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Bob12123
Acolyte
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 13:12:33
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Sorry if this isn't in the right place. According to divine rank these are the lowest of the divine but I don't understand what they are. I've searched around but could barely find a mention to them. If possible I would like the following questions answered:
- How does one become a quasi-deity?
- What are the benefits?
- Can you exist on the Prime Material Plane?
- Is it like the Chosen?
- Who are some quasi-deities (so far I only know of Tchazza
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 15:41:56
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To answer some of those questions:
1)One becomes a quasi-deity by either a) being sponsored by a Power, b) by being the child of a Power or c) being a very powerful mortal who gains a number of worshipers.
2)Immortality, perhaps a heightened ability score, maybe a few abilities
3)A quasi-power CAN exist on the Prime, and along with demi-powers, are the ONLY deities who can.
4)It depends on the edition you're playing. In short,in 3rd edition, they are entirely different things; in 4th they are basically the same thing.
5)Quasi-deities are also known as hero-deities; a great real world example is Heracles. As the son of a god, but not a god himself, he had superhuman strength but no real 'powers' like true gods do. In the Realms, I would say that there are no doubt many hero deities, but they tend not to get much 'face time', since they tend to be only locally known. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
268 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 16:23:50
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According to "A Grand Tour of the Realms" in second edition campaign setting:
At'ar, Baelros, Earthmother, Entropy, Garagos, Gargauth the Outcast, Gwaeron Windstrom, Hoar, Iyachtu Xvim, Jergal, Moander, Red Knight, Savras the ALL-Seeing, Sharess, Shaundakul, Shiallia, Siamorphe, Tchazzar, Uthgar, Valkur, Beast Cults (The Blue Bear, The Bright Sword, Cult of the Singing Skull, Elrem the Wise Great Worm, Kazgoroth, Lurue, Nobanion, Red Tiger, Tree Ghost, The Cult of the Dragon) and Elemental Cults (Akadia, Ishtishia, Grumbar, Kossuth) are all quasi power.
and
"Quasi-Powers: The quasi-powers are a mixed bag of old gods, demipowers, forgotten deities, and local powers. Each is powerful in its own right, but has not entered the fray as an established deity known throughout the Realms. As a rule of thumb, quasi-powers have the same abilities as a lesser power, and a local god on its home turf can manage the feats of an intermediate or greater power. It should be noted that demipowers are weaker than lesser powers, in cases where a quasi-power is identified as a demipower." |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
Edited by - Asharak on 13 Jan 2011 16:30:53 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 17:12:57
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In 3.5 a Quasi-Power is Divine Rank ZERO.
Which would negate most published gods and such in the realms as being such.
You could say that, perhaps, beings such as Valkyries are Quasi-Powers... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 19:03:57
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The qualities of a quasi-deity (divine rank 0) according to deities and demigods p. 25:
- Not granting spells to follower
- Immortal (Cannot die from natural causes. Do not age, eat, sleep or breathe.)
- One or more ability scores far above the norm of their species
If you need stats for divinities, in that book you can find the rules to define them (pp. 25-53)
Hope it helps!
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 05:26:03
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Arioch is correct, also, the rules were released as part of the SRD available here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#rank0
and here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35
Also for Realms specific info see Faiths & Pantheons p.5-9.
While not specifically dubbed as such, I believe you are correct that Mystra's chosen would count as quasi-deities, as would some of the "chosen" (or seraphs or proxies) of other gods.
Sainthood might be another way to achieve divine rank 0. There was a saint template in the Book of Exalted Deeds and while it didn't mention anything about imbuing divine rank 0, a god (or a DM) could certainly grant such a thing to a saint, perhaps as part of advancing to a higher level of sainthood. There were plenty of saints anointed by Ilmater and other Triad affiliated gods, so there's precedent for that.
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 21:19:06
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The link I had used for quasi-deity stuffs is down, but courtesy of the magic of the internet (i.e. the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine):
http://home.gwi.net/~rdorman/frilond/rul/dm/divinetemplates.htm" target="_blank">Divine Templates: Quasi-Deities. (Candlekeep doesn't seem to like the nested URL much.)
The 1e-2e definition of a "quasi-power" would more or less translate to "weak or local interest demigod" in 3e terminology. Arioch is correct in his citing of the 3.0/3.5 definition, and in generic D&D, they are also termed "hero-deities".
In short, a quasi-deity is an immortal (in the sense of ageless, not in the sense of "invincible") psuedo-outsider with just enough divine gnosis to appear on deific radar; in some settings where only a god can damage or kill another god, being a quasi-deity lets you bypass that hurdle.
The best examples I can give might from Earth's mythology: Hercules/Heracles and Achilles were both descendants of deities who were far above the mortal ken yet still not demigods themselves.
Tchazzar is a good example of a confirmed, statted quasi-deity. The Chosen of Mystra may/may not be, dependent on their personal level of power. Direct, temporary divine emissaries can also be rank 0 quasi-deities. And lastly, off the top of my head, though while not reflected in the game rules, the Bhaalspawn would thematically be considered quasi-deities or hero-deities.  |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 04:59:31
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| Actually, a slight bit of errata here- in RL mythology, both Heracles and Achilles were in fact full demi-gods rather than quasi-gods. (The definition of this is the mortal offspring of a god and a mortal, which they both were.) Heracles was later made a full god by Zeus after he died. Both are listed as demi-gods in the old 2nd ed book "Deities and Demigods, BTW. Just an FYI. As you were, folks.... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 15:47:29
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I would list these among RL quasi-deities: Beowulf, Sigurd, Goliath, Gilgamesh, King Arthur, Merlin, the Oneiroi of Greek mythology (Morpheus, Phobetor, Hypnos, Thanatos, Geras), the greatest Egyptian Pharaohs, perhaps even figures like Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammed. I'm sure most people would disagree with at least some of these, but this list is just meant to be a generally representative gathering of quasi-divine figures.
It's a matter of fine definition. Some of these are "mere" heroes of epic stature, others are great kings and rulers, some are "demoted" demigods, idols, or anthropomorphic personifications, a few have origins D&D might describe as extra-planar, celestial, infernal, or abyssal, some are said to be descended from gods or born as avatars. They are all described (or presumed) as possessing at least one "superhuman" characteristic or ability. They are all described as having a great body of worshippers or followers. They are all remembered and revered throughout the ages. None of them actually has godly stature (although a few like the Oneiroi do possess some supernatural influence over aspects of "divine portfolios"). Basically all of the divine proxies, servants, and agents ("small gods") who are listed throughout mythology but not actually statted out as "proper" deities in D&D terms. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 19:38:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Actually, a slight bit of errata here- in RL mythology, both Heracles and Achilles were in fact full demi-gods rather than quasi-gods. (The definition of this is the mortal offspring of a god and a mortal, which they both were.) Heracles was later made a full god by Zeus after he died. Both are listed as demi-gods in the old 2nd ed book "Deities and Demigods, BTW. Just an FYI. As you were, folks....
From an IRL myth standpoint, I'd agree with you. (Mythological demigod = mortal offspring. Gaming demigod = deity of less power or renown). I'm just trying to couch things in the 3e game terms, as per Bob's original question. In much the same way a "longsword"* in game is not what a "longsword"** IRL refers to.
*A single-handed "arming" sword.
**A hand-and-a-half "bastard" sword. |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
Edited by - Daviot on 16 Jan 2011 19:41:50 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Bob12123
Acolyte
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 15:04:01
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| Well thanks everyone for answering my questions, I understand much better now, and for such a speedy response even if my own reply was not so speedy. |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 08:46:49
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| As a race would Solars qualify as Quasi divine? |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 06:09:40
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
As a race would Solars qualify as Quasi divine?
No - being one of an immortal race does not make one a quasi-deity. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 06:18:25
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The term Quasi-Deities comes from an article Gary Gygax wrote for Dragon Magazine in 1983. Here is his explanation, which was somewhat vague :) :
"When our editors were going over the manuscript for The Land Beyond The Magic Mirror (module GC S8/X2), the question arose: Just who were Murlynd, Keoghtom, and Heward? I replied that they were “personages” — above the status of important characters, by and large, but not quite demi-gods and certainly not heroes. They are, in fact, quasideities, and I have named them such forevermore! In Greyhawk’s World there are quite a number of such, but only Heward, Keoghtom, and Murlynd are currently placed so as to interact with player characters. The inactive list includes Daern, Johydee, Nolzur, Quaal, and Tuerny. Characters of personage status such as Bucknard (NPC), Mordenkainen (my own), Otiluke (NPC), and Tenser (PC), to name but a few, are not as powerful and broadly endowed as are the quasi-deities.
Because “retired” characters will occasionally come into play, and the action can lead to more experience and power, I am presenting the three active quasideities of Greyhawk’s World for DM and player alike to inspect and assess. At least one was once actually a player character, by the way. Using these three as guidelines, it should not prove too difficult for the DM to act to bring very special “retired” player characters, and possibly some of your most successful NPCs too, into the realm of the quasideity. By means of dual-class work, special situations, successful questests, and the completion of defined tasks, the former PCs can be elevated to the new status.
It is very important that quasi-deities be kept in tight control by the DM. Even though they might have once been the characters of game participants, their exalted status now moves them to different realms. Until such time as the campaign has developed sufficiently to allow the free interaction of characters of such power, the DM must control quasi-deities, just as other deities and their ilk are the province of the DM.
All that said, here are Heward, Keoghtom, and Murlynd. Because the personages of Mordenkainen, Bucknard, et al, are actively used or played in my campaign, I cannot give details of their powerand possessions. Suffice it to say that their status is something less than that of the quasi-deities. As usual, if you have pertinent comments, please pass them on to me. I probably will not be able to reply, but all such information is noted and might well affect the course of the further development of the AD&D™ game system! |
Edited by - The Masked Mage on 23 Oct 2013 06:19:18 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 07:03:50
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Yep, I remember that article. Of course, back then, we only had the gods of Greyhawk and the standard powers of the Deities and Demigods Cyclopedia. Now every jumped up entity lays claim to godhood.
-- George Krahos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 19:00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Yep, I remember that article. Of course, back then, we only had the gods of Greyhawk and the standard powers of the Deities and Demigods Cyclopedia. Now every jumped up entity lays claim to godhood.
-- George Krahos
I remember reading it about a decade later when there was a guy at Gencon who was selling EVERY dragon mag (I'm not quite as old as some of the other scribes herein :P) and went broke buying the ones with the good pictures :D. |
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What is a 'quasi-deity'?
