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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 03 Oct 2010 :  06:07:10  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic

I happened to visit this site: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71104

They got an interesting topic there:

quote:

from Dorizzit

I decided to post this thread after an argument that me and my friend over who would win a fight between Pug and Gromph. Here are the rules:

-The battle takes place in an area around one thousand feet square. The terrain is not overly difficult but it isn't totally flat. It automatically expands (but not contracts) if one of the combatants would be put at a disadvantage by the size.

-Both combatants have any equipment they would regularly equip themselves with if they new they were going to be fighting a worthy opponent.

-Neither combatant can use the services of any minions or allies.

-Neither combatant has the element of surprise or superior knowledge; both are warped in to the arena 50 feet away from each other with the knowledge that their opponent is a powerful magician.

-Both combatants are well rested and at the peak of their power.

So, what are peoples thoughts? Who would win?




Here's a interesting reply to which I agree.

quote:

from Emperor Tippy

If we are going Pug at the height of his power then he wins hands down. He has reversed time back to before the beginning of time to get out of a trap.

Pug is said to be more powerful than Marcos the Black, and that guy was well on his way to ascending to god hood and becoming the god of magic.

Think Epic Level caster, in D&D terms Pug would be around level 50 gestalt wizard//cleric.



Feist said that Pug really is more powerful than Macros. To think that Marcos is like Larloch, and Larloch could undoubtedly easily crush Gromph, then I say Pug (who might be as strong or stronger than the Great Unknown Lich) could do the same.

For Pug to win, though, I think it's important to note that his focus should not be divided and that he should not express too much confidence of his superior strength two things Gromph could very well use to his advantage. For those who already read At the Gates of Darkness, there is a scene near the end when Pug was so distracted by his concern for Magnus (he knew sooner or later he'd have to watch his son die, as he did when Miranda and Caleb died) that he didn't even sense James's approach. James was using his cloak of invisibility. But even so, Pug should have sensed a presence of magic so close to him. Had Jim been an enemy, he could have killed Pug.

So, cunning as he's always been, if Gromph uses all manner of distractions/tricks to full advantage, perhaps superior power alone will cease to matter; perhaps he'll win.

What do you think?


Every beginning has an end.

Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 03 Oct 2010 :  11:30:26  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think in Midkemia wizards tire out pretty quickly, if Pug was allowed to study the Weave a bit, he'd crush Gromph, Gromph is hardly the most arcanely talented in his world.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 03 Oct 2010 :  12:58:57  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I don't think they tire out easily. It depends what exactly they're using their magic for. In 'At the Gates of Darkness,' Pug and Magnus were able to drive the demons back for several hours and still had more than enough strength to banish Belasco. But when what the Midkemian wizards undertook required too much magic use, then they would easily tire out. Just like what happened to Pug in that same book after opening in mere seconds a rift from that volcano-infested world to their own world; and also in 'Magician' after closing a huge rift that took 20 (if I am not mistaken) Great Ones to open and maintain.

However, as I already mentioned, perchance Gromph can simply rely on his cunning to win the day. Also, I'd like to mention that Pug is hardly an expert in demon lore; while Menzo's archmage is rather fond of meddling with the creatures from the Nine and the Abyss, which he could summon for aid.


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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
909 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2010 :  12:28:27  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Feist could be mistaken too ;)
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2010 :  15:08:31  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Hmm, I am not sure if I'd put it that way. He's the *creator* of Pug and Midkemia. And the creator is always right---well, Ed always is when it comes to Realms lore.


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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2010 :  16:34:59  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Feist is inconsistent in his work

Pug to me is like Khelben, the Conclave of Shadows and the Moonstars, now if the Moonstars had a secret base in the Sorcerer's Isle near Phlan
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2010 :  15:58:27  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't recall scenes from any of the novels in the Riftwar Cycle that show Feist's inconsistency in portraying Pug. Are referring to some other inconsistency?

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