011 : 19:25:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
For the record, I think Erevis Cale and Twilight War are some of the best fantasy that has seen publication in FR or anywhere in the genre.
This has been an interesting topic, but if we're going to start badmouthing novels, then I'm going to gracefully absent myself. No hard feelings.
Cheers
Agreed and Agreed.
I thought it was pretty clear why Paul chose Sakkors, and the relevant pages in Sea of Fallen Stars gives anyone digging into the source material plenty of artistic elbow-room. I would've came to the same conclusion as Paul, given the source material and same goal. In addition, when reading The Twilight War, I got the feeling the Sakkors was *much* smaller than Thultanthar.
Anyway, props to Mr. Kemp for writing one of the best series in the FR Novel line, and props to Mr. Schend for writing a sourcebook so lore-rich we scribes are still discussing a handful of sentences 12 years later! |
Brace Cormaeril |
Edited by - Saer Cormaeril on 25 May 2011 20:32:48 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 13:05:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril
Anyway, props to Mr. Kemp for writing one of the best series in the FR Novel line, and props to Mr. Schend for writing a sourcebook so lore-rich we scribes are still discussing a handful of sentences 12 years later!
-Hear, hear. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 13:38:14
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@Paul - I am one of those people that would find fault with God. 
And I still think that you are one of the best authors I have EVER read, despite my numerous quibbles. I hope you realize that. You are one of the few FR authors that I think can survive outside of the 'game novel' genre.
Would I have preferred some of the details in your works be different? Of course... I feel that way about everything I read. But at no point did I feel disappointment or a desire to put the book down.
Back On Topic: I know the other Netherease enclave saved was done so by divine intervention, and I suspect that shade was saved by Shar, regardless of the lack of lore saying that. The Gods can do certain things (even with Mythalars) that mortals cannot.
That being said, I believe Ed's point may have been missed; Skullport contains a Mythal, NOT a Mythalar. IIRC, the existing Mythal was modified by them, and then further modified by Halaster (who practices IMASKARI magic, NOT Netherease). Aside from Halaster, there is no one being anywhere that knows enough about that Mythal (including the Elves that created it) to do anything with it without endangering themselves and everyone else.
Mythalars can be easily moved - most of them were in mobile sky-enclaves. Theoretically they could shift into other planes (including other Prime Worlds), BUT any world that the Weave did not extend into may have caused them severe problems (although their magic was based on the Nether scrolls, which were written pre-Weave, AFAIK). Mythals, on the other hand, are based on Elven High magic, which is probably Fey magic, which means it needs to be anchored to a physical place.
For instance, had any of them managed to move a city into Ravenloft, the city would have only remained aloft if the 'Dark Powers' wished it to be so. The rules of magic change from world to world in D&D.
I have to wonder about the other surviving enclaves Ed mentioned. I created one of my own off the coast of Kara-Tur (submerged), but I hadn't realized their were other official enclaves still existing aside from the two we know about.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 May 2011 14:06:25 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 14:16:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have to wonder about the other surviving enclaves Ed mentioned. I created one of my own off the coast of Kara-Tur (submerged), but I hadn't realized their were other official enclaves still existing aside from the two we know about.
Shade, Selunarra, Nhalloth, Sakkors, and the one in Erik's book... Another one is rumored to lie in Firedrake Bay, in Tethyr. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 14:31:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I know the other Netherease enclave saved was done so by divine intervention, and I suspect that shade was saved by Shar, regardless of the lack of lore saying that. The Gods can do certain things (even with Mythalars) that mortals cannot.
-Given that newer, 3e information implied that Shar may or may have not influenced Karsus in developing Karsus' Avatar, it would make sense for Shar to be involved in the transport of Shade to the Plane of Shadows in some manner- especially if Prince Rivalen was already a priest in her service.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That being said, I believe Ed's point may have been missed; Skullport contains a Mythal, NOT a Mythalar. IIRC, the existing Mythal was modified by them, and then further modified by Halaster (who practices IMASKARI magic, NOT Netherease). Aside from Halaster, there is no one being anywhere that knows enough about that Mythal (including the Elves that created it) to do anything with it without endangering themselves and everyone else.
-It is/was protected by a spell mantle created by the Netherese in an attempt to mimic Elven mythals. Netheril: Empire of Magic uses the term mythallar and 'mantle' as somewhat synonymous. For example, concerning the first one created by Ioulaum, it says, "The first of these quasimagical items was created in 848 by Ioulaum himself. He created an elaborate mantle that allowed the wearer to see in the dark and hear the thoughts of all those within 20 feet". That sourcebook has plenty of it's own flaws, and I think using 'mythallar' and 'mantle' as synonymous is one of them, but...Also, the same source implies heavily that a 'Netherese Enclave' was a city that contained a mythallar, as opposed to the mundane cities of Low Netheril that didn't* have one, so...Circumstantial evidence that Skullport has/had a mythallar powering it in some capacity- possibly in conjunction with other magical fields present in Undermountain.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Theoretically they could shift into other planes (including other Prime Worlds)...
-Not theoretically. Factually. The Shade Enclave and Selūnarra both plane shifted out of the Material Plane, into the Plane of Shadows and Gates of the Moon, respectively. How that might impact the functioning of their mythallars is up to debate, but, with those two specific cases, we know that both did indeed leave the Prime, and both mythallars continued functioning.
*Sure, Sargauth/Skullport wasn't a floating enclave, as Netheril: Empire of Magic implies all Netherese Enclaves were, but the aquatic city was an Enclave, and didn't float in the sky either, so...
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Shade, Selunarra, Nhalloth, Sakkors, and the one in Erik's book... Another one is rumored to lie in Firedrake Bay, in Tethyr.
-Nagareth.
-There's also Undrentide, from Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide, that got a mention in The Grand History of the Realms, making it's name and existence canon, as opposed to what happened in the video games, which didn't, and thus, isn't. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 26 May 2011 14:34:54 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 14:59:48
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I was only counting Shade and Selunarra - I was not counting destroyed ones (because THO/Ed seems to be hinting at other, INTACT enclaves somewhere).
As for my usage of the word 'theoretical' - I meant from a crunch standpoint it is possible, ergo it backs-up some of the fluffy bits.
And I believe that Illefarn had a Mythal established at that location LONG before the Netherease ever showed up. If they did indeed create a Mythalar there (rather then modifying the existing mythal), I think we have the rather unique situation of a mythal stacked on top of a Mythalar (physically - chronologically it would be the other way around). The Mythal exists - the countless portals throughout Waterdeep and Undermountain are testimony to the ancient Illefarn magics present.
And this line of thought has now got me contemplating a possible ancient usage of Skullport (what was its original name?) - Perhaps the Illefarn Elves had something akin to an 'underground railroad' for (Miyeritar) Dark Elves trying to escape Vyshaantar persecution.
Just a stray thought, nothing more. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 14:59:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
especially if Prince Rivalen was already a priest in her service.
Didn't he kill his mother before the fall? Though he did it in Shars service it would seem that he allready was her priest.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
Also, the same source implies heavily that a 'Netherese Enclave' was a city that contained a mythallar, as opposed to the mundane cities of Low Netheril that didn't* have one, so...Circumstantial evidence that Skullport has/had a mythallar powering it in some capacity- possibly in conjunction with other magical fields present in Undermountain.
Well as said before City of Splendors explicitly says that Skullport has a mythal.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Shade, Selunarra, Nhalloth, Sakkors, and the one in Erik's book... Another one is rumored to lie in Firedrake Bay, in Tethyr.
-Nagareth.
-There's also Undrentide, from Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide, that got a mention in The Grand History of the Realms, making it's name and existence canon, as opposed to what happened in the video games, which didn't, and thus, isn't.
What was the name of the enclave thats now warlocks crypt? |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 26 May 2011 15:00:59 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 15:03:03
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It wasn't (IIRC) - Larloch's enclave crashed somewhere in the Narfell area (sorry - I am sourceless so thats the best I can do ATM).
Although I do recall something about him finding the place and taking it over...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 15:26:50
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| Yes I don't think warlocks crypt is Larlochs old enclave but it is a crashed netherese enclave which he took over after defeating its old master. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 16:45:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And I believe that Illefarn had a Mythal established at that location LONG before the Netherease ever showed up. If they did indeed create a Mythalar there (rather then modifying the existing mythal), I think we have the rather unique situation of a mythal stacked on top of a Mythalar (physically - chronologically it would be the other way around). The Mythal exists - the countless portals throughout Waterdeep and Undermountain are testimony to the ancient Illefarn magics present.
-A mythal and a mythallar operating "stacked", I don't think that'd be anything particularly special. The mythal would go and do it was 'programmed' to do, and the mythallar would do what it was 'programmed' to do. On a way smaller scale, but it'd be like someone with personal wards or mantles walking around in Silverymoon. The lesser ones don't seem to be amplified, augmented, or whatever else, by the city-wide ones. Like having a remote control toy car, and a radio. Both use radio waves, but operate differently, and exist on different wave frequencies, so they don't really overlap or interfere with each other. That'd just be my guess, though.
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Didn't he kill his mother before the fall? Though he did it in Shars service it would seem that he allready was her priest.
-Not sure. "Continuum", from Realms of War the short story where Rivalen does the deed. I can't find my copy, to see if it's dated before the Fall or after.
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Well as said before City of Splendors explicitly says that Skullport has a mythal.
-Right. And N:EoM uses 'mantle' and 'mythallar' synonymously, in conjunction with the fact that precedence seems to show that named Enclaves, as the Sargauth Enclave was, had mythallar within them, leading me to believe that it had a mythallar, in conjunction.
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
What was the name of the enclave thats now warlocks crypt?
-Good question. I don't think we have a name for it. All I know about Warlock's Crypt is that it's a mispronunciation of 'Larloch's Crypt', which still doesn't shed much light on anything. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 26 May 2011 16:56:43 |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 17:04:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Not sure. "Continuum", from Realms of War the short story where Rivalen does the deed. I can't find my copy, to see if it's dated before the Fall or after.
Ah thanks for the reference. I just checked it and it happened -365 DR so it was before the fall of Netheril. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2011 : 01:33:52
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
especially if Prince Rivalen was already a priest in her service.
Didn't he kill his mother before the fall? Though he did it in Shars service it would seem that he allready was her priest.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
Also, the same source implies heavily that a 'Netherese Enclave' was a city that contained a mythallar, as opposed to the mundane cities of Low Netheril that didn't* have one, so...Circumstantial evidence that Skullport has/had a mythallar powering it in some capacity- possibly in conjunction with other magical fields present in Undermountain.
Well as said before City of Splendors explicitly says that Skullport has a mythal.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Shade, Selunarra, Nhalloth, Sakkors, and the one in Erik's book... Another one is rumored to lie in Firedrake Bay, in Tethyr.
-Nagareth.
-There's also Undrentide, from Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide, that got a mention in The Grand History of the Realms, making it's name and existence canon, as opposed to what happened in the video games, which didn't, and thus, isn't.
What was the name of the enclave thats now warlocks crypt?
Orbedal is the name of the enclave.
Lost Empires of Faerun pg 102
Gives a description of Larloch's main enemy, and how they dueled, he lost and became the first of 60+ liches Larloch bound to his will. He then claimed the ruins as his own and it became the warlock's Crypt |
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
124 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2011 : 03:00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-It is/was protected by a spell mantle created by the Netherese in an attempt to mimic Elven mythals. Netheril: Empire of Magic uses the term mythallar and 'mantle' as somewhat synonymous. For example, concerning the first one created by Ioulaum, it says, "The first of these quasimagical items was created in 848 by Ioulaum himself. He created an elaborate mantle that allowed the wearer to see in the dark and hear the thoughts of all those within 20 feet".
Lord K, the tri-partite fractioning of your soul must have weakened your memory a bit. Remember that Ioulaums's 'mantle' was a physical mantle, like a cloak. And was a quasi-magical device. It was not a 'spell mantle', like the elves wove.
Still, no one is talking about Netherese mythals. The kind that one gets when one casts Lefebers Weave Mythal...
Edit: I think you're thinking of Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves, Lord K, as that source which uses 'mantle' and 'mythal' some-what synonymously.
2nd Edit: Isn't the existence of Lefebers Weave Mythal a pretty good indication that the Netherese were, well, weaving mythals?
(As well as mythallar.) |
Brace Cormaeril |
Edited by - Saer Cormaeril on 27 May 2011 04:09:58 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2011 : 04:42:25
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Perhaps the Netherese, being proud, wanted to disassociate their brand of magic from the elves', that's why they call it mantle, instead of mythal. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
124 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2011 : 05:17:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Perhaps the Netherese, being proud, wanted to disassociate their brand of magic from the elves', that's why they call it mantle, instead of mythal.
I think they called them mantles because they were actual cloaks, used to keep rain and snow off ones back, in addition to containing multiple magical effects.
After having read a lot about mythals and mythalars in the last few days, heard the opinions of many scribes and Ed himself, I've come to believe there is little difference between mythals are mythallars; and that the difference is primarily in how they were implemented. There are more similarities between Elven High Magic mythals, Netherese mythals, Elven wizardly mythals, and Netherese mythalar than there are differences, in my opinion. |
Brace Cormaeril |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2011 : 05:21:07
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So it has been established that Skullport has both a mythal and a mythallar. Ed said it has a mythal and may have mythallar, which cannot be independent from the other. While Paul said the huge crystal in Skullport [in Dawn of Night] is a mythallar. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2011 : 07:13:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril
Lord K, the tri-partite fractioning of your soul must have weakened your memory a bit. Remember that Ioulaums's 'mantle' was a physical mantle, like a cloak. And was a quasi-magical device. It was not a 'spell mantle', like the elves wove.
...
Edit: I think you're thinking of Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves, Lord K, as that source which uses 'mantle' and 'mythal' some-what synonymously.
-Nope. Netheril: Empire of Magic was the sourcebook that the quote was taken from, and it pertained to Ioulaum creating the first mythallar. Page six, of the first book.
"The Mythallar
Ioulaum proved his importance in the year 845, when he created the mythallar...The first of these quasimagical items was created in 848 by Ioulaum himself. He created an elaborate mantle that allowed the wearer to see in the dark and hear the thoughts of all those within 20 feet..." |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2011 : 17:45:52
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The Mythal was at the surface, and created by the ancient elves that once dwelt there. It would have extended only a certain amount underground.
The mythallar would have been created by the Sargauth Enclave Netherease. It would have only encompassed the enclave, which is modern-day Skullport and the nearby environs. The two may have - and probably did - meet at a certain point.
According to what Ed added (through THO), the two would have merged if they touched. However, I am not sure if he meant both complete areas would have been effected, or only the region of overlap.
The ancient Mythal centered on Mount Waterdeep (IIRC) may have been enhanced throughout the MANY centuries by later elves (who added numerous portal/gates), and the Mythallar would have been enhanced/modified by Halaster (a master of a completely different type of magic then the two previous groups).
We are talking about a very complicated, beyond-mortal-ken magical field-effect that has different properties in different areas, including wild magic regions, amongst other things.
In other words, the Shades trying to 'fix' the mythallar there would be like a modern nation trying to disarm a WMD designed by an unknown race - it is more then likely that many lives would be lost with a chance of very little gain; it would probably just blow-up in their faces. Seeing what happened to the wizards that became the Skulls, what Netherease mage is going to start tinkering with that mess? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 May 2011 17:46:09 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2011 : 18:52:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Seeing what happened to the wizards that became the Skulls, what Netherease mage is going to start tinkering with that mess?
-The power craving, "I'm-not-going-to-err-like-they-did" kind. AKA, most of them!  |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
124 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2011 : 23:15:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Nope. Netheril: Empire of Magic was the sourcebook that the quote was taken from, and it pertained to Ioulaum creating the first mythallar. Page six, of the first book.
"The Mythallar
Ioulaum proved his importance in the year 845, when he created the mythallar...The first of these quasimagical items was created in 848 by Ioulaum himself. He created an elaborate mantle that allowed the wearer to see in the dark and hear the thoughts of all those within 20 feet..."
Oh, ok. It's just that in Netheril: Empire of Magic, 'mantle is used thusly:
Winds of Netheril pg 4.
They werent going to give up the mantle without a fight. Thus spake Larloch.
"The mantle?" he continued.
"Szass reached into a pouch and pulled from its magical confines a metal vest enveloped in a violet glow. Larlochs red eyes shimmered
briefly for a moment,determining the magic surrounding
the mantle to be a form of preservation spell."
Winds of Netheril pg. 6
"With the advent of the mythallar, arcanists were able to create
magical items that would, in effect, be permanent incantations as long as they stayed within the one-mile-radius effect of the mythallar. The first of these quasimagical items was created in 848 by Ioulaum himself. He created an elaborate mantle that allowed the wearer to see in the dark and hear the thoughts of all those within 20 feet."
Winds of Netheril pg. 16
"While Netherese arcanists created bulky scepters and mantles to harness magical power, the Cormanthyr elves created slim staves and other magical fineries that harnessed the power of Mystryls weave."
Winds of Netheril pg. 23
gives 'Md'hals mantle' the Netherese counterpart of 'Guards and wards'.
Winds of Netheril pg. 27
gives the date of the above spells formulation
Winds of Netheril pg. 50
"Priestly Vestments: The ceremonial garb of Mystrylan priests was simple blue robes that sparkled and glistened mystically of their own accord or displayed flowing rainbows of color. They were accented by a cloak of deep blue in colder climates.
Mystrylans went bare-headed, and usually wore their hair long, whether male or female, though either gender frequently caught their hair at the nape of the neck with a hair ornament or tie of some kind. The blue-white star of Mystryl was worn most typically on a ring or as a necklace to serve as a holy symbol. The use of mantles and scepters (those used by the archwizards and other arcanists) was quite common."
Winds of Netheril pg. 60
"At 7th level, bloodreavers had the ability to cast blood mantle
(as the 4th-level priest spell) once a day"
Winds of Netheril pg. 82
"Opus was established in 1933 by the mentalist Chever, who spent most of his time trying to acquire knowledge after creating his contact other plane spell. It finally cost him his life in 1960, when repeated contacts with an extraplanar being drove him insane and he leaped into a sphere of annihilation. Other arcanists quickly assumed the mantle of leadership, and Opus continued to produce some of the best bards, musicians, poets, and scholars ever known in Netheril."
Winds of Netheril pg. 105
"Yousouf's Grocery
A retired adventurer, Yousouf (NG hf F6) decided it was time to
place the sword above the mantle when he suffered a debilitating
injuryhe lost his shield hand from an ogres blade, lost almost
half his intestines from the hungry fangs of a mountain lion as he
lay on a frozen glacier waiting for death to take him, and lost
most of his toes from frostbite as his rescuers were dragging him
to Yeomans Loft."
Netheril:Encyclopedia Arcana pg. 2
Under quasi-magical items, mantles are listed as being listed on page 4.
Netheril: Encyclopedia Arcana pg. 2
The 'Blood Mantle' spell is stated to be described on page 17
Netheril: Encyclopedia Arcana pg. 3
"keep in mind that Netherese magical items were large and bulky consisting of many mantles gauntlets and scepters."
Netheril: Encyclopedia Arcana pg. 4
"Mantles normally appeared as thick cloaks with sewn-metal trimming of silver or gold."
*Note, most of this page is dedicated to mantles, with the word 'mantle' occurring 16 times on this page. Of note:
"Ioulaums mantle: In 848 NY, Ioulaum created the first quasimagical
mantle that produced material components for a spell.
The hood allowed him to see in the dark (60-foot range) and hear
the thoughts of all those within 20 feet."
Netheril: Encyclopedia Arcana pg. 11
"The material components for this spell included a mantle of
sewn diamonds that acted as double-strength ring of fire restitance,
a helm of brilliance, and a mythallar, which was placed at
the site of the volcano." -Refers to 'Mavin's Create Volcano'.
Netheril: Encyclopedia Arcana pgs. 17-18
describes the spell 'Blood Mantle'. (Which creates an actual magic cloak)
So anyway, I think it's pretty clear, Lord Karsus, that back in your day, amongst your people, 'mantle' referred to an actual quasi-magical device, not the elves mystic mantles of spell-energy. You probably just snipped this quote,
"The Mythallar... Ioulaum proved his importance in the year 845, when he created the mythallar...The first of these quasimagical items was created in 848 by Ioulaum himself. He created an elaborate mantle that allowed the wearer to see in the dark and hear the thoughts of all those within 20 feet..."
in the wrong place, and that lead to the confusion.
Anyway, being only 1/3 of an extremely old being probably has an extreme effect on one's memory of one's early life, so I say, 'No harm-no foul'.
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Brace Cormaeril |
Edited by - Saer Cormaeril on 28 May 2011 23:16:46 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2011 : 03:52:20
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--The original context of this being brought up was "...Netheril: Empire of Magic uses the term 'mythallar' and 'mantle' as somewhat synonymous", and that using the terms synonymously, as it did at certain parts, was a flaw of the book, because 'Spell Mantles' (and clothing, as in literal clothing) and 'Mythallars' are/were two separate things. Similar, but different, just like oranges and tangerines are both similar looking/tasting citrus fruits, but different. The book shouldn't do that, when it does.
Netheril: Empire of Magic
The Winds of Netheril
"The Mythallar"
"Ioulaum proved his importance in the year 845, when he created the mythallar. This magical device dug deep into the weave of magic (controlled by the goddess Mystryl) and gave access to raw, unfiltered magic. It allowed Netherese arcanists to create magical items without need of a permanency spell and provided the constant magical force that allowed entire mountains to hover in the air.
Before this device was created, Netherese arcanists could place only simple dweomers on small objects with limited abilities at the supreme cost of a mages vitality. In times before the mythallar, arcanists who made multiple permanent magical items could be picked out of the crowd: Their bodies appeared much older and bent than their years. The process of making an item with permanent effects took its power from the mages body, a process not many arcanists were willing to succumb to.
With the advent of the mythallar, arcanists were able to create magical items that would, in effect, be permanent incantations as long as they stayed within the one-mile-radius effect of the mythallar. The first of these quasimagical items was created in 848 by Ioulaum himself. He created an elaborate mantle that allowed the wearer to see in the dark and hear the thoughts of all those within 20 feet.
Once this magical item was created, the floodgates were opened, and the nation of Netheril was suddenly faced with a glut of magical items. The prices of such quasimagical items dropped to one-tenth the going rate for real magical items. The cost of traditional magical creationsthose that required a permanency spellrose to three-times the going rate, since only those who left the range of a mythallar required such items." |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 29 May 2011 03:52:51 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2011 : 08:18:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Seeing what happened to the wizards that became the Skulls, what Netherease mage is going to start tinkering with that mess?
-The power craving, "I'm-not-going-to-err-like-they-did" kind. AKA, most of them!
And Telamont has expendable lackeys who would gladly undertake the risky job. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2011 : 10:48:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Seeing what happened to the wizards that became the Skulls, what Netherease mage is going to start tinkering with that mess?
-The power craving, "I'm-not-going-to-err-like-they-did" kind. AKA, most of them!
And Telamont has expendable lackeys who would gladly undertake the risky job.
Nope. Telamont tries to minimize losses wherever he can because Shade has too few in number to afford to lose.
And for all the previous reasons I outlined, Shade could not permanently take Scullport |
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Why did they not seize Skullport?
