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Jorin Embersmith
Acolyte
USA
48 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 08:56:04
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Greetings again all! You favorite bumbling Dwarf here, with another Realms-teasing question.
So, when a Player Character dies, the inevitable "I call dibs on his boots!" chorus begins. As character death happens frequently....actually, let me check the numbers....
42 character deaths in the last 2 years (we meet once a week).
Anyhow, I think that at some point, an item could become cursed from all the death surrounding it - especially if the deaths were particularly gruesome or foolish.
For instance, there is one particular anklet of dexterity +2 that has been through 9 deaths, 5 of which where quite nasty!
So, my idea is that these items become somehow imbued with anger, pain and despair over time, slowly gaining a curse of some sort.
What do ya think of that?
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Karavarus: I polymorph into a Hydra and let loose a bellowing roar! Is he intimidated?
Me: No, but the female hydra behind him certainly notices you... |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 10:10:47
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Simply put: I agree!
It can be a valid system to avoid having too many items around in the party...
By the way: don't you think that the mortality rate in your games is a bit too high? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 11:45:30
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A PC death at about 40 percent (42/104) per game session is too high.
The PC could be returned to life at perhaps cost of magic items.
The PCs heirs should receive items if unable to be returned to life.
I do not think that a non intelligent magic item would acquire "anger, pain and despair over time", after all some of them might have been around 1000s of years before found or purchased by the PC. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 16:00:20
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I think that the idea is cool, having a magical item gain some of it's dead owner's sentience and become cursed. However, that death rate is pretty darn high. I mean, 42 deaths in 2 years is pretty extreme.
Question, are the PCs being put up against encounters that they can handle? For example, if they're level 10 then going up against a EL of 9-12 shouldn't end up with dead PCs. Just trying to gauge why there's so much death. |
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Jorin Embersmith
Acolyte
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 20:42:59
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Heh. I knew I'd hear cries of outrage and horror at a death rate second only to Hot Shots: Part Deux.
Well, In my very first scroll here, I asked how I should get my players to use strategy of any sort...
This death rate is why! only ONE of these deaths is from an instant-kill (that Druid that was disintegrated)
All the other ones are from perfectly normal combat and other foolish tactics, like not healing between encounters, lighting an overplush bedroom on fire while a PC is fighting on the overplush down bed, mouthing off to Scyllua Darkhope, and....(my favorite). Pit Traps. Yes, in my campaign the humble covered pit trap becomes a devastating implement of doom, causing the PC's to spend literally hours (real time) figuring out what to do, and making so much noise, every monster in 3 modules can hear them!
Seriously, they kill bosses no problem, but those covered pit traps just ruin them.
The first 8 or so deaths are from when low-level PC's were "just 60 XP away from levelling, lets find a Random Encounter!" You know the saying about looking for trouble?
After that, it was all just regular, scripted encounters. Either my players have issues, or Baker, Boyd and Reid are Evil The Likes of Which Hath Ne'er Been Seen. |
Karavarus: I polymorph into a Hydra and let loose a bellowing roar! Is he intimidated?
Me: No, but the female hydra behind him certainly notices you... |
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Jorin Embersmith
Acolyte
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 20:46:25
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Oh, one other point to answer master Diffan's query.
If anything, they are a level over the average level needed, due to my exorbitant granting of Good Roleplaying XP and the occasional bribe of pizza and a ride to school.... |
Karavarus: I polymorph into a Hydra and let loose a bellowing roar! Is he intimidated?
Me: No, but the female hydra behind him certainly notices you... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 22:39:57
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It is always hard to find a balance, the death rate is high. It though really comes down to if the players and you are enjoying the game.
I had one player that enjoyed rolling up new characters, so did not worry much about the health of the current one.
The getting the PCs to use strategy in a large part depends on your players. The PCs are people in the sense of the game and might know more then what their players know.
A player can write up a cautious and intelligent character, however if the player does not act that way when announcing actions for the PC - The PC will likely die.
I however also understand your other thread a little better, the Cleric (Now Warlock) wants to survive more then a few encounters.
From here I can not judge if it is a DM problem or a player problem that so many PCs die. This clearly might be a discussion you might want to have with your players. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 18:08:36
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| I've had players like that. I have had a couple of players who did some of the dumbest things imaginable. One used a guard-turned-necrocarnum zombie (Magic of Incarnum book) as a means to break himself and a fellow player out of prison IN THE FIRST SESSION of a campaign- and promptly got themselve chased out of town by the entire town watch! All this while one of the other players was trying to break them out in a more "subtle" way. If the other two had just waited for their friend to spring them..... and then there was a player who jumped out a third story window of a wizard's tower while being chased by two angry weretiger bodyguards- with the wemics at the front door standing right below him..... Yes, I've had some pretty foolish PC's in my groups too- yet strangely, only one death in 14 years. And that was an arena match that they had been WARNED was to the death, but entered anyway- against a pair of ordinary dire-tigers, with three PC's at level 10-11. Go figure. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 22:04:29
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I would make the argument of "Why aren't these characters getting buried with their possessions? Are they really looting their friends corpses?" But, if death is this frequent it's doubtful some of these characters even know each other, let alone share a bond of friendship.
I think something you're going to need to do in your games is find a series of monsters with reasonably average damage outputs with a lot of hit points themselves. See if your players are picking up on when they're running too low on hit points to stay in a fight. When they start to grasp that (and back out of fights with enough HP to do a withdraw), then you move to more fun stuff. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 22:11:56
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Since it's the Realms we're talking about, I'd have to wonder why a dead PC's relatives haven't come looking for their inheritance. You just don't loot your compatriots' bodies for items and gold, and expect nothing to happen.
Even level 1 PCs have family, and that family would come looking IMO.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 22:57:24
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Have one of the deceased come back as a revenant or some other undead, wanting a particular item back.  |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 01:00:02
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I like the idea of items becoming cursed.
Perhaps the players are also seeing new characters as a way to bringing more items into the group?
They're likely not very attached to their characters.
You may want to enforce a rule that their starting funds are based on the completeness of their character's background. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 01:44:50
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Fortunatly, I'm blessed with good players who don't loot every dead PC body. They typically make sure some of the decessed magical and masterwork equipment are either buried with the body or that the stuff goes to his/her family, guild, church. a charity they're working for or use it to help outfit NPC's who they've aquired along the way.
That's not to say that they won't occassional take some items for themselves, but it's not the loot-fest you describe. Usually the stuff they take are consumables - potions, scrolls, wands and such. But that's just how my players feel about it.
What it comes down to isthis: Are you (by that I mean both you and your players) having fun??? Having fun is the purpose of the game. If looting thier companion's bodies makes the game good for everyone (including yourself), then don't worry about it. Every campaign is different.
However, I suspect from your posts in this thread, this rampant looting is bothering you. If so, the only solution is to talk it over with your players. Open communication has been the key to every enjoyable campaign I've ever run or played in.
If this looting is a problem for you, then talk with your players - outside of actual game play time - and tell your players that this is a problem, that it is making the game less enjoyable for you, and ask the to help you come up with a solution that everyone can agree on.
I'd also certainly talk with your players before you start to have items gain curses just because they've been through too many deaths - especaill when this hasn't happened before. Nobody like the rules being changed without a warning.
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 15:22:36
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| Heck, Aragorn did loot Boromir's cool bracers. On the other hand, they did give up that elf boat. |
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Mystic Lemur
Seeker
58 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 05:07:44
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| They were his anyway, Aragorn being the King of Gondor and all. Boromir was just 'watching over them'. |
"What mattered our lives now, when our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring." -A review of the FRCG ;) |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 19:24:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Since it's the Realms we're talking about, I'd have to wonder why a dead PC's relatives haven't come looking for their inheritance.
Right. You're usually going to have either a will or an informal arrangement about such things. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 19:27:30
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| That is some resilient anklet, don't your magic items never break? |
z455t |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 19:45:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Mystic Lemur
They were his anyway, Aragorn being the King of Gondor and all. Boromir was just 'watching over them'.
I think technically he's really only heir to the throne of Arnor. Getting to be King of Gondor was a legal technicality that Gandalf was exploiting. |
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Jorin Embersmith
Acolyte
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 23:58:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kno
That is some resilient anklet, don't your magic items never break?
Only on fumbled saves, for instance, fumble the reflex save on that fireball, and your nice +1 cha cloak burns away. |
Karavarus: I polymorph into a Hydra and let loose a bellowing roar! Is he intimidated?
Me: No, but the female hydra behind him certainly notices you... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2011 : 12:48:19
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| I still am wondering how much this is a DM problem as opposed to player problem. The death rate is very high. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2011 : 05:13:54
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PC deaths in my campaign tend to fall into one of two kinds:
- PC is utterly and irrevocably overkilled (disintegration, sphere of annihilation, etc). Nothing left to loot. Maybe a wish can return the character intact, if I'm feeling unusually magnanimous.
- PC is merely burnt, zorched, drowned, crushed, torn, mangled, hacked, flensed, and rendered apart in the common fashion.
Sometimes this damages or destroys loot: in fact, I sporadically allow my PCs to sacrifice a magic item of my choosing (armour, weapon, etc), having the death blow wreck it instead of killing them.
Or sometimes the loot emerges unscathed and can be claimed by other characters, like you say. At my table it usually seems to turn out that when things get bad and ugly enough to kill one PC the others are generally quite beat up and would rather retreat than get killed. So the first corpse looters are quite often monsters and NPCs, not PCs.
Obviously, any character who is resurrected (or whatever) will want his/her possessions back. Any character with some kind of will, testament, or agreement will likely want his/her possessions to go to someone specific.
Looting the bodies of fallen comrades is something I'd generally associate with evil-aligned folk. Yes, good-aligned sorts would recover the deceased's gear along with the body. It might be important that the body wears this gear in the afterlife, or is sacrificed, or given to somebody worthy, as ceremony requires*. It might be important that this gear be returned to a rightful owner such as family, elders, order, or church. It might even be necessary or pragmatic for PCs to take some particular magical trinket to use in their Heroic Battle, or at least to prevent it being used against them. It's not unheard of to claim (or trade) some object like a weapon while swearing some sort of solemn oath of blood and vengeance. Desperate situations might require the body be abandoned or desecrated or given a less proper ceremony than desired ... but only evil and immoral sorts would routinely treat their fallen comrades as nothing more than a pile of magic and gold they can loot.
Don't assume the body is buried or entombed.
Religious and social ceremonies might require the body is burned, sunk, or to simply left exposed to the elements; they might also require the body be specially prepared or attired, and might forbid allowing the body to be touched by non-clergy. A worshipper of Tymora might believe the possessions should remain where they fell on/around the body, ready for the next "lucky" adventurer sort to wander by and claim them. A worshipper of Shar might prefer complete disintegration. A worshipper of Mystra might prefer their remains be sent through gates and teleports to unknown destinations. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 30 Jan 2011 05:28:09 |
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A Question of Loot Transfer
