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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 17:14:54
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| A Staff of the Magi is a far more than a weapon +1. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 07:09:41
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| Was that really needed to be said? I don't believe my point needs more elaboration, in order to not confuse you into thinking that I was equating a Staff of the Magi to a +1 weapon. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 07:50:18
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| Fair enough, Wenin. *I* should have elaborated: a Staff of the Magi is magnitudes more difficult to craft than a weapon +1, most especially under the more difficult "old style" magic-item-creation rules. (Of course, that also doesn't really need to be said. But if impossible/exotic/rare materials are required, especially if they're needed for each individual magical ability of the item, then making a single such staff could be a career in itself. Yes, collecting all the components for a lowly weapon +1 wouldn't require much more than a little quest or two.) |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 07 Dec 2010 07:53:39 |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 15:55:27
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I'm saying that the 3.5 magic item construction rules leaves plenty of room for a GM to still require a character to go on quests to find ultra rare materials to build things like a Staff of the Magi. It is after all a CL 20 item, which identifies it as an near epic level item to create. The amount of gold spent on making a magic item is only to represent the relative cost of the materials needed to create the item. A GM could easily have the players actually collect the materials by hand, and require that they find the correct recipe to create a Staff of the Magi. There is no requirement for a GM to allow for a pile of gold to be dumped into a cauldron, melted, and then easily but slowly poored upon a masterwork staff over the course of a few months.
Hence the ease of crafting a Staff of the Magi is still completely up to the GM.
In the end a Staff of the Magi could be just as hard to make in 3rd edition, as it was in 2nd edition. Cause it all comes down to the GM laying out a series of adventures that are designed with the end result being the character obtaining what is needed to make the Staff of the Magi. In 2nd Edition, it could be covered by a single adventure of robbing a wizard's tower that holds all the materials. =)
Though in defense of the "2nd Edition was harder", it was always the Con drain that made making magic items so damn difficult in 2nd edition. =) I'm glad that's gone, along with the requirement of using the Permanency spell. Huge improvement with just that overall change. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 16:00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I'm saying that the 3.5 magic item construction rules leaves plenty of room for a GM to still require a character to go on quests to find ultra rare materials to build things like a Staff of the Magi. It is after all a CL 20 item, which identifies it as an near epic level item to create. The amount of gold spent on making a magic item is only to represent the relative cost of the materials needed to create the item. A GM could easily have the players actually collect the materials by hand, and require that they find the correct recipe to create a Staff of the Magi. There is no requirement for a GM to allow for a pile of gold to be dumped into a cauldron, melted, and then easily but slowly poored upon a masterwork staff over the course of a few months.
Hence the ease of crafting a Staff of the Magi is still completely up to the GM.
In the end a Staff of the Magi could be just as hard to make in 3rd edition, as it was in 2nd edition. Cause it all comes down to the GM laying out a series of adventures that are designed with the end result being the character obtaining what is needed to make the Staff of the Magi. In 2nd Edition, it could be covered by a single adventure of robbing a wizard's tower that holds all the materials. =)
Though in defense of the "2nd Edition was harder", it was always the Con drain that made making magic items so damn difficult in 2nd edition. =) I'm glad that's gone, along with the requirement of using the Permanency spell. Huge improvement with just that overall change.
I can see that losing the Con drain is an improvement, but I still felt that magic item creation in 2E was more flavorful than it was in 3E.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 16:10:35
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I can agree with that, as 3.5 is kinda like finding the man behind the curtain. It also certainly lowers expectations of there being a lot of effort to make magic items.
My memory maybe completely failing me, or I didn't know of a source, but the recipes to create the magic items were largely absent. Having a list as with the Staff of the Magi, was very rare. It may also be that I played 2nd edition when I was a teenager, with other teenagers.... we just made up stuff. If we wanted a magic item, we just thought it up, and we were done. We never created recipes for our own designs, ignoring the downfalls of permanency. =) As for magic items within the DMG, they were meant to be found, never created. =)
So yeah, to me 2nd Edition magic item creation was a Wizard of Oz like thing. The system itself seemed magical, since it didn't seem to explain the existance of sub-epic magic items. =) |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 00:01:03
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| It also didn't explain very well - given 2E race/class restrictions and such - why wizards would waste so much time filling the pages of the DMG with dozens of varieties of weapons, armour, and other items a wizard simply cannot use. Yes, they might multiclass or be commissioned to craft a two-handed battleaxe or ethereal plate armour or whatnot, but you'd think the vast preponderance of magical items littering the world would be staves, daggers, robes, and that sort of stuff. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 06:02:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
It also didn't explain very well - given 2E race/class restrictions and such - why wizards would waste so much time filling the pages of the DMG with dozens of varieties of weapons, armour, and other items a wizard simply cannot use. Yes, they might multiclass or be commissioned to craft a two-handed battleaxe or ethereal plate armour or whatnot, but you'd think the vast preponderance of magical items littering the world would be staves, daggers, robes, and that sort of stuff.
I don't remember where I saw it, but there was a quote in one of the 2E books that said the best survival method for a wizard was to get some armor, enchant it as much as possible, put it on a fighter-type, and then stay behind him. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 06:23:57
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| Hey, when you're only rolling d4's for hit points you need to hold on to every point of CON you can keep. A big invincible bodyguard won't help if he's impervious to the Fireball that kills you. |
[/Ayrik] |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 07:41:26
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I have decided that if the PC's do their research and
go out of their way for special components that the
Creation Dc is a little less, and the powers incorporated
into the item get like +1 dmg/die or +1 to the Dc for the
save or whatnot. Give your pc's rewards for role-playing
out the process. Lets face it, in the era of min/max for
character creation, +1 per die extra damage doesn't go very far. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Staff of the Magi
