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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 19:56:21
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In the 2e accessory Pirates of the Fallen Stars, there is a passage through time in the island of Lurath. It leads potential adventurers to a time in which the islands are part of a chain of mountains, where one can find dinosaurs, cavemen and friendly elves (I think it is implied there that they would be wild elves).
Since the sourcebook is a bit old and I don't think the author works with WoTC, I thought maybe someone here could help me finding out the approximate age/date of the portal's destiny (it is back from the "Days of Thunder"? In the "Time of Dragons"? How many years ago?).
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"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 20:25:04
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The Time of the Dragons was also known as the Dawn Ages around -30,000 DR.
I remember reading something about a Time Portal somewhere recently in the Realms. It was located around some volcanic mountain or rift. I can't recall any details at the moment. |
"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 21:24:31
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I found these references I read from a year or so ago at Wizards Realms Lore Forum. These are a few other Time Portal sources that were mentioned.
Countdown to the Realms articles:
ANDRIO'S GATE: The [Vilhon] Reach happens to contain one of Toril's few functioning time gates; a useful tool for bringing characters forward beyond the Wailing Years (1385 DR to 1395 DR) to a more stable time period for campaign play. The time gate is located within Mount Andrus, a volcanic peak within the Orsraun Mountains on Turmish's western frontier. There the time gate has survived millennia despite several volcanic eruptions, shielded from the monstrous heat and the effects of the Spellplague by powerful, and some would say divine, wards. Adrio's Gate is activated by speaking the name of a year as given in the Roll of Years then stepping through the gate's event horizon.
That gate was also mentioned in the 2e Netheril Boxed Set:
The final gateway is listed as existing at “..Andrio’s Peak near the garden of Eldath.” A scribe actually misspelled the original place name, which was Andrus, and the garden is a hint to the city of Cedarsproke in the Gulthmere forest of the Vilhon Reach. The time gate has survived inside Mt. Andrus despite several volcanic eruptions, shielded from the intense heat by Mystryl’s magic.
Also 2 other time gates are mentioned:
The first passage that reveals a hint to a time gate’s location states that it “...lies hidden upon the back of the mountains, where the ice and rocks touch the summer sky of Amaunator’s belt.” This is actually a reference to an ancient constellation of Amaunator that appeared in the summer months over the Spine of the World. An adventuring party could still spend many months in the frozen wasteland of the Spine searching for the deep cave that holds the gate, however. The time gate also happens to be the home of an ancient white dragon (who’s greedy enough to allow adventurers to use the gate so long as they pay her something).
The second time gate is “...north of Novularond, shining bright upon Misken’s Peak at Highsummer.” While the Novularond range has been searched repeatedly, adventurers have failed to find the time gate because Misken’s Peak was sheared off by the Great Glacier many centuries ago. The magical portal still exists, but it’s buried beneath hundreds of feet of ice as it’s slowly carried along within the glacier.
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"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 11:04:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrekan
The Time of the Dragons was also known as the Dawn Ages around -30,000 DR.
Thank you, Andrekan! My question is: there were cavemen and dinosaurs around in the Time of Dragons? Or maybe this portal gets you into times prior to - 30,000 DR? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 16 Mar 2011 11:05:00 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 12:30:44
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Yes to both. Dinosaurs still exist up to the present day in isolated areas (Chult, the Stonelands, isolated parts of the North), and were at least somewhat common up to a few thousand years ago. My personal theory is that they started their decline during the age of the dragons, since they would make such tasty (and large) targets for hungry things a-wing.
As for cavemen, humans are the fifth "creator race," or major race native to the planet. That means that in addition to all of the various migrations, forced or otherwise, from other planes and spheres, there were also humans who either evolved naturally, or migrated to Toril so far back as to predate practically everything else. So yes, there would be cavemen back around -30,000 DR. Their numbers would probably be low, and they'd probably be doing their best to stay very inconspicuous, what with all the very powerful monsters and empires fighting each other all around them.
On the other hand, being primitives was probably the best strategy they could have taken. Anything beyond cave-dwelling savages would have either been conquered or wiped out by their more advanced neighbors. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 12:45:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Yes to both. Dinosaurs still exist up to the present day in isolated areas (Chult, the Stonelands, isolated parts of the North), and were at least somewhat common up to a few thousand years ago. My personal theory is that they started their decline during the age of the dragons, since they would make such tasty (and large) targets for hungry things a-wing.
Thank you, Hoondatha. One more question came to me, since the islands were a chain of mountains back then: when exactly happened the event that created the Sea of Fallen Stars?
EDIT: I read over the internet that the Tearfall happened around -31,000 DR. The portal leads to times prior to this event. Since there are elves there, and assuming they didn't get there through the time portal, it must be set after the arrival of the first green elves in Faerûn. I just couldn't find when this happened. Anyone? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 16 Mar 2011 17:10:30 |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
268 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 18:09:13
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| c. -27000 DR according to The Grand History of the Realms |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
Edited by - Asharak on 16 Mar 2011 18:10:34 |
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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 06:25:27
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The Time of Dragons lasted some six millennia. Individual Dragons Ruled. Dragon clans had territories and battled rivals over land, sea, and sky. This comes from Dragons of Faerun 3E. It would be extremely dangerous times for humanoids without some representative for protection or possibly worship. This material references Elven myths that were recorded in Parwiccan Cycle, which mentions Tearfall, a meteor shower that some scholars believe caused a dramatic climate change and the events leading up to great war between Giants and Dragons.
As far as the forming of the sea, I saw a journal or a download doc of an extensive home brew material with maps and information relating to land shifts here somewhere about 4 years ago. It dealt with Damara being covered by water, Galen Mountains, Glacier movements and a dragon war campaign. Not sure any of it was Canon. It seemed more likely very creative speculation. |
"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 06:42:16
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| But an important point would be Prior to the Time of Dragons there were only Dinosaurs. Dragons hadn't yet evolved or the meteor event brought about Dragons or a change in reptiles. No one would know for sure because it's before recorded myths by dwarves and elves. At least by my reading. You may want to look into Creator Races and Saurians. |
"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 12:29:19
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Some important notes on the isle's entry:
1) It takes people to a time in which the islands are dry land - in fact, they are actually mountains;
2) There are dinosaurs (and pterosaurs) all around;
3) There are humans (cavemen) and elves there, living hidden from the beasts;
4) The land is ruled by dragons, and at least one venerable dragon (with draconic ancient magic in his hoard) knows of the portals and wants to close them, but it's too big and just can't go through the caves that lead to the time passage.
I think the most important evidence about the portal destiny's era is fact 1; however, if its timeline is placed before Tearfall, theoretically there should be no elves or dragons there.
Pirates of the Fallen Stars is an old accessory, and this small entry was most probably not considered when the timelines were designed, years after the former book's publication. However, in a highly magical setting, specially when there is a time passage around, one can easily think of some possibilities for those races to be around.
Elves: As I stated before, the elves could have come through this same portal, or stumbled there through another portal. The Grand History of the Realms says there is no evidence of elves in Toril prior to - 27,000 DR, so maybe those elves lived only for a few generations and left no evidence, maybe these clues just weren't found by "future" scholars, or maybe the record of the Lurath time traveler is not totally right, and the friendly creatures are not elves. They could be some creature akin/similar to elves (LeShay before leaving Toril? They had elven servants in this time?), or polymorphed creatures that knew of elves, or at least be capable of reading the time visitor's mind and assuming a form familiar to him.
Dragons: The dragons - or dragon, for only one is described in detail as being found - could have come through the portal when they were (he was) younger. Maybe a couple went there and reproduced in this time, but a plague or disaster kept their descendants from striving and dominating the world before the arrival - coming back? - of Asgorath (remember that the author of the sourcebook, and not the time traveler, states that the world was dominated by dragons, then). Alternatively, the portal could lead to a time before the banishing of the primordials, and the dragons of Asgorath could be in Toril - the world existed back then, right?
So, fellow sages, any other ideas? Could anyone tell me more about the banishing of primordials, or the event that caused the LeShay exodus? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 12:37:04
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| Can't help with the LeShay, sorry. I always thought that was one of the less-well-done tacking's on to the Realms. Be curious to see what others have to say, though. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 14:21:35
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| There is a Compendium here Mysteries of the Creator Races. The LeShay are in the Epic Level Handbook pg.202. The Court of Rorn entry pg.242 in the 4E FRCG mentions the Dawn Titans history before, during, and after Abeir's split from Faerun. I remember reading some writings of Mr. Greenwood's here somewhere about Primordials and their threat to the Gods and all of Toril. |
"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 11:17:30
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| One more question: are the leShay somehow related to the 2e and 3.5e eladrin? I think the powers of the leShay kind of resemble that of the faerie lords, specially ghaele and tulani. And, not to sidetrack this post, those eladrin can assume elven form, so they could be the ones in Lurath - although I think they would be too powerful to be just hidden in the caves. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 17:46:38
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I don't think so, no. Eladrin are extraplanar beings, formed from the stuff of their plane, just like the slaadi are of Limbo or the baatezu are of Baator. Most likely they come from "unaligned" chaotic good souls passed on from the Prime, though I don't think the "ecology" of upper planes beings was ever detailed to the extent that their lower planar cousins' were.
LeShay, whatever they might otheriwse be, are mortal. Powerful, yes, and old, and from somewhere else, but they aren't planars from the Great Wheel like the eladrin. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 22:22:26
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@Andreken
is this canon and if so what is the source? ...
"The second time gate is “...north of Novularond, shining bright upon Misken’s Peak at Highsummer.” While the Novularond range has been searched repeatedly, adventurers have failed to find the time gate because Misken’s Peak was sheared off by the Great Glacier many centuries ago. The magical portal still exists, but it’s buried beneath hundreds of feet of ice as it’s slowly carried along within the glacier."
and i'd like the link to the homebrew from your quote below if you have it even though you said it was not canon because it sounds interesting ...
"As far as the forming of the sea, I saw a journal or a download doc of an extensive home brew material with maps and information relating to land shifts here somewhere about 4 years ago. It dealt with Damara being covered by water, Galen Mountains, Glacier movements and a dragon war campaign. Not sure any of it was Canon. It seemed more likely very creative speculation."
thanks in advance |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 22:31:19
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| nm about the first question found it in Cormanthyr 2E sourcebook p6 |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 11:42:48
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
nm about the first question found it in Cormanthyr 2E sourcebook p6
Not only there, but first on the Netheril boxed set.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Time Gate of Lurath
