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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 12:28:42
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As a curiosity ... how many other geeks here have worked at an anvil and forge?
(Yes I have. No, I don't do swords, armour, or horseshoes. I did make a knife once, very pretty but could hardly be sharpened enough to slice a banana. I mostly "fix" things which weren't properly machined or welded, or hand-forge little tool bits that will be used for tool machining and welding. Go figure.) |
[/Ayrik] |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 15:22:34
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As a DM I hate it when my players attack the main villian as he tries to converse with or talk to my players when divulging his meta-plot. This is supposed to be the tense moment where he tells them the how's and why's and gives them a chance to make it a quick death to them. And there's always one PC that goes "As he starts to talk, I shoot a beam of light or insert spell/power name here!". It's annoying because normally when a villain is attacked, he's not going to just sit back and laugh if the attack hits. Very annoying.
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
As a curiosity ... how many other geeks here have worked at an anvil and forge?
(Yes I have. No, I don't do swords, armour, or horseshoes. I did make a knife once, very pretty but could hardly be sharpened enough to slice a banana. I mostly "fix" things which weren't properly machined or welded, or hand-forge little tool bits that will be used for tool machining and welding. Go figure.)
Sadly no, but I've always wanted to try it out. There is a course at the local Community College where you can take Blacksmithing as a course but I don't have the time and can't spend the $$ to do it. I did, however, grab a leaf spring from a truck which is said to be pretty good material to make a sword from. It's heavy as hell and slowly rusting in my basement, lol. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 18:04:25
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Hmmphf, heroes just have no respect for quality villainy these days.
They're supposed to tremble in fear/anger/anticipation while listening to the shockingly diabolical monologue, patiently awaiting their chance to declare the usual "You'll never get away with it!" or "You're a madman!" before attacking. But no, no, today it's all rush-rush-rush, rudely drop that NPC faster than a toilet seat, loot the corpse, raid the lair, collect XP, and merrily charge off to the nearest tavern full of lusty bar wenches to begin spending their booty. Then, the next morning, stumble over to the local blacksmith to spend the rest of their gold on some kind of weapons upgrade.
Of course the Hero cannot simply be allowed to abruptly interrupt the all-important monologue. Would James Bond just calmly stand there and listen to the Villain? No, he'd try to instantly paste the Villain with some kind of nifty gadget. So if you want Bond to listen to monologue you've got to immobilize him ... chain him down in a chair and program an industrial cutting laser to menace him where it really hurts ... or plant a big ugly thug with crazy exotic weaponry right in front of him. I offer Arik's Wisdom:- Shameless use of Dangerous Situations and Deadly Traps
Anything that "pins" the PCs; requiring they remain still, carefully balanced, or need to act (and communicate) cooperatively to escape.
Failure to comply somehow equals dice rolls to avoid damage, while patience usually allows them to eventually escape largely unharmed. - The Wall of Expendable Minions
A classic favourite. The PCs must (and usually will) hack-n-slash their way through an unreasonably large horde of faceless hitpoints brandishing a mixture of uninspired melee and missile weapons. This delays them long enough for the Villain to deliver his finest Hollywood monologue. Monologue delivery time is adjustable: additional waves of Expendables can fearlessly charge into battle, while existing Expendables can quickly flee or be dispatched.
A handful of slightly bigger Expendables armed with interesting weapons will appear (to the PCs) to be important minions and divert attention and attacks away from the Villain.
PCs often reach the Villain largely undamaged, unless terribly unlucky or stupid. - Swashbuckling Villains (and Henchmen!)
Dashing (and dare I say, sexy) Villains capable of delivering monologue in the form of Witty Repertoire Whilst Dueling the heroes. An indeterminate number of Henchmen appear a few at a time, just enough to delay but not overwhelm the PC interlopers. En Garde and Riposte! Ha-ha!
Again, PCs typically dispatch the "last" bodyguards without sustaining significant damage. They often spend a few minor spells in the battle. Sneaky PCs will even attempt subtle healing/recovery while enduring the remaining monologue. - Hostages!
Damned right! No trick is too dirty, too cheap, too low, or too vile for the Villain.
Another PC is (usually, though not always) the perfect Hostage. Family, children, loved ones, friends, pets, and sexy NPCs may suffice (preferably emotionally attached to at least one PC, though strangers may suffice).
Most risky, exciting, and effective by far, however, is holding a stolen favourite/valuable possession as Hostage. Just watch the PCs frenzy and scream for blood when you threaten to break the special talking magical toothpick lifted from somebody's pocket.
Of course the Villain must actually be willing and capable of harming the Hostage (at least as far as the PCs can tell). - Information, Promises, Lies
The PCs can't outright slay the Villain because they need him alive to learn some vital piece of information. Maybe the Villain promises them something they want. Maybe (probably) he just lies to their faces. Mwoohahahahaaaa!
(This is much less effective when the PCs can Speak With Dead.)
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[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Nov 2010 18:25:27 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 18:36:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Hmmphf, heroes just have no respect for quality villainy these days.
They're supposed to tremble in fear/anger/anticipation while listening to the shockingly diabolical monologue, patiently awaiting their chance to declare the usual "You'll never get away with it!" or "You're a madman!" before attacking. But no, no, today it's all rush-rush-rush, rudely drop that NPC faster than a toilet seat, loot the corpse, raid the lair, collect XP, and merrily charge off to the nearest tavern full of lusty bar wenches to begin spending their booty. Then, the next morning, stumble over to the local blacksmith to spend the rest of their gold on some kind of weapons upgrade.
Arik, have you been eavesdropping on my campaigns?! That sounds largly what my group does, lol. With how easy you said that, it makes me think that my group isn't the only one thats this way...and whew, that makes me feel a little better.
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I offer Arik's Wisdom:[list]Shameless use of Dangerous Situations and Deadly Traps
Anything that "pins" the PCs; requiring they remain still, carefully balanced, or need to act (and communicate) cooperatively to escape.
Failure to comply somehow equals dice rolls to avoid damage, while patience usually allows them to eventually escape largely unharmed.
Definitly not a bad idea and something I'll probably use in my next adventure. Good looks!!
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Hostages!
Damned right! No trick is too dirty, too cheap, too low, or too vile for the Villain.
Another PC is (usually, though not always) the perfect Hostage. Family, children, loved ones, friends, pets, and sexy NPCs may suffice (preferably emotionally attached to at least one PC, though strangers may suffice).
Most risky, exciting, and effective by far, however, is holding a stolen favourite/valuable possession as Hostage. Just watch the PCs frenzy and scream for blood when you threaten to break the special talking magical toothpick lifted from somebody's pocket.
Of course the Villain must actually be willing and capable of harming the Hostage (at least as far as the PCs can tell).
This is exactly what I'm going to plan for the end-of-adventure BBEG senario. They're going up against a Lich and I was thining along these lines as well. Your welcome at my gaming table any time Arik 
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Edited by - Diffan on 08 Nov 2010 18:37:17 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 19:35:08
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To present a convincing Villain you must be a convincing Villain. Combine your favourite approaches and turn the tables on your PCs ...
After battling through countless armies and obstacles the PCs finally bust down the last door and charge into the Villain's private chambers. Of course this is the Villain's lair, he knows it intimately, he isn't just caught randomly standing in his kitchen but has positioned himself exactly where he feels he has his greatest advantage. Besides, they've made a lot of noise battling their way inside and he's probably been following their progress with spying, scrying, and reports from his guards (or lack thereof). He is basically a spider waiting at the heart of his web.
So he's not at all surprised. He's already holding his Unholy Defiler, his Wand of Agonizing Oblivion is within easy reach, he's had time to cast a few buffs on himself (Invisibility can cause a lot of damage, as can spells which change his appearance into that of an expendable minion, or create a false duplicate of himself, or surround himself with real or illusory allies and traps), and he's got a Power Word or Fumble spell ready on the tip of his tongue. If he's got anybody with him (every Villain always keeps a few extra minions around at all times) then he'll make sure they're buffed and prepared too; everybody's poisoned arrows are notched and aimed at the door, they've got a plan, and they've got their instructions.
The PCs are essentially walking right into an ambush. The moment the first PC walks into the room they're rolling for initiative because the Villain shoots his beam of writhing darkness or insert spell/power name here. Because he's a villainous bastard his spell/power doesn't necessarily cause damage but instead has some kind of sinister effect like poisoning, paralyzing, sleep, or even charm. If the PCs choose to fight from their untenable position they'll suffer badly. The Villain (and his minions) will not chase retreating PCs ... they'll just take the incapacitated one as hostage and start delivering their monologue and demands. If things are magnificently evil then the PCs will run blindly into another ambush or some kind of trap.
I think Charm spells are truly vile. Very low success rates against most PCs, true. But when they work they transform a PC into a willing and fairly cooperative hostage who may even (unintentionally) assist in making the other PCs very miserable, providing information useful for gaining more hostages or counterattacking the PCs at their homes if nothing else.
If the Villain chooses to harass the PCs in their lair then he won't be gentle. He isn't going to stand in the middle of the street for a clean duel. He's going to break into stores and restaurants and homes and he's going to choose times and places where his attacks can do the most collateral damage possible. He'll happily hide in crowds of innocent townsfolk while blasting spells at the PCs into or through other crowds. This way he's surrounded by human shields, prevents the PCs from blasting back indiscriminately, and enrages the PCs. Maybe he'll have his minions nearby, maybe he'll have them snipe at PCs (or other people) from hidden windows. All the while delivering his megalomaniacal monologue and hideous laughter.
The townsfolk can't be too happy with the players after such an event (or multiple events). They or their family, friends, and loved ones get harmed or killed. They won't have any love for people who bring this trouble to their home. They will definitely be hostile if the PCs kill anybody.
Or maybe the PCs live in a guarded and policed city or castle with fortified walls and a large standing army. The Villain isn't a fool; he'll attack only when he is strong and the PCs are weak. Ambush them in the wilderness. Harass them every night as they travel. Hire goons, monsters, and hitmen to hunt them. (A perfect opportunity to avoid Villain decay and introduce significant lesser Villain henchmen.) Plenty of time indeed for uninterrupted monologue. Mwoohahahahaaa! |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Nov 2010 20:15:12 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 23:02:42
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Maybe I should run a TV infomercial, eh?
Did I mention how vengeful a D&D villain can be towards PCs who've successfully thwarted (and slain) him? |
[/Ayrik] |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 01:52:13
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The player who has his fighter decide that the rogue is taking too much time disarming a trapped door in Undermountain and attempts to kick it open.
Same player, who after the party defeats a green dragon in Battledale at the end of a gaming session, sends me an email before I even get home asking that goggles of seeing are in the treasure. Of course there are goggles in the treasure, I write back, knowing that he'll put them on without waiting for them to be identified. After some explanation of the effects of the goggles by me, he sends an email out to the group "guys, don't touch any of the treasure, some of it's cursed". |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 02:05:04
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| Selfish PCs who backstab and betray each other. Entertaining but tricky and treacherous campaign style; can strain friendships when players suffer from "DM favouritism" or "unfair" attacks (even though they'd probably do the same themselves, given a chance). Blatantly heavyhanded railroading prods to enforce PC cooperation against a common threat are constantly needed. Playing or DMing these sorts of campaigns is an interesting indulgence, but rarely tenable for longterm play. |
[/Ayrik] |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 02:55:30
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| I don't have players, is that a valid gripe? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 07:51:27
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| I have too many. Want some of my extras? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 08:23:30
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| I don't want them after you've already broken them Arik, or do I? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 09:26:05
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Sure ya do! They're a little bit groggy, though. And won't ever shut up about Monty Python, Tolkein, quantum physics, industrial rave mixes, computer tech, every show or movie ever played on the sci-fi channels, other RPGs, unattainable hot women, martial arts and medieval manliness, the relative merits between beers ... a few are long-time MMORPG addicts ...
I can't really take credit for breaking them; they just came that way. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 22:36:45
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| I got one player that can't stop talking |
z455t |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 22:49:12
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| I got the other player that doesn't talk |
z455t |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 04:23:45
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The kind of player the DMG describes as a "Watcher"?
The best players are the ones who explore all the different "motivations" during gameplay; over time they become adept at each role and evolve into multi-motivated gestalt players ... If they'd only just shaddup about Red Dwarf at inopportune moments, very distracting, always makes me (the DM) want to participate in manly geekouts.
I'd like to offer one common player type who is missing from the DMG descriptions:
The Nerd
The Nerd is a social dichotomy: his intellectual mastery of abstract esoterica is both barely tolerated and deeply revered by his peers.
The Nerd typically views D&D as a mechanistic construct which can somehow be logically "solved"; he will tend to learn and memorize the rules quickly and apply them in creative ways. He can play D&D for any number of reasons, but is usually attracted to the "simulation" and social interaction aspects.
A fundamental tenet in the psychology of all Nerds is understanding that they are unswervingly fanatical about seeking opportunities to demonstrate their vast knowledge and expertise. Nerds can never resist such opportunities and tend to live for any moments of accomplishment and recognition such demonstrations bring. Conversely, Nerds tend to become quite agitated, even sullen, whenever their knowledge is challenged, inapplicable, or simply proven wrong.
Engage the Nerd by:
Assigning him challenging and time-consuming equations, riddles, and logic puzzles to figure out.
Describing game and setting elements through liberal use of terminology drawn from science and science fiction.
Creating in-game opportunities for his character's knowledge to shine.
Showing him pictures of women.
Don't let the Nerd:
Remain "mentally idle"; he will naturally begin incomprehensible and curious tasks which distract other players.
Relentlessly barrage the other players with terrible puns.
Use the words Star Trek, Star Wars, or Star Gate for more than one sentence.
Dominate or ignore the other players when situations arise where his character's knowledge is important. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Dec 2010 05:17:11 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 07:05:42
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| "Break" what? The rules, the game, the group, the fun, the DM's expectations of "fairness"? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 13:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The kind of player the DMG describes as a "Watcher"?
I did not read that part of the DMG, the player did start talking once when his ranger's (justifier kit) squirrel died, then left. |
z455t |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 16:16:15
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| Squirrel died. Sorry, I can't help chuckling at that. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 10:32:45
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Powergamer/Slayer type? Plays the game to "win" ... plays MMORPGs does he? Views D&D as a game of accumulation? Roll player ... you can probably hold his attention with combat, especially if you allow some visceral wanton dismemberment to be described. You might have to give this player something "special" (big axe, whatever), something with raw combat bonuses of course ... bonuses that (at least when certain conditions are met) can make his character "more powerful" than his peers. If the boat anchor is (in his mind) valuable enough to treasure and protect then he will adhere himself to the (one) character who wields it. It may take a while, but once he likes his character you can wean him off the prop. Then again, he may simply lose interest the first time you state it's inappropriate to attack indiscriminately, or the moment he sees another PC has something "better". Whatever you do, don't hand him charged items, he'll blast before he hoards and cares only about what's written on his character sheet, not the world beyond.
Or just keep loaning him strings of NPCs, giving the explanation that this is necessary for everyone else to enjoy continuity of story (ie, main characters not randomly appearing/disappearing). Sometimes he gets to play a strapping barbarian war machine. Sometimes he gets to play a little girl. I wouldn't recommend giving him area-effect spellcasters, since this sort of player takes pride in excessive collateral damage.
Have a tête-à-tête, establish "boundaries". Or have a player do it for you, manly bonding beer talk, that sorta thing. Maybe your game is just too "soft" for this player and you need to accomodate him by throwing some grit and gore into the mix. Maybe he's just a socially inept ass and you (and your groups) would be better off without him. If your players are mature enough, you might "volunteer" one to take the breaker under his wing as a reformation project. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Dec 2010 10:34:30 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 04:39:57
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| Sadly, this is the guy I mentioned earlier who has ADHD. He's not socially inept (though his list of medical problems both physical and mental is quite literally a mile long), but he does get impatient and like to hack/bash/blast his way through most obstacles or situations. He once used a necrocarnum user (Magic of Incarnum from Unearthed Arcana) to turn a prison guard into a sort of zombie to break a fellow PC out of jail during a "visit". Got the entire prison up in arms, and then the town. Needless to say, the entire party got chased out of town, and it ruined a great plot-hook I'd spent hours working on. His next PC was a gnome illusionist. Fine, no big problem there- until he took a spell that supposedly creates a bunch of phantom fighters to take down an ancient dragon in less time than it took me to create the battleground. (Inside her lair, she was ploymorphed in the guise of a "virgin sacrifice" on an altar to Tiamat, with an illusion of her true form behind it.) Instead of wasting his spells on the illusion like I'd planned, that one gnome took most of the fun out of the fight with that spell, and left half the party with nothing else to do. Don't have a game group currently, but he was my biggest headache at the time. He frankly never even needed powerful items, because he always found a way to do outrageous amounts of damage with whatever abilities his PC had. thankfully, the only powerful item the gnome he played got his hands on was a Wand of Wonder- had some amusing results from that one. I intentionally gave it to him because I knew it would only be of limited use. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 15:42:11
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Alystra, your problem sounds like an inability for him (and/or you) to compromise an equable social interaction. Not something that can be fixed with rulebooks. 
You and this player (and your other players) must determine what is dissatisfying about gaming with him in a social context. Your playstyle and/or his playstyle might need to be changed to accomodate a better situation. If the incompatibility is too great, or he insists on being actively disruptive, then you might (sadly) be forced to exclude him from your gaming rather than force yourself (and the rest of the group) to endure an unenjoyable game.
I've experienced similar problems in the past and tried a few approaches (with varying success) ...
It might just be time for a break or a diversion. From time to time D&D just gets stale. Or everybody gets all excited by something cool they see in some new novel or rulebook and they just desperately want to try it all out.
Perhaps just put your campaign on hold (without any regard for "where it is" at the moment) and surprise your players with a game session (or two) spent in an entirely disconnected "RPGA style" setting; using entirely new characters (at any level, noob or extremely high*) and some "new" part of the world the PCs have never (or are unlikely to ever) visit, a one-shot disposable module which serves no purpose at all beyond providing a few afternoons of fun. Let the players try out the different classes and magic items they really lust for, have no real concern about their actions changing the "canon" of your main Realms campaign, don't even be concerned about keeping consistent game rules across worlds, just make up whatever you want on the fly; it doesn't even matter if they "destroy the world" or run amok like raging horny beasts or suffer from epic (or treacherous) TPK or PvP fail; they're not very attached to these characters anyhow and will probably not carry much of a grudge after they cool off. It also doesn't even have to be the Realms, or D&D, or even have to be any sort of RPG or gaming activity; try ice hockey, chess, jello wrestling, invite strangers into the group, whatever. You'll find that each of the players will naturally talk about what he/she remembers as the most fun or exciting moments of play, perhaps for weeks afterwards (no need to prompt them, nor intimidate them with any sort of "serious" interview/interrogation/debriefing) ... listening to what your breaker says (to you or to his friends) will tell you a lot about what he wants. Maybe you'll be able to discover a way to accomodate him that's not incompatible with your own plans.
You can also try letting another player, even the breaker, DM a little. Perhaps in a disposable quickie "campaign" like above. Your other players might have excellent elements in their DM/social styles for handling the breaker which you can observe and steal/adapt for your own nefarious use. The breaker himself will naturally dictate exactly the sort of gaming style and setting that he prefers, plus he might appreciate more about the "behind the scenes" effort you put into your game and why things are the way they are - even if he fumbles the ball and DMs a lousy day that everybody hates. (If he DMs then let him be DM, don't DM for him or dictate his decisions any more than the other players can, don't give him any "easy" advice, make him look it up, put him on the spot for making calls, let him sweat it out.)
Don't play favourites. Ever. It doesn't matter who the favourite is, the other PCs will grind their teeth and judge you for it and whine about it constantly (even if not to your face) and this will greatly shape their impression of you and your game.
* Quick'n'dirty. Provide them with a complete list of books, races, classes, etc that are allowable. Constrain them to standardized characters; don't allow meticulously cross-referenced twenty-page character dossiers. Make sure they have a name and about one little paragraph of background, simpler is better. When they question complexities or ask for some particular exception then just hold a quick on-the-spot vote (with DM as tiebreaker) between players. If they don't have their characters done and ready to play before, say, a one hour timer goes off then they get stuck with whatever pregenerated NPC you assign them. The idea is that you're not spending all day on character generation; you don't care about errors or "unallowable" things and are lax on your normal requirements; you want to spend your time playing the game, not doing bookwork.
What I've done in the past is hand out "prizes" worth diminishing amounts of gold/XP/stuff as the PCs "race" to completion. Once they're done they're done and they turn their sheets over to me; no further changes permitted, too bad. "Group prizes" handed out for "beating the clock" milestones help as well, since they encourage idle players to assist the slowpokes. A little bit of unsophisticated kick-in-the-door and ridiculous Monty Hall just adds to the excitement and maintains a faster-paced gaming momentum.
An interesting result is that these "disposable" diversions can overtake the "main" campaign for a while, or sometimes be cleverly merged into it, or even replace it entirely. They can also be revisited (or at least the characters can quickly be "recycled" or traded around or Polymorph Into NPC) from time to time. It gets some mileage out of those dusty "useless" modules, it gives the regular DM a break (hey, I wanna play too!), and it gives the players some different candy to munch on. An easily distracted ADHD-type of player might require this sort of constant variety and, over time, respond by becoming more attentive to his characters and their surroundings.
That's about all I can offer. The best players are generally friends (or at least generally friendly) and they're willing to "work" at having fun together (the brats have too much fun). Maybe your breaker is just not a good fit for your group. Maybe he can be salvaged. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 06 Dec 2010 16:52:53 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 22:14:40
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Good ideas, Arik, but it's all water under the bridge now, since I've moved and no longer have a group. Interestingly, it's left me with more time to focus on world-development....
I wouldn't say the guy was entirely disruptive, but it DID take a lot of time out of playing to have to roll up another PC every other session or three. The problem was that ALL his characters were pretty much "disposable". He'd just get bored with his shiny new PC after he had turned it into a D&D version of a "Superman" (read: unkillable powerhouse) character, usually with little thought to how or even IF it fit into the campaign world/area/culture. (I don't use the Realms, actually, but a HB world I've spent years detailing and mapping, complete with gods, calendar, celestial phenomena, ecology, and various cultures and races) I eventually had to instate a rule that players could not bring in a new PC unless the old on was killed or otherwise legitimately taken out of play. It solved most of the problem. It was just to much to try to keep up with who was playing what when people wanted to change characters in the middle of the game because they saw something nifty in a rulebook. And prevented some of the headaches of trying to tailor the game to a shifting party. He wasn't the only one guilty of "PC-morphing", just the most frequent one. now my biggest problem is what to do with all those PC's left sitting around in the world with nothing to do. Hm... I'm sensing a visit to my PC retirement village, called "The Community" in the near future. Incidentally, my hubby now cringes at the phrase "No one leaves the Community" after my second game group had a jaunt into that locale. sometimes, being DM is it's own reward..... }:P
I also tend to do most of my adventures from scratch, with little if any use of standard modules. The dragon mentioned earlier was an exception, as she and most of her minions were taken straight from Red Hand of Doom with just a little alteration. My best adventures tend to be those I create myself, though that one went fairly well- at least up until the battle with the dragon that fell flat. I think it just suffered from a lack of any real way to compensate for his pulling out the stops to be the uber-hero, and forgetting that everyone else wanted a crack at her too. i've done one-shots, and even molded them into the main campaign, but it's primarily the "flavor of the week" mentality that was causing the problems. Combine that with a PC-breaker, and you've got a difficult player to work with under the best of conditions. I didn't want to railroad the party into anything, although I do have my "Yodagnome" godly avatar that occasionally gets used to nudge a party back on track when they spend too much time dickering around in town. (He looks like dungeon Master from the old cartoon, and talks like Yoda. And turns up in some truly bizzar places. Usually with cryptic remarks and a few random fourth-wall breaking comments. So far, everyone who has encountered him loves him. Or at least gets a laugh out of him.)
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The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 23:02:37
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I would've suggested a "musical chairs" player rotation, everybody gets a random character (PC or NPC) each session for a while. Or letting breaker pull his character du jour from a "stable" of stock NPCs who come and go but remain generally consistent/interchangeable. Or letting breaker play more than one character (though I thought it better to not suggest any of these, since your breaker can hardly maintain a single character properly).
I have a "The Big White Board Of The Gods", upon which house rules are scribbled and rescribbled in washable markers for all within the group to see and openly admire. One small section of the rules which address PC death:
A player cannot make a new character unless his existing character has died, retired, or been removed from play. Replacement characters will start with sufficient XP to place them at the midpoint of one level below that of the lowest level in the surviving player group (unless the handsome and almighty DM decrees otherwise). Newly generated or imported characters are subject to complete DM scrutiny/editing/revision before being introduced into play. Please have a spare character ready to minimize interruptions. You may be assigned an NPC or temporary character "to fill the gap" before your character is introduced to the party, or your dead status is fixed; you may be penalized if you attempt to interact with living characters while you're dead or absent.
This written-long-ago section of the house rules has served our group fairly well; the XP/level rule addressed a problem we had with a certain (now gone) player who kept "falling on his sword" (or more accurately, Fireballing himself and everyone nearby) so he could make a new character any time he didn't like some problem with his existing one.
lol, about a quarter of TBWBOTG clarifies which options are used and not used from various core rulebooks, plus a mixture of house rules which need stated clarification. And about half of it is the ever-changing "Hall of Glorious Deeds" ... maximum damage inflicted with a single hit, maximum damage inflicted in a single round, maximum damage inflicted with a single spell, maximum number of large body parts cut off in a single encounter, highest NPC level successfully intimidated/bluffed/seduced, most damage survived in a single attack, longest sprinting distance chased by monsters, most dwarven ales consumed before unconsciousness, most gold wasted on nothing in a single night, etc etc ... ah, you get the idea. Little (and increasing) on-the-spot XP awards are handed out to everybody each time a record is broken (to all players, double tap to the victor). It encourages a little friendly/stupid/fun competition and surprisingly draws shy/unconfident players into more active roles. Plus the players tend to attentively track odd details for me and it helps suck a little of their gold away. Equally popular and useful has been my "XP jackpot award" which climbs as various milestones are reached and is awarded to (or divided between) whomever accomplishes some arbitrary goal first ... a big tangible "reward" which can lure the stray PCs toward the right path. Note that I've always handed out individual XP (to characters) and party XP (for them to all to divide/allocate among each other whichever way they agree, sometimes helps nudge characters over the line or pay back their "debts" to each other).
Yodagnome.
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[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 06 Dec 2010 23:59:50 |
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Gripe about your players
