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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 17:33:31
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Hi everybody,
I am right now thinking of implementing a Humanoid ( yes, of course, Goblinoid ;) ) realm in the above mentioned regions.
erlkazar is not "touched" for plans are the river north of their ghost-towns to be the maximum border.
So my question is, which power Groups in the imminent neighbourhood would probably cause the most trouble?
thanks for your opinions.
Year is 1360 DR
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 18:22:31
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| The FR wiki describes Erlkazar and the Cloven Mountains ... warring goblinoid tribes apparently already live there. I can't find any detailed information about the area in my books. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 18:58:15
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I would highly recommend tracking down a copy of the Lands of Intrigue boxed set.
Cheers,
Christopher |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 20:00:11
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thanks to both of you,
but I know the fact that tribes are living there, my question is,w hat would happen if a structured, organized realm of goblinoids would come to live, similar to Holorarar, where the two Ogre mages out of the lands of intrigue set have most likely got the bulk of their hobgoblin forces from with which they started their war / conquest.
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 21:56:59
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Power of Faerun has some info on those Ogre Magi... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2010 : 15:05:57
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@brimstone,
thanks, yes, but I am looking for the infromation stated in my first entry to this topic.
The Ogre Magi came from the small teeth, and the mentioned region is quite a few miles away from it.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2010 : 05:49:34
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The Ogres of Rivenshield patrol the mountains for Erlkazar. IIRC, there is a female Lich living around there, perhaps in the ruins of Dajaan.
That by looking at my campaign map, and not referencing any official sources. BTW, the map here at the keep shows the correct thumbnail, but a MUCH older edition of the map. I could re-post my finished campaign map on DeviantART it if you need it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2010 : 18:23:26
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@markustay
would love to see it, thanks !
alo thanks for the information on the ogres, but are they not patrolling to the south western corner of erlkazar?
I did not know they patrol the whole area. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2010 : 06:26:54
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Strangely, the town of Rivenshield (the Ogres) is listed in Tanistan barony, but it is obviously within the Ahlarkhem barony (and is shown that way on the official FRIA map). There are a few cartographic errors concerning that product (the fold-out maps do not match the smaller map within the Erlkazar sourcebook), so I would just chalk that up as yet another one. It says they patrol the High peaks, which I would assume means the entire range (and why the FRIA places their village nearer to the middle).
I have updated the map, but there appears to be at least three villages that I missed somehow (I have no idea the original source, but they were part of the FRIA update). I will add them tomorrow - its pretty late here - and post the even newer edition then.
I should just re-do this with the one I already laid-out the corrected terrain on, but I'm in the middle of another extensive map project ATM. It would be better for everyone for me to just keep updating this one until I have time to do a brand new one.
Who has read Obsidian Ridge? Someone told me of a dungeon of some sort there, and I need a name and some sort of location (however vague). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2010 : 13:42:03
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It was called the Cellar and it had a deepspawn in it that was aligned with the Twisted Rune.
I asked about it on the WotC boards along time ago. I figure it was made up just for the novel... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 17 Dec 2010 13:42:26 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2010 : 20:35:00
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There was absolutely no indication of where it was? No mountain range, or direction of travel from the capitol?
The Twisted Rune has the vampiress Shyressa dwelling in Dajaan, so it could be near there (or in the ruins themselves).
Thought she was a lich - my bad. IIRC, something happened to her in 3e, but I can't recall any details. 
EDIT: Just noted I have Dajaan improperly placed - it should be more where Saarlik is, which itself should be more west (the official map had it placed wrong as well - it is on the south coast of the Arglander River). I can't believe I keep finding errors after all the iterations of this I have done.
Also, Ed gave me the details of Aralent, but someone (who ever provided Pro-Fantasy with their info) placed it in the 'High valley of Opskur' (anyone know where that valley is from? What source?). HOWEVER, a spelling-error on the larger over-land map in the FRIA spells it Alarent (it is spelled correctly on the smaller, more-detailed map), so I have an 'out' with this as well (I just need to find more room to place stuff!)
I really love this oft-forgotten region of the Realms - it has so many great little details, yet has managed to stay out of mainstream Faerūn lore (for the most part) and is still un-detailed enough where DM's still have a LOT of leeway for their campaigns. And really, both Calimshan and Cormyr are practically right next door - what could be more 'centralized' then that? You have barbarians, Serpent Kingdoms, the Lake of Steam - all nearby. Its perfect. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Dec 2010 20:52:35 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2010 : 00:57:58
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| The Deepspawn is named Clusterfang... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2010 : 12:06:17
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@markustay:
exactly my opinion, but yet they are "far enough" not to worry ( IMHO ) about a few golbinoids "playing around".
Also the region near the Deepwash, south of the big river on the FRCM ( 3,5 e ) seems to have a lot of abandoned towns and the like, and it is mentioned to be "patrolled sparsely" by the local authorities, so this and the mountains behind could be an ideal place for humanoids to gather and establish.
They could travel across the deepwash and trade with the lizards of surkh, have enough trade routs, villages etc around to be in striking range, and with the mountains a good "regroup area" should things become too tense.
@brimstone, is this the deepspawn mentioned in the FRMM ??
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2010 : 12:12:59
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@markustay:
tremendous map!! perfect for my intentions!!
I would place them in the area between saarlik and dajaan, with the rivers east and south east as natural border, so they could also avoid the rivenshield ogres.
You also re-scaled the whole area right? This scale seems close to the one which was used on the maps in the 2nd edition maps, or am I wrong???
and, the "Vale of the Reaver" region, is this populated in any way with fixed settlements or barren area??
This could also be included.
If you are interested, I can send you the amassed "sourcebook" of the "Kingdom of red eyes" as I named it. It is way from being completed, but taking more and more shape, and with the detailed information I am getting here, I willbe able to reduce the flaws and edges dramatically. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2010 : 04:47:12
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I tweaked some of the terrain, but as far as I can recall, this is the scale used in 3e. The problem arises because this region was one of the hardest hit by the 3e map changes (we lost an entire mountain range), so in order for me to make the 1e/2e locales work on the 3e map, I had to do a LOT of shifting around.
I've managed to keep most of the east/west distances the same, but the north/south axis is royally screwed, so don't even try to make sense of it in regards to the 2e maps of this region (or the FRIA). I did the best I could to get everything to fit.
I've added in a bunch of locales I found on the FRIA, and a couple I got from elsewhere (still canon, though), and corrected Dajaan and Saarlik. Also placed 'the Celler' where I used to have Dajaan, but I have no idea how correct that is - it was just easy to place it there.
So The newest version is up, but I still have to wonder at where all those new locales came from - was there a novel series that featured this region? I know some Zhentarrim stuff happened here just prior to the Manshoon wars, but I don't know if any of that was covered anywhere other then in Cloak & Dagger. Maybe in that Tethyr war series? Anyone know? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Dec 2010 04:48:12 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2010 : 12:28:34
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@markustay:
I recall to have the transitions-series featuring the north eastern part, but this you probably know.
also, in some scroll, there is a trilogy mentioned, which refers to Erlkazar quite often and also has a side-plot going on there, but not 100% sure, hope anybody knows a bit more.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2010 : 17:23:52
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Erlkazar - which was supposedly a 'no touch' region left for DM's - had a quintilogy (The Cleric Quintet), and a novel (Obsidian Ridge), and the plot involving Xvim and the Zhents (from Cloak & Dagger) took place all throughout the region that is part of southern Erlkazar. There is also a small mention of it in the Double Diamond series - not bad for a place we were promised would have "no official lore" (kinda like Sembia).
Note to self: If you want to have more lore about a region, tell writers they aren't allowed to write there. Putting a "don't develop lore here" sign on something is akin to putting 'do not touch' on a big red button. A pristine sandbox in a shared-world is just too irresistible.
Considering how many locales showed-up on my FRIA map after I did the update, I have to think that there was something set there - something BIG. I thought it might have been the series covering the war in Tethyr (was that Transitions?), but this seems a bit too far south-east. Were there any novels covering the events of the rise of Iyatchu Vvim in Kzelter? I never read the Trial of Cyric (I can't stand the turd), so maybe in that? If not, I have a feeling there was supposed to be - we have a LOT of locales that were created with no apparent lore, which is indicative of something having been cut.
If it involves Xvim, Wooly would know. HEY HAMSTER! Are you awake? 
EDIT: @Brimstone - Clusterfang is mentioned in the right-hand column (about halfway down) on pg.24 of the Erlkazar booklet from the Lands of Intrigue boxed set. Clusterfang, supposedly, resides beneath Zazesspur, ergo 'the celler' should be in the dungeons of the old capitol of Tethyr, a thousand miles away from the events of the novel, on the Swordcoast.
I'm going to leave it where I have it - Zazesspur is way to the west of my Erlkazar map. It makes more sense there - have I mentioned how much I detest poor research on the part of authors? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Dec 2010 17:49:35 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 02:57:30
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So far as I know, Xvim has had very little coverage in FR fiction. His followers were in the first Lost Gods book, and he puts in an appearance in the third book, but I think that's it for him and fiction.
There's a lot of Xvim's history that really isn't known. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 03:02:32
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Yeah, Wooly's definitely on the mark. Xvim hasn't really received that much page-time in FR fiction. And it seems even less likely, now, in the post Bane's-return period.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 04:08:22
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| Xvim is mentioned a bit in FR6, which might be his first published appearance in Realms canon. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2010 : 07:52:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
EDIT: @Brimstone - Clusterfang is mentioned in the right-hand column (about halfway down) on pg.24 of the Erlkazar booklet from the Lands of Intrigue boxed set. Clusterfang, supposedly, resides beneath Zazesspur, ergo 'the celler' should be in the dungeons of the old capitol of Tethyr, a thousand miles away from the events of the novel, on the Swordcoast.
I'm going to leave it where I have it - Zazesspur is way to the west of my Erlkazar map. It makes more sense there - have I mentioned how much I detest poor research on the part of authors?
Yeah I checked it out. Jess answered my question about the "Cellar" anyways.
quote:
Originally posted by Jess Lebow
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Jess I finished Reading Obsidian Ridge GOOD BOOK,GREAT READ. I have a couple of questions for ya about the Cellar. #1 is it your creation. #2 where in Erlkazar is it at. #3 Who built or created it. #4 What type of monsters(besides Clusterfang and the Helmed Horrors) are in it? The reason I ask is I would like to eventually use the Idea in A Realms Campaign. Thanks.
Brimstone
Hi,
I hope you went ahead and used the Cellar in your campaign already, and that my tardiness didn't slow you down.
The Cellar was in fact my creation. I always envisioned it existing in a pocket dimension, sort of stuck between planes of existence.
I'm not sure who originally built it. I sort of thought that its beginnings were a mystery. By the time it appears in my story it has transformed several times. The first known inhabitant of the Cellar was a very rich man, who lived peacefully, secluded, within its confines for more than half of his life. After his death, the gateway into the Cellar changed hands many times, and eventually it became a sort of labyrinth, meant to protect tremendous treasure through the use of traps and monsters.
As far as monsters for your campaign, I think the sky is the limit. If you can envision the creature living underground, you can probably find it in the cellar. Though, it would have to be pretty tough to survive in such a place.
Hope that helps.
I guess "Clusterfang" found a door that leads to the "Cellar", or the "Cellar" is under Zazesspur. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 29 Dec 2010 07:57:21 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 03:51:28
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So I could assume that 'The celler' is A) beneath Zazesspur, but the gate (entrance) to it is located in Erlkazar, or B) is located in Erlkazar, and Clusterfang moved (after all, we are talking a hundred years later, right?) considering it was a pocket-dimension, its location 'under' Zazesspur makes little sense, and the simplest solution is often the correct one.
It moved, end of story. At least the author researched the realm enough to have used a canon beastie, so Kudos to him for that.
Still curious as to where the shear multitude of just-south-of-Erlkazar locales came from (there are roads and other non-settlement locales I simply could not fit!)
Going by everything I have read, I get the distinct impression that either a LOT of lore was cut from one of the published realms sources, or more likely (IMHO), that a novel or series was planned, and these locales were part of that, but with TSR tanking at the end of the 90's, it was one of many projects that got 'cut'. My guess would be it was a novel centered around the rise of Xvim, given the lore surrounding Fzoul's own rise to power and Kzeltzer. All of those new locales are in the precise area where those events (a military push by the Zhentarrim in the south) took place.
I just don't understand why someone created a road that ran precisely parallel to another already-existing road - considering how those extra locales were lumped-into the FRIA update, and how they are practically on top of other (pre-existing) locals, one might think that whoever created the (un-used) lore for that region didn't bother to check what was already there (only looked at the large campaign setting map). Which is why i get the distinct impression it was for a novel (designers tend to do slightly better research then authors, in-general).
If they only knew how hard they made it for armchair cartographers like me.
Anyway, someday I will re-visit this area - my newer (blank) map of the region uses the 3e terrain, but is far-greater modified to conform better with the 2e geography (plus some other nifty things, like shadowing to add 'depth' to the map). Give me time - I have to finish the Nentir Vale/FR map (which I am thrilled with - can't wait to unveil it), and then I will start to clean-up my backlog of other projects.
My GOD... I've got a 'to do' list!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Dec 2010 09:34:18 |
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kilaen
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 14:59:10
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Release that map already! ;)
I'm planning to put the Nentir Vale in the Erlkazar area just north of the Lake of Steam which I'll be having the Nentir river empty into. The campaign kicks off this weekend so I still have time to alter it. Very curious to see what you do with it. |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 20:04:43
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HEUREKA
I KNEW I HAD SOMETHING
In the 3rd edition FRCS it says, under "Life In Faerun" the "Trade" entry asfollows: "even the fierce goblin tribes of the cloven mountains trade quarried stone, coal and iron with the human lands of the Vilhon Reach"
Thia is a proof, that even goblins and Humans can live along and trade - The Cloven Mountains willbe it so.
Anybody having more canon ifnormation about this, or knows eventually with which specific Human lands these tribes do trade??
Thanks for all replies,
Jakuta KHan |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 20:53:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakuta Khan
HEUREKA
I KNEW I HAD SOMETHING
In the 3rd edition FRCS it says, under "Life In Faerun" the "Trade" entry asfollows: "even the fierce goblin tribes of the cloven mountains trade quarried stone, coal and iron with the human lands of the Vilhon Reach"
Thia is a proof, that even goblins and Humans can live along and trade - The Cloven Mountains willbe it so.
Anybody having more canon ifnormation about this, or knows eventually with which specific Human lands these tribes do trade??
Thanks for all replies,
Jakuta KHan
Being able to trade with someone does not preclude hostile interactions with them, and it also does not mean that the trade goods/money offered by the goblins were acquired thru peaceful methods. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 20:56:28
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@Wooly:
Disbeliever!! ;) If orcs can do it in the north, Goblins can do it in the south
No seriously, would highly appreciate if anybody had a bit more information about this.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 21:44:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Being able to trade with someone does not preclude hostile interactions with them, and it also does not mean that the trade goods/money offered by the goblins were acquired thru peaceful methods.
We buy oil from the Middle-East, do we not? 
And NO, I'm not saying Arabic peoples are orcs or goblins; only that the situation with humanoids in fantasy worlds isn't all that different from RW relationships with certain groups and regions.
In the old source The North, we are shown that the Uthgardt are very warlike and raid everyone, including most human settlements in the region. Yet, we are also shown that certain... unscrupulous... merchants still enter their territory and trade with them.
Greed can overcome a lot of prejudice. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Jun 2011 21:45:03 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 01:43:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakuta Khan
@Wooly:
Disbeliever!! ;) If orcs can do it in the north, Goblins can do it in the south
No seriously, would highly appreciate if anybody had a bit more information about this.
I'd recommend you read the first few chapters of the DRAGONLANCE novel The Doom Brigade. It excellently portrays a setting that sees two antagonistic races -- in this case, draconians and hill dwarves -- existing, for a brief period, side by side in a community for mutual benefit.
It could help to expand upon the general info you have for the goblin/human interaction taken from the FRCS. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 07:21:24
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@wooly:
please, no offense ment here....
It is just for me, the first written and therefore confirmed mentioning of Human Kingdoms trading with goblinoid races.
Of course , evil groups like Zhents, Iron throne etc. all willbe willing to trade with whoever promises good profits, it is just that I never actually RED about it in official FR books etc.
So eventually we ask in another way: Which kingdoms wouldbe the most likely to trade with the greenskins?
For me Erlkazar wouldbe an option - as example. |
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Humanoid realm in Southern Erlkazar / Cloven Mts.
